Brendan Rodgers 38 Premier League Games

[AKCJ]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

Our home form up to Christmas under Rodgers was astonishing.

Our form in general up to Christmas was astonishing. We've been shite since beating Villa.

[urban.spaceman]

I had been considering doing a thread entitled 'Progress and Perspective' but this has pretty much done the same thing. Our form has been worrying but in reality, we've only lost very narrowly since Boxing Day, had quite a few contentious decisions go against us in that time. And Wilf has been missing for most of that time too. We're still 3rd, and in a very good position to solidify that place before the end of the season if we can finish strongly. 

 

One good thing that's come out of this though is that it's shown the blatant weaknesses in the squad, and where we desperately need to strengthen in the summer. 

[RumbleFox]

4 hours ago, ScouseFox said:

we've been in relegation form for 3 months

We genuinely haven't.  Over the past 12 games we have been in mid table form. 

[Guest]

Who cares about the last 38?

 

It's the next 10 that matter.

[UpTheLeagueFox]

6 minutes ago, FIF said:

Who cares about the last 38?

It's the next 10 that matter.

Yeah and who cares about winning the league in 2016?

[fuchsntf]

5 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

We are a huge work in progress, Rodgers hit the ground running here and turned us very quickly in to a team that was too strong for teams with weaknesses at being able to pass the ball. We are now in the midst of a poor spell that is in danger of stretching way longer than most teams who challenge for a top 4 would find themselves in. This is where the work really starts, let's see what he and the coaches can do with this squad until the summer. If we get 4-6 wins and a couple of draws and end the season well then we have had a phenomenal season and the future really is bright, if we blow it then there will have to be question marks over the squad and manager but he deserves the time to build here as he is evidently very classy in the majority of what he does.

I reckon I will go along with the gist,in this very Good post...except und there is always a but/except...

The question marks will & should always be there...!!

 

# We drive/or Limp ahead and Quality for 4th,comfortably...Club And Rodgers still Need to look for that/those players that takes us Quality wise, 1 Step higher

#We Fall off the scale und results implode,scrape Top 6...IT DOESNT CHANGE THINGS, not really!!!

But we have to delve then into the mental discipline and aptitude of the players.

 

Pearson built up a Great backroom staff,that looked at all facits of the players needs and game. Ranieri After clinching the title,with his poor forethought & some

Italian negative arrogance,dismantled an ethos within the backroom staff that interfaced & supported the playing staff,that was envied.and some others later  adopted

Maybe now,its that off-field support and Sport-sciences that are missing....

It might be just that simple hard fact,that we have missed a fit Ndidi. Eg: Man.city would miss KDB,but still have more than enough Quality and Experience in the squad to Counter that missing high Quality player...

B.Rodgers, and our club are along way off,most likely will Not reach that depth in quality,because of Financial budget/restraints.

Besides that,After Puel having to do alot of Dirty work and redefining the squad capabilities,& ambitions,

we are still Early in our clubs/owners higher targets and ambitions I suppose even expectations..

 B.Rodgers is only starting out...it we were in any position of that Now Chasing pack of teams sitting in those 8-4 positions,we would of been more than happy..

I Don t Think we are over achieving,but to reach und consistently Keep this level,we are seeing the young players are having to learn long Term mental discipline

and aptitude ( which is tirering,over long periods). Plus B.Rodgers does Not have the Quality in depth,to maintain a long campaign.

Our fringe /Cover has gone up a notch and rekindled their PL game,but Not quite has high as hoped.

Plus our injuries have been telling..

 

 

[ScouseFox]

37 minutes ago, RumbleFox said:

We genuinely haven't.  Over the past 12 games we have been in mid table form. 

12 points from 12 games is relegation fighting form, whether you want to argue about the fact we’d probably stay up by a point or two if we got 38 points then that’s fine, but it’s not really the point i was making. 

 

sick of the weirdos on here who think we should watch 3 months of turgid football and just completely ignore it because we had a decent run of form before that. 

 

if, and it is starting to look like when, we completely ruin this whole season and opportunity, being good for 8 games in the autumn isn’t really gonna matter that much, is it? we could well blow a 14 point cushion here and people would be replying to threads saying we’ve fu cked it by saying “at least we had a 14 point cushion at one stage”. who gives a shit. 

[HankMarvin]

3 minutes ago, ScouseFox said:

12 points from 12 games is relegation fighting form, whether you want to argue about the fact we’d probably stay up by a point or two if we got 38 points then that’s fine, but it’s not really the point i was making. 

 

sick of the weirdos on here who think we should watch 3 months of turgid football and just completely ignore it because we had a decent run of form before that. 

 

if, and it is starting to look like when, we completely ruin this whole season and opportunity, being good for 8 games in the autumn isn’t really gonna matter that much, is it? we could well blow a 14 point cushion here and people would be replying to threads saying we’ve fu cked it by saying “at least we had a 14 point cushion at one stage”. who gives a shit. 

Agreed its, shit because we are on a downward trajectory. After such a brilliant start its even more annoying knowing what the players are capable of.

That said, in the coming weeks and months will will find out if the anomaly was indeed the good form leading up to Dec or the shit run we have seen since.

