Corona Virus

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, oxford blue said:

Opinion polls to date have shown Conservatives around they were at the General Election. I hope they would agree they have made mistakes so far eg not shutting down quickly enough (and I was wrong there - i agreed with them, but hindsight shows we would have been better to lockdown earlier.)).

 

But not being able to see family? Can anyone agree with this? Many people have not seen family - let alone touched - for too long. This must be changed. It is crazy we could be very close to family in the workplace - or on public transport (particularly for London Underground users) but can't see them other than outside the home. I hope a government representative explains the logic(!) in this.

 

I don't often agree with Piers Morgan, but I can't disagree with anything in this article - and is better written than I could manage! (Although he is paid for his thoughts...)

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8307337/PIERS-MORGAN-Boris-Johnsons-shameful-mixed-messages-cost-lives.html

But aren't you putting them, yourself and others at risk? I totally get the point about mental health problem, but I do not see what the solution is without potentially cause an alternate problem (potentially) 

[Lionator]

30 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

I have it on, and that is not what I saw and heard.

Maybe I better take my blue glasses off!

That's funny, I've got my red ones on!! His attitude to Blackford was a disgrace though, probably reflective of the complete breakdown in relations between the countries/parties.

[Voll Blau]

34 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

I have it on, and that is not what I saw and heard.

Maybe I better take my blue glasses off!

Yeah, you really ought to...

 

Casting off some of Starmer's points on the practicalities of the new advice as "hypotheticals" (when real people are actually having to make decisions based on it within the next 36 hours - if not already) and asserting his full faith in "Great British common sense" is not going to fill many people with confidence that this was a well thought through move.

 

Why can't he just drop the bluster and rhetoric for once in his life and give people the serious, pragmatic answers they need? That's been the most disappointing aspect of his leadership through this for me. The vast majority of people are perfectly willing to accept the difficulty of the challenge he's faced - and all bar the most hardcore of his detractors will have sympathised with him on that to some degree - but there just seems to be little recognition on his part that a departure from his usual style may be needed from time to time.

Edited 11 May 2020 by Voll Blau

[Lionator]

Just now, Voll Blau said:

Yeah, you really ought to...

 

Casting off some of Starmer's points on the practicalities of the new advice as "hypotheticals" (when real people are actually having to make decisions based on it within the next 36 hours - if not already) and asserting his full faith in "Great British common sense" is not going to fill many people with confidence that this was a well thought through move.

 

Why can't he just drop the bluster and rhetoric for once in his life and give people the serious, pragmatic answers they need? That's been the most disappointing aspect of his leadership through this for me. The vast majority of people are perfectly willing to accept the difficulty of the challenge he's faced -and all bar the most hardcore of his detractors will have sympathised with him on that to some degree - but there just seems to be little recognition on his part that a departure from his usual style may be needed from time to time.

This is the point, I don't think anybody expects perfection. It's an unprecedented situation and there will be failings. That's fine. Credit is also deserved when it's due, the economic response from the Chancellor was on the whole very good. 

[brucey]

 

[yorkie1999]

4 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

For anyone inclined to feel that we're mostly through this crisis and can loosen up quickly, I'd suggest looking at these graphs.....

 

Specifically, look at the 2nd and 3rd graphs: Daily New Cases & Active Cases:

- UK: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

- Germany: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/

 

As you'll see, we're in a massively different place from Germany:

- UK: "Daily new cases" plateaued, drifting down slightly but still high; "active cases" still rising, now almost 200k

- Germany: "Daily new cases" fallen to less than 10% of peak figure; "active cases" fallen to a quarter of peak figure - and a tenth of the UK figure at 20k

 

If you're saying to yourself that Germany is the best case in Europe, look at France, Italy & Spain. Their graphs aren't as good as the one for Germany but are following a similar trajectory......unlike ours.

One thing i don't understand with these graphs and the data used. Whenever i see the UK listed, recovered is always n/a, so if there isn't any data for recovered, how can they determine how many are active and consequently the R value and if there is data available, why not publish it.

