Corona Virus

[MC Prussian]

18 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

Given the fact that there are more women working in the health sector, hardly a surprise. D'oh.

[Innovindil]

21 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

I actually wasn’t suggesting stockpiling ventilators, though I’m sure the NHS should have had more anyway (apparently Germany has 4 times as many). I was suggesting that the government should have a prearranged contract with potential manufacturers so that production of whatever was deemed necessary could be stepped up when needed. The situation looks like a typical British “we’ll muddle through when we have to”.

Trouble is manufacturing companies with the capacity to make enough ventilators to make a difference can't just be held on "be there if we need you", chances are they are already manufacturing products that are equally important.

 

Hopefully the government put out an open call for help, my place of work is small and unlikely to tip the scale in the grand scheme of things, but our work is much more easily put on hold to help now. Enough small places could tip the scale.

[joachim1965]

7 minutes ago, BoyJones said:

No need mate, area where I live has two small chain stores and neither have run out of anything yet.

 

Popped in yesterday bought some loo roll and necessities. No one here seems to be panic buying. Bought the papers the morning in the local store and all shelves full! 

Location please, need to stock up on toilet rolls.

[BKLFox]

9 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

I actually wasn’t suggesting stockpiling ventilators, though I’m sure the NHS should have had more anyway (apparently Germany has 4 times as many). I was suggesting that the government should have a prearranged contract with potential manufacturers so that production of whatever was deemed necessary could be stepped up when needed. The situation looks like a typical British “we’ll muddle through when we have to”.

This is not a kin to the UK, 2 days ago the times ran a story on exactly this issue stating Italy had told its only in-country ventilator manufacturer to quadruple production, now that sounds a lot without a figure for comparison right, so they found out that's making 500 units per month instead of 125 so not huge numbers.

Germany had ordered 10,000 more ventilators and again that will be a rolling fill they won't be getting those in 1 hit it will take months to reach that figure. Article Also stated France was conducting a study on how many they will order and Spain have advised they don't have enough so it doesn't sound like we are alone. 

[Innovindil]

Posted at 14:1614:16

BREAKINGGermany 'to close some borders'

From Monday, Germany will close its land borders with Austria, France and Switzerland to curb the spread of coronavirus, local media report.

The decision has not yet been announced by Germany's government.

 

Amazing, just days ago there was no intention of closing any borders. Not reported as a u-turn by the bbc though. 

[Heathrow fox]

5 minutes ago, BoyJones said:

No need mate, area where I live has two small chain stores and neither have run out of anything yet.

 

Popped in yesterday bought some loo roll and necessities. No one here seems to be panic buying. Bought the papers the morning in the local store and all shelves full! 

Got a feeling the same useful idiots who started the craze,are the sort of people who drive 10 miles to get their petrol 2pence cheaper.Local shops round my way are all well stocked.Paying an extra 10p for bog roll is a small price to pay.

[z-layrex]

1 minute ago, BKLFox said:

This is not a kin to the UK, 2 days ago the times ran a story on exactly this issue stating Italy had told its only in-country ventilator manufacturer to quadruple production, now that sounds a lot without a figure for comparison right, so they found out that's making 500 units per month instead of 125 so not huge numbers.

Germany had ordered 10,000 more ventilators and again that will be a rolling fill they won't be getting those in 1 hit it will take months to reach that figure. Article Also stated France was conducting a study on how many they will order and Spain have advised they don't have enough so it doesn't sound like we are alone. 

 

As an ICU nurse of 10 years I've never seen a British-made ventilator, I can't even imagine how shit it would be. 

[Dahnsouff]

9 minutes ago, BoyJones said:

No need mate, area where I live has two small chain stores and neither have run out of anything yet.

 

Popped in yesterday bought some loo roll and necessities. No one here seems to be panic buying. Bought the papers the morning in the local store and all shelves full! 

Not surprised, everyone is round our way raiding our local shops. 

[Heathrow fox]

12 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

This is not a kin to the UK, 2 days ago the times ran a story on exactly this issue stating Italy had told its only in-country ventilator manufacturer to quadruple production, now that sounds a lot without a figure for comparison right, so they found out that's making 500 units per month instead of 125 so not huge numbers.

