Corona Virus

[MC Prussian]

9 minutes ago, Bayfox said:

My fear with lockdown is, who pays the Bill's, what can be put in place to solve those issues. Who picks up the tab. I know most will be in the same boat, 

 

I can't afford time off work being self employed and my savings won't go far, could survive a few weeks yes but not months on end.

 

My wife has spent all last week making sure her team at work can work remotely, but as they need to do site visits etc as part of job and if no one is at work, building or submitting planning application's it actually seems a little waste of resources to be honest.

 

Be interesting to see once we come out the other side how the face of the world has changed, industry's such as tourism may well not survive without bailouts the knock on effects of this could be life changing for many. Even if lucky enough to avoid the virus.

 

Madness that in 2020 something like this can cause world wide issues.

 

It is like living some film script.

 

Have to say I'm very much in the carry on and take the risk category, but some direction from the government would be nice.

 

 

My guess is most governments will be forced to support business and all sorts of daily life activities with tons of money, which in turn results in an accumulation of debt (on paper).

 

Then again, governments could counter that danger with debt cuts on the whole.

[Guest Kopfkino]

10 minutes ago, Bayfox said:

My fear with lockdown is, who pays the Bill's, what can be put in place to solve those issues. Who picks up the tab. I know most will be in the same boat, 

 

I can't afford time off work being self employed and my savings won't go far, could survive a few weeks yes but not months on end.

 

My wife has spent all last week making sure her team at work can work remotely, but as they need to do site visits etc as part of job and if no one is at work, building or submitting planning application's it actually seems a little waste of resources to be honest.

 

Be interesting to see once we come out the other side how the face of the world has changed, industry's such as tourism may well not survive without bailouts the knock on effects of this could be life changing for many. Even if lucky enough to avoid the virus.

 

Madness that in 2020 something like this can cause world wide issues.

 

It is like living some film script.

 

Have to say I'm very much in the carry on and take the risk category, but some direction from the government would be nice.

 

 

There's a lot that the government can do to step in. People are going to have to take some financial hit, that seems pretty certain, but the government can do a lot to smooth it. This, like during war, is when governments can completely forget about deficits and debt and do whatever they can. 

 

 

I think last night I came round to the idea of locking down for a few weeks as the best solution. I know little so I'm not gonna tell them how to do their jobs but an abrupt curtailment of freedom to get it controlled for a weeks now seems optimal to me. It gives you time to get ventilators. Actually, why wasn't the government in touch with manufacturers 6 weeks ago about this, why did they pretend to be prepared instead of actually preparing. But yeah time for ventilators, time to set up a proper testing infrastructure and maybe for existing therapies to show efficacy.

Then slowly reintroduce freedoms that can be taken back away if it begins to take off again but be in a position where you're back in the containment phase and can contact trace etc. 

[MC Prussian]

3 hours ago, Line-X said:

Nothing whatsoever to do an unhygienic livestock wet market directly in the area of the initial outbreak of a zoonotick disease then, which sells live bats - a source of four previous pandemics - alongside intermediary hosts such as pigs, civets, and pangolins. 

 

As unsettling as it may seem - as much as you search for order and reason, nature is chaotic and indifferent to mankind, it quite literally doesn't give a rats arse about you or I. Such rapidly mutating global viral pandemics are to be expected. They will continue to emerge and evolve as they always have done. 

I see your point, I'm just wondering why such a fast outbreak now, given the fact that China (and other countries in the area) have been selling such (dirty) livestock for decades, if not centuries (for medicinal purposes among others), without anything similar occurring on such a global scale.

 

Well, yeah. Nature IS. And we're part of it. I guess it's with our style of living that we've become a bit too distant from nature, seeing ourselves as somewhat excluded. That ignorance certainly plays into the hysteria we're seeing right now, too many people have been living a comfy life for too long, thinking nothing could touch them.

We haven't had to deal with a global health issue or crisis for about a century now, and the last World War is beginning to sound like an abstract or a fairytale to the younger generations.

 

As cynical as it may sound, maybe a virus is what we need in order to start anew and approach life with a bit more respect or experience it more consciously.

We've grown so fast in such a short period of time, perhaps we all need a bit of a break.

 

Doesn't change the fact that I'm curious to find out what the main cause is/was for the coronavirus, mind.

Edited 16 March 2020 by MC Prussian

[String fellow]

I think that we're all going to have to become experts at risk assessment in everything we do, and very quickly - not at the government's glacial pace.

[Dahnsouff]

If you listen to some on here, it almost sounds like the Government are refusing to listen to the exact same scientists any Government would have available to listen too!

I completely understand that these are very unsettling times, but lets see some sense of solidarity and hope 

[MPH]

[Jon the Hat]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

I demand a match model which shows how many people have to step out of the way to stop exponential growth.  

[CosbehFox]

50 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Go into lockdown yourself if you truly believe this is the right thing to do, don't wait for the Government to tell you.

Personally I would if I could - but I need to work to pay the bills. This is the balance we have currently. 