[fuchsntf]

44 minutes ago, joachim1965 said:

This statement sums up your ignorance, if you think people with mental health issues only need to see family because it will cheer them up then I have no response that I could give you that would make any sense to you, put the TV on and watch cbeebies.

Why should anybody watch Cbeebies,when we have a comically entertaining ...TV Parlament sessions..??

Edited 11 May 2020 by fuchsntf

[Voll Blau]

20 minutes ago, Lionator said:

This is the point, I don't think anybody expects perfection. It's an unprecedented situation and there will be failings. That's fine. Credit is also deserved when it's due, the economic response from the Chancellor was on the whole very good. 

 

Yep, completely agree.

[Manwell Pablo]

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-britons-now-told-to-wear-face-masks-on-public-transport-heres-how-to-make-one-11986567
 

Well nice to see the PPE problem has been solved, sheer brilliance.

 

😂 Jesus Christ 

Edited 11 May 2020 by Manwell Pablo

[Alf Bentley]

10 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

One thing i don't understand with these graphs and the data used. Whenever i see the UK listed, recovered is always n/a, so if there isn't any data for recovered, how can they determine how many are active and consequently the R value and if there is data available, why not publish it.

 

It seems they did start off publishing a recovered figure but stopped due to poor data quality: https://www.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/news/statement-from-the-office-for-statistics-regulation-covid-19-update/

 

"In our discussions with producers of statistics, we have seen a commitment to continuously improve the information provided to the public. Following these discussions, there have been improvements to provide greater clarity, including:

[...] cessation of publication of a “patients recovered” figure by Public Health England because of data quality limitations".

 

By definition, I suppose the R value must be approximate as the figures on infection rates are approximate due to playing catch-up with testing?

I suppose statisticians have clever ways of combining data from different sources to calculate a fairly accurate estimate of R value from multiple data sources, even if they all provide only partial info? 

 

[Jon the Hat]

5 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-britons-now-told-to-wear-face-masks-on-public-transport-heres-how-to-make-one-11986567
 

Well nice to see the PPE problem has been solved, sheer brilliance.

 

😂 Jesus Christ 

This isn't the PPE problem, this is reducing 95% of transmission by stopping people coughing over others on the train.  the PPE problem is that if you are around those with the Virus, and performing invasive procedures, you need the FFP3 grade masks, which stop aerosol particles, which a piece of cotton over your mouth won't do.

[yorkie1999]

8 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

It seems they did start off publishing a recovered figure but stopped due to poor data quality: https://www.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/news/statement-from-the-office-for-statistics-regulation-covid-19-update/

 

"In our discussions with producers of statistics, we have seen a commitment to continuously improve the information provided to the public. Following these discussions, there have been improvements to provide greater clarity, including:

[...] cessation of publication of a “patients recovered” figure by Public Health England because of data quality limitations".

 

By definition, I suppose the R value must be approximate as the figures on infection rates are approximate due to playing catch-up with testing?

I suppose statisticians have clever ways of combining data from different sources to calculate a fairly accurate estimate of R value from multiple data sources, even if they all provide only partial info? 

 

That makes sense. Can't collect the data accurately, so just don't collect it.

[Alf Bentley]

1 minute ago, yorkie1999 said:

That makes sense. Can't collect the data accurately, so just don't collect it.

 

Tbf. they said they stopped "publication", not "collection". Maybe they still collect data but don't deem it good enough to publish - but can combine it with data from other sources for other purposes, such as estimating R value? 

[Manwell Pablo]

10 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

This isn't the PPE problem, this is reducing 95% of transmission by stopping people coughing over others on the train.  the PPE problem is that if you are around those with the Virus, and performing invasive procedures, you need the FFP3 grade masks, which stop aerosol particles, which a piece of cotton over your mouth won't do.

Clearly a satire post. But  I’m sure the DIY masks will do a grand job 😂

Edited 11 May 2020 by Manwell Pablo

[Tuna]

 

[CosbehFox]

57 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Why can't he just drop the bluster and rhetoric for once in his life and give people the serious, pragmatic answers they need?