Germany had ordered 10,000 more ventilators and again that will be a rolling fill they won't be getting those in 1 hit it will take months to reach that figure. Article Also stated France was conducting a study on how many they will order and Spain have advised they don't have enough so it doesn't sound like we are alone. 

Where do the parts come from?Suddenly every country in the world desperately needs the same thing,all at the same time.

[yorkie1999]

44 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

But you can also say like all good knocking shops your only as clean as your last test, should we test daily?

No, weekly or every 2 weeks or even just once a month. We have no data whatsoever only mathematical models based on hospitalisations. Data is the basis of information and without information it’s all just suck it and see.

[Paninistickers]

13 minutes ago, Heathrow fox said:

Where do the parts come from?Suddenly every country in the world desperately needs the same thing,all at the same time.

Could be a glorious end for China.

 

The rest of the world may actually start making stuff again instead of buying Chinese tat

[BKLFox]

22 minutes ago, Heathrow fox said:

Where do the parts come from?Suddenly every country in the world desperately needs the same thing,all at the same time.

Whilst the largest manufacturers are in US and Europe (including In Ireland and UK) I'd assume like most things such as electrical components  used within production are built and shipped in from the Far East

That's not to say these components can't be produced in house but would again assume not on a mass scale which is probably where the 'war time effort' remark comes into play whereby an electronics company within the U.K. Could be asked to shift its normal production of x to something that is needed within y maybe?

Edited 15 March 2020 by BKLFox

[nnfox]

3 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

No, weekly or every 2 weeks or even just once a month. We have no data whatsoever only mathematical models based on hospitalisations. Data is the basis of information and without information it’s all just suck it and see.

In an ideal world you would know exactly what the numbers were.

 

In this case it's a "nice to have". We know lots of people will get it and we also know that the majority of those cases will be mild.  

 

I'd rather have my healthcare professionals care for people who need caring for, rather than gather statistics for the sake of gathering statistics.

 

If the virus acted differently, for instance if it were more difficult to become infected, so there were less cases, or there was a far higher mortality rate, then absolutely test as many people as you can.  But it's out there now, it can't be contained.  Let's deal with what we can deal with.

[MPH]

 

 

For anyone struggling with the ‘self isolation’.. Remember our grandparents were called to fight in the second world war and risk their life daily, we are being called to sit on the settee and watch Netflix.

 

 

 

Just a little perspective.

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, MPH said:

 

 

For anyone struggling with the ‘self isolation’.. Remember our grandparents were called to fight in the second world war and risk their life daily, we are being called to sit on the settee and watch Netflix.

 

 

 

Just a little perspective.

Agree, but we as people naturally judge our lot against the current and not via the lens of the past.

[davieG]

Wayne Rooney has hit out at football’s authorities over their “baffling” decision to only suspend leagues in England when Arsenal manager Mikel Arteta contracted coronavirus, and not when three Leicester City players were quarantined with symptoms.

The former England captain questioned why the FA, Premier League, and the government, were willing to treat players “like guinea pigs” despite the news on Thursday afternoon that a trio of City players were in self-isolation after showing mild signs of Covid-19.

Later on Thursday evening, the Premier League released a statement saying that the weekend’s games would be played as usual, in front of thousands of fans, but were forced to set up an emergency meeting an hour later when the Gunners confirmed their head coach was ill with the virus.

Rooney, now at Derby County, believes that if Leicester had a higher profile, like Arsenal, news of three of the players showing symptoms would have prompted the authorities into action.

“Why did we wait until Friday?” Rooney asked in his Sunday Times column. “Why did it take Mikel Arteta to get ill for the game in England to do the right thing? For players, staff and their families it has been a worrying week, one in which you felt a lack of leadership from the government and from the FA and Premier League.

“At Derby County, we sat at training on Thursday waiting for Boris Johnson to speak. People were anxious. We’d heard in the morning that three Leicester City players had shown symptoms of coronavirus.

“[The Prime Minister] said the schools are fine, let’s carry on, and what he said about sport was: ‘We’ll make a decision on it later.’