[SpacedX]

25 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

I see your point, I'm just wondering why such a fast outbreak now, given the fact that China (and other countries in the area) have been selling such (dirty) livestock for decades, if not centuries (for medicinal purposes among others), without anything similar occurring on such a global scale.

 

Well, yeah. Nature IS. And we're part of it. I guess it's with our style of living that we've become a bit too distant from nature, seeing ourselves as somewhat excluded. That ignorance certainly plays into the hysteria we're seeing right now, too many people have been living a comfy life for too long, thinking nothing could touch them.

We haven't had to deal with a global health issue or crisis for about a century now, and the last World War is beginning to sound like an abstract or a fairytale to the younger generations.

 

As cynical as it may sound, maybe a virus is what we need in order to start anew and approach life with a bit more respect or experience it more consciously.

We've grown so fast in such a short period of time, perhaps we all need a bit of a break.

 

Doesn't change the fact that I'm curious to find out what the main cause is/was for the coronavirus, mind.

Coronavirues were mostly known for causing common colds. The SARS outbreak was unprecedented because it was the first emergence of a deadly coronavirus with pandemic potential.. This game changer has galvanised a global search for animal viruses with the potential to find their way into humans. There are hundreds of bat-borne coronaviruses with incredible genetic diversity. Most of these are harmless, but there are dozens belong to the same group as SARS. They can infect human lung cells in a petri dish, cause SARS-like diseases in mice, and evade vaccines and drugs that work against SARS. Given that the virus seems fairly stable and that many infected individuals appear to have mild symptoms, scientists are postulating that the pathogen might have been around for weeks or even months before the first severe cases raised alarm. There might have been mini outbreaks, but the virus burned out before causing havoc. Despite my previous post, evidence does suggest that the virus came into the Wuhan Marketplace before it went out of it...

 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/wuhan-seafood-market-may-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally

 

The rate of emergence of new infectious diseases is accelerating, particularly the case in developing countries areas of high population density increasingly interact with animals and are gaining mobility. Rapidly evolving human populations encroach on wildlife habitats creating unprecedented changes in land use. With wildlife and livestock transported across countries and their products around the world, and with a sharp increase in both domestic and international travel, new disease outbreaks of pandemic scale are a mathematical inevitability. I was recently reading an analysis of approximately 500 human infectious diseases from the past century. The findings showed that emergence of new pathogens tended to happen in places where a dense population had been changing the landscape by building roads and mines, subject to deforestation and intensive agriculture. China is not the only hotspot - there are other major rapidly emerging economies, such as India, Nigeria and Brazil that also pose a very high risk.

[purpleronnie]

On ‎14‎/‎03‎/‎2020 at 20:01, Parafox said:

 

Seasonal flu killed circa 2,000 people in the UK last year, most of whom were elderly and/or had underlying health issues. That fact is nothing new. Do we get all panicky and stockpile bog rolls every November-March? No we don't. This is a strain of flu that nobody has immunity to so far and, unfortunately some will die that otherwise may have not. It's a fact of life at the moment. The vast majority of those that get infected will have minor to moderate symptoms akin to seasonal flu and lasting between 4-7 days before a rapid recovery. In severe cases some will develop pneumonia, in particular those with pre-existing respiratory illnesses and that may prove fatal if they are already severely weakened and that's sad but it's going to happen. Yes, there are reports from around the world that previously fit, young people have developed pneumonia and are on ICU's on ventilators but they are expected to recover quickly within days.

The whole panic thing baffles me. I'm no medical expert, but it seems to me as a layman that the world's reaction to this thing has fuelled mass anxiety. I agree that steps need to be taken but surely things like banning international flights is closing the door after the horse has bolted. Every country is infected. They won't get any less infected by keeping foreigners out. Containment was never going to be achievable and now we are in the "slow it down" phase. Some will get it, some won't, some will die, the vast majority won't.

I also don't get the mad buying of pasta?

I read people comparing it to other viruses as if we should all forget about corona virus as it's just like any other virus...it's not. The reason is the unknown, with seasonal flu we know about it we can prepare for it, we have vaccines , what is know is it's more contagious than seasonal flu with a much higher death rate.

[Happy Fox]

Anybody else working from home?

[brucey]

6 hours ago, nnfox said:

Some people are never happy.  This video was a simple, effective and intelligent explanation of the government's plan.  But no. They guy didn't have enough water in the jug so the plan is still flawed.

 

How about the empty jug represents the NHS capacity for dealing with Covid-19?

 

Time alone will tell whether this has been a good plan or not.  Wishing it were different isn't going to change the approach.

 

Without doubt, the government has much better access to data than the general public.  They'll know the state of the NHS and the capacity to deal with the problem today, tomorrow and next week.  They'll have all sorts of data relating to suspected cases by region. We have our top minds working on this and figuring out how to minimise deaths in the long term.

 

2020 is going to be a long and difficult year.  It isn't going to go away anytime soon. A balanced and patient plan with an eye on the bigger picture is what is required, not knee-jerk reactions because another country does something differently.

 

Stay calm, wash your hands, be sensible. And if you want to hide out in your pasta and bog roll bunker then that is absolutely fine too.  Good luck.