Like when he waffles on about a moment in Greek mythology to make himself look really intelligent
 

Used the Persephone as a comparison to the UK. Persephone had to endure six months in the underworld before it could rebuild.......

 

I sense a slight sea change over the last 24 hours. It’s not like every day you get Phil and Hollie on This Morning being critical of a government 

Edited 11 May 2020 by Cardiff_Fox

[KrefelderFox666]

On seeing family:

 

Everyone has different situations, some might be alone or love to be locked in a house playing video games without seeing family or friends, or simply like being alone locked away. Some people live with  large family (generally ethnic minorities or foreign nationals from Eastern Europe), so is that why they are seeing large numbers of cases? Or are they just not careful enough. What really is the difference between living in a house of 10 and 5 households of couples joining together for meeting up (assuming they all still do the same things, go the same places)? Nothing.

 

There are people who are very close to their family, for who this is hard. There are people like myself who have young children and they are finding it extremely hard not seeing grandparents/friends/going somewhere that isn't the house or garden. This could potentially affect their ability to learn and grow up properly if taken too long, not good for anyone's brain letalone young children.

 

The biggest thing is the fact you can go to a park and keep your distance to meet family members, but you can't go into an open space around either household, front/back garden (even when not needing to go in/through the house). That makes no sense. Lots of people will now be going to public places and mixing with other households they are not even interested in.

 

Driving places:

 

This is the biggest bullsh1t of them all. Technically, you could drive from Newcastle to Devon just to get nice weather and see the beach.

 

Holiday Homes:

 

People can drive far away, but they can't go to their holiday homes. Again, why? Whether they spend their time at home or in a holiday home (assuming it is their's and they do not mix people in it) shouldn't make a difference.

[Mike Oxlong]

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Edited 11 May 2020 by Mike Oxlong

[murphy]

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Edited 11 May 2020 by murphy

[StanSP]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

This is the point, I don't think anybody expects perfection. It's an unprecedented situation and there will be failings. That's fine. Credit is also deserved when it's due, the economic response from the Chancellor was on the whole very good. 

Calling out those failings here though you get labelled as point scoring .

Agree credit is deserved too - I think everyone was very taken in by what Sunak said when he first came about and mentioned the furlough stuff, the economic effects etc... 

 

But that's the difference isn't it? Rishi was clear, concise, specific and articulate. 

Boris is anything but and is more bang fists on table, can only speak in waffle and bluster and says a lot of words without really saying anything. The go-to for Boris and his ilk is to speak in rhetoric and clichés... 

[Arkie Bennett]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

This is the point, I don't think anybody expects perfection. It's an unprecedented situation and there will be failings. That's fine. Credit is also deserved when it's due, the economic response from the Chancellor was on the whole very good. 

A Chancellor talking about giving money to people is always going to come across well.

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

1 hour ago, brucey said:

 

This is the most concerning bit for me, and hence why the advice is so unclear.

 

If you can't work from home go to work, but we're still in a high alert situation. Common sense would appear to be dont go to work based on these statistics and youre being asked to apply common sense.

 

I'm well confused.

[Parafox]

19 minutes ago, Arkie Bennett said:

A Chancellor talking about giving money to people is always going to come across well.

Yes and what he hasn't addressed yet is how we're going to repay it. Let's see how popular he is then.

[FoxesDeb]

7 minutes ago, Abrasive fox said:

This is the most concerning bit for me, and hence why the advice is so unclear.

 

If you can't work from home go to work, but we're still in a high alert situation. Common sense would appear to be dont go to work based on these statistics and youre being asked to apply common sense.

 

I'm well confused.

So are a good percentage of the population who don't seem to have any common sense. 

[January47]

24 minutes ago, Abrasive fox said:

This is the most concerning bit for me, and hence why the advice is so unclear.

 

If you can't work from home go to work, but we're still in a high alert situation. Common sense would appear to be dont go to work based on these statistics and youre being asked to apply common sense.

 

I'm well confused.

That data shows a correlation between type of job and rates of death not that the type of job causes an increased risk. Other factors particularly other health issues and income probably show a similar pattern. I’d guess there would be a similar pattern if job type was correlated against deaths from any cause.