“You just thought: ‘He’s dodged it, he’s left the FA and Premier League to make the decision.’ When the FA and Premier League then didn’t make a decision either, it didn’t surprise me.

 

“It felt baffling that with three Leicester players having symptoms we were still planning to go ahead with games. Then on Thursday night it came out that Arteta had the virus and all of a sudden the Premier League announced an emergency meeting the next morning. What was the difference? Is it that Arteta was a bigger name?

“It felt typical of the way things are done in football. That Leicester aren’t a big enough team to cause any chaos, it’s fine, we carry on. Then as soon as one of the bigger clubs – Arsenal – are affected, we finally make a decision. It felt like we were trying to limp along, keep football going, instead of getting everyone for what’s going to come.

“After the emergency meeting, at last the right decision was made – until then it felt like footballers in England were being treated like guinea pigs.”

Football in England has been postponed until April 3, and Rooney said the governing bodies should be able to guarantee players’ and fans’ safety before allowing the game to restart, otherwise he would think about quitting the sport.

“I hope we learn from it because the next decision is just as big: when do we start playing again?” he said.

“For me, that can only happen once, for players, fans, and everyone else, it is absolutely safe. The powers have to get that one right. I know how I feel: if any of my family get infected through me because I’ve had to pay when it’s not safe, and they get seriously ill, I’d have to think hard about ever playing again. I would never forgive the authorities.”

[st albans fox]

One assumes that the difference between three possible cases and a confirmed case is exactly that. - the word confirmed. 
 

they should certainly have called off our game on the back of our situation on Thursday but maybe they decided to wait for the test results on Friday. 
 

given the issue we now see trying to finish the season, I can understand why they wanted to get another set of fixtures played. 
 

[String fellow]

Rooney is absolutely right. Let's not forget that in this country, our government hasn't yet even banned mass gatherings, even though the rest of Europe is taking drastic measures right now.

[yorkie1999]

I’ve managed to solve the problem of toilet paper shortages. 

 

[st albans fox]

Up from 21 to 35 - tbh, was expecting it to double again 

[Merging Cultures]

I mentioned this company a few days ago about how they are treating ARDS, the cause of death for people affected by corona.

 

They have their Shareholders meeting tomorrow, where below is likely to be announced. I am going to try to buy a boatload of shares in the morning!

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/even-coronavirus-survivors-can-be-left-with-lung-damage-that-takes-15-years-to-heal-msh8zmwtb

 

Even coronavirus survivors can be left with lung damage that takes 15 years to heal

Jonathan Leake, Science Editor

Sunday March 15 2020, 12.01am GMT, The Sunday Times

 

Thousands of coronavirus victims who survive serious illness will suffer damage to their lungs, heart and other organs, needing up to 15 years for recovery, say intensive care specialists.

The damage done by the virus directly, plus the intensive medical procedures needed to save desperately ill patients, will leave people with lung scarring, nerve damage and psychological trauma, according to warnings from the Faculty of Intensive Care Medicine (FICM), the professional body responsible for training intensive care doctors in the UK.

Its analysis of coronavirus cases in China and elsewhere shows that about 17% of people admitted to intensive care develop a condition called acute respiratory distress syndrome (Ards) — one of the most lethal conditions in medicine, with a mortality rate of about 40%.

“The impact of coronavirus on intensive care will fundamentally change the way nursing, medical and other staff groups work during the pandemic, and the intensity with which they will work,” said Dr Daniele Bryden, vice-dean of the FICM.

In Ards the virus triggers a powerful inflammatory response across the lungs which causes fluids to leak from blood vessels into spaces that should be filled with air — making breathing impossible without medical assistance.

Intensive care doctors are familiar with Ards because it can happen in infections such as flu and pneumonia, as well as chest injuries. It accounts for about 10% of intensive care admissions, but coronavirus means the number of Ards patients will surge, creating a critical shortage of intensive care beds.

The UK has about 4,000 such beds — far fewer per head than most EU countries — and about 80% are in use for people with other conditions.