 

My point about the jug being very full already was that there is very little actual flex in the NHS system to absorb the extra load. I wish I could hide out in a bog roll bunker for 6 months but as an NHS worker I can't. I'm not sure the government knows more about the state of the NHS than those actually on the front line. What I have heard from colleagues regarding the current situation is less than ideal. I'm glad you have confidence in the government experts but a lot of people are rapidly losing faith. 

[ithuriel]

I felt ill about Tuesday/Wednesday last week and you are supposed to be contagious from one to five days beforehand, so if no one else at my workplace has become ill, I can safely say I have not had it but some other bug, yes?

Therefore I can go back to work when I'm feeling better and do not have to isolate myself.

[Izzy]

22 minutes ago, Happy Fox said:

Anybody else working from home?

Yep, might start of thread on the subject actually.
See what people really get up to when they should actually be working 

[Facecloth]

3 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Yep, might start of thread on the subject actually.
See what people really get up to when they should actually be working 

Not sure I want to know! 

[RoboFox]

I've been told to stay at home this week.

 

We have one confirmed case in another building and my boss - who I sit next to - is currently at home with a fever. 

 

There's very little I can really do at home, as my job is heavily technology based on site.

 

Feels weird.

[The Horse's Mouth]

13 hours ago, Guesty said:

This is a good thing; will stop unfounded speculation - or at least lessen it.

 

Hoping the journalists asking questions will be more scientific based and less political.

Thank **** for this, this is exactly what we need right now not constant speculation from people who have no clue what they're talking about 

[Strokes]

5 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Yep, might start of thread on the subject actually.
See what people really get up to when they should actually be working 

I’d just play with the chief all day, not gonna lie.

[yorkie1999]

3 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Not sure I want to know! 

Wandering mind! Internet! stockpile of loo roll! What's the worst that could happen?

[String fellow]

I'm wondering what the daily death rate will have to rise to before BoJo takes more drastic measures in regard to social isolating. Even Eire has ordered the closure of pubs, to help.

[Desabafar]

1 hour ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

How exactly has the Government 'lost control over the weekend'?

 

Go into lockdown yourself if you truly believe this is the right thing to do, don't wait for the Government to tell you.

because the public is losing faith and yesterday they were all over the place. they have briefed that over 70s will be told to isolate but now can't answer what that looks like

 

I already have limited my social interaction but I'm also helping out a friend who has a weakened immune system due to chemotherapy who has compeltely isolated at the moment

 

Its not about me though, it's what the government can do to help the most vulnerable, my actions cna only have a small impact. even healthy people are going to suffer massively because of this ffs

[StanSP]

28 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Yep, might start of thread on the subject actually.
See what people really get up to when they should actually be working 

I regularly w(ork)fh... 

 

 

[Nod.E]

The problem with all this "It's great to see that capitalism can be stopped. It's time to prioritise people over business etc etc", is that saying that assumes that the impact to business does not impact people.

 

More people will be negatively impacted by the panic caused by all of this than there will be deaths caused by the virus.

 

Business stops, jobs are lost. Jobs are lost, people's livelihoods are taken. Houses are lost, and ironically, health issues are associated.

 

Surely the way to limit the impact is to tell older folk they will have to isolate themselves. While that's obviously terrible for them, and for families who would have to go months without seeing loved ones, surely it's the way to limit the number of lives that unravel.

 

One way of a life unraveling is for a family member to die. Another way is to lose work and houses.

 

Just seems like such an extreme consequence from a virus which realistically can only harm the elderly. Deal with the problem at source and find ways to stop the elderly from getting it, then. 

[joachim1965]

3 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

The problem with all this "It's great to see that capitalism can be stopped. It's time to prioritise people over business etc etc", is that saying that assumes that the impact to business does not impact people.

 

More people will be negatively impacted by the panic caused by all of this than there will be deaths caused by the virus.

 

Business stops, jobs are lost. Jobs are lost, people's livelihoods are taken. Houses are lost, and ironically, health issues are associated.

 

Surely the way to limit the impact is to tell older folk they will have to isolate themselves. While that's obviously terrible for them, and for families who would have to go months without seeing loved ones, surely it's the way to limit the number of lives that unravel.

 

One way of a life unraveling is for a family member to die. Another way is to lose work and houses.

 

Just seems like such an extreme consequence from a virus which realistically can only harm the elderly. Deal with the problem at source and find ways to stop the elderly from getting it, then. 

It doesn't just harm the elderly,  in Italy young people are dying as well, the health care system has almost collapsed, doctors are choosing who lives and who dies, what as a country are we doing?  Nothing.

[Ollie93]

4 minutes ago, joachim1965 said:

It doesn't just harm the elderly,  in Italy young people are dying as well, the health care system has almost collapsed, doctors are choosing who lives and who dies, what as a country are we doing?  Nothing.

Has anyone actually thought why the situation in Italy is so bad? I'm not under-estimating the virus, as I am well aware how dangerous it is, however are there other factors. Someone in my office mentioned the point that in a lot of Mediterranean societies the grandparents live with the family (therefore young children). Could this increase the rate of spread further I wonder.