“Ards kills 30-40% of patients,” said Michael Matthay, professor of medicine at the University of California, San Francisco, a world expert on the disease. “There is no specific treatment except to sedate patients and put them on mechanical ventilators to let them recover . . . Survivors have significant exercise limitation and poor physical quality of life . . . related to marked muscle wasting and weakness.”

Eileen Rubin, who spent weeks in a drug-induced coma after acquiring Ards through a lung infection and who now runs the US Ards Foundation, said: “Ards is like drowning in air. But even if you recover, the damage lasts for years. Those of us who have had Ards are living in fear of what coronavirus might do to us and to others.”

Mark Griffiths, professor of critical care medicine at the National Heart and Lung Institute, London, and one of the UK’s leading Ards experts, said patients could take months or years to recover. “Survivors commonly suffer from muscle weakness and neuropsychiatric problems, such that fewer than 50% have returned to work 12 months after leaving intensive care,” he said in a paper. “[They also had] myriad physical disabilities including . . . joint contractures, tracheal stenosis, and cosmetic concerns related to scarring.”

The FICM said that some people could regain “apparently normal” lungs after six months, with minimal symptoms such as reduced ability to exercise, but added: “For some, however, it could take as long as 15 years for their lungs to recover.”

It also warned of damage to other organs. “Like many other viral conditions, the effects of coronavirus are not just limited to the lungs. The heart can also be affected, ranging from inflammation (myocarditis) to heart failure.”

“For people who are seriously ill with coronavirus the outlook is very serious,” said Nicki Credland, a researcher in critical care at Hull University, who chairs the British Association of Critical Care Nurses. She warned of “tough choices” to come, with doctors potentially having to select whom they should save — a process known as triage. She said: “If we see the kind of numbers we’ve seen in Italy, then we will have to select those who are most likely to survive, and the rest will be in ordinary beds and have to take their chances.”

There may, however, be one cause for hope. This week US and UK scientists will announce that a long-running research programme to create the world’s first Ards therapy is to be fast-tracked by US medical agencies including the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority.

Geoff Bellingan, medical director at University College London Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust, has been testing the therapy, devised by Athersys, a US biotechnology company. It involves infusing specialised stem cells into the blood of Ards victims to halt the devastating lung inflammation it causes.

“The Ards trials are exciting,” said Bellingan. “Our treatment was able to halve mortality, reduce time spent in intensive care and give patients a big improvement in quality of life after they are discharged. With coronavirus threatening us, this could be very important.”

[StanSP]

8 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Rooney is absolutely right. Let's not forget that in this country, our government hasn't yet even banned mass gatherings, even though the rest of Europe is taking drastic measures right now.

Are we at that stage though? 

Are their medical services as strained as our NHS?

 

I've come round to the idea of current plans government have stated - don't quarantine now because if you do, in a month's time we could get a big wave of cases and totally overwhelm the NHS. Keeping it on tabs for now helps should there be a further mass outbreak in the UK and hopefully the NHS will be able to cope.

 

[Milo]

I'm half thinking of hoiking the kids out of school the week after next and heading to Center Parcs - purely for the fvcking novelty value of paying seven hundred quid and not 3 grand for the experience.

 

World's gone a bit mad, I can't imagine that the schools are that bothered if kids miss a few days. 

Edited 15 March 2020 by Milo

[VLC86]

1 hour ago, z-layrex said:

 

As an ICU nurse of 10 years I've never seen a British-made ventilator, I can't even imagine how shit it would be. 

I’ve always been kind to you so remember this.

[nnfox]

17 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Rooney is absolutely right. Let's not forget that in this country, our government hasn't yet even banned mass gatherings, even though the rest of Europe is taking drastic measures right now.

As an individual, you still have freedom of choice.  If you don't want to go to a mass gathering, don't.

 

The government in this country has a plan and is sticking to the plan. Banning mass gatherings will happen and probably sooner rather than later.

 

Just because someone else, even the majority of people are doing things differently, doesn't mean they are right and we are wrong.

 

People are prematurely criticising the plan with basically zero data.

 

We'll find out in 6-12 months, maybe more, which strategy was best.