[LCFCSOULBOY]

4 hours ago, henrik_62 said:

This is the nail on the head.  There is a trend of on here of extremism both ways I've noticed.  On one side of fence those that demand that manager walks after a single poor result or performance and on the other side a band that get aghast at any form of criticism of manager, player or whatever else because you were playing in the third tier in 2008.  Both of these views are of course ridiculous. 

 

Some people really need to realise it's ok to be concerned at the current form and exhibit constructive criticism all the while still being fully behind the manager and his plan going forward.

Could not agree more. I for one want to see who he brings in over the summer and how we fair for the first 10 games of next season. If he brings in new players to bolster the squad and we play exactly the same slow game like the last 10 games, then we should really start to ask questions. 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

18 minutes ago, ScouseFox said:

sick of the weirdos on here who think we should watch 3 months of turgid football and just completely ignore it because we had a decent run of form before that. 

I don't think people (weirdos, really??) on here are "completely ignoring it" - certainly from my point of view it's about being concerned at the downturn but also viewing a bigger picture with some measured perspective.

I appreciate 'measured perspective' is not something fans (of most clubs) do particularly well.

[RumbleFox]

18 minutes ago, ScouseFox said:

12 points from 12 games is relegation fighting form, whether you want to argue about the fact we’d probably stay up by a point or two if we got 38 points then that’s fine, but it’s not really the point i was making. 

 

sick of the weirdos on here who think we should watch 3 months of turgid football and just completely ignore it because we had a decent run of form before that. 

 

if, and it is starting to look like when, we completely ruin this whole season and opportunity, being good for 8 games in the autumn isn’t really gonna matter that much, is it? we could well blow a 14 point cushion here and people would be replying to threads saying we’ve fu cked it by saying “at least we had a 14 point cushion at one stage”. who gives a shit. 

I am saying that based on the last 12 games we are 14th in the league which is not quite relegation form.  I am not saying anything about how we are playing and of course the form is not good enough, I was merely stating that over the last 12 games our form has us sitting 14th.  Not good enough of course but 14th isn't relegation form.  I understand your concerns and I am worried too but over the 38 games it does not matter too much if we start well and finish shite or the other way round the points are the same and if we finish 3rd we deserve 3rd and if we finish 4th we deserve 4th and so on.  It is possible to say "actually I don't quite think 14th is relegation form" without saying "I am enjoying watching 3 months of turgid football because we started well", I think that was a little bit of a straw man though I do understand your point.  Let's just hope we manage to improve our form which is bad but not quite bottom three over the last three months as you asserted.  X

[LCFCSOULBOY]

12 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

In case anyone is interested...

 

 

BRENDAN RODGERS: 38 Premier League games, one full season at LCFC 

 

Overall: 67pts    1.76ppg

W20 D7 L11   F71 A37  GD+34

 

Home: 37pts    1.94ppg

W11 D4 L4   F34 A17  GD+17

 

Away: 30pts    1.57ppg

W9 D3 L7   F37 A20  GD+17

 

 

Over the past 10 seasons, 67 points would've seen you finish 4th (once), 5th (four times), 6th (three times), 7th (twice).

A little deceiving being those figures are including last season. We should really wait to see where we stand after this entire season. That is a true picture of where we stand and where we are as a team. It's like saying a manager won the league with 102 points got regulated with 34 points following season and saying well is average is 60 points. Great job done. Doesn't work like that. It's all about the current. A manager is always judged on the teams current situation.

[That_Dude]

1 hour ago, ScouseFox said:

12 points from 12 games is relegation fighting form, whether you want to argue about the fact we’d probably stay up by a point or two if we got 38 points then that’s fine, but it’s not really the point i was making. 

 

sick of the weirdos on here who think we should watch 3 months of turgid football and just completely ignore it because we had a decent run of form before that. 

 

if, and it is starting to look like when, we completely ruin this whole season and opportunity, being good for 8 games in the autumn isn’t really gonna matter that much, is it? we could well blow a 14 point cushion here and people would be replying to threads saying we’ve fu cked it by saying “at least we had a 14 point cushion at one stage”. who gives a shit. 

 

We don't have enough squad depth and always were one injury to a key player away from a dip in form.

 

We massively overachieved in the first half of the season, all xG stats (can't be arsed to search for the link) indicating that we scored more and conceded less than we should have.

 

Losing Ndidi was a big blow that greatly contributed to jam a well-oiled but still fragile machine. We're still crying out for a good right winger but those don't grow on trees.

 

Now I'm not saying that there aren't problems atm and it would be a massive shame if we drop out of the top 4. However no one here or anywhere else would've had us sitting third at this stage of the season with still 5 points more than the direct challenger.

 

People should take a break, everything ain't lost yet.

Edited 2 March 2020 by That_Dude

[Chrysalis]

6 hours ago, ScouseFox said:

we've been in relegation form for 3 months

Apparently we have it good though, relegation form is awesome.

[RumbleFox]

3 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Apparently we have it good though, relegation form is awesome.

Hello Mr Strawman how are you today?  X

[Chrysalis]

Ahh the usual when there is no reasonable thing to argue your point to start name calling.

 

Just to clarify I do not want Rodgers sacked, I havent said I want him sacked, but I do recognise we do not have it good right now in relegation form and been not enjoyable to watch, yes I can look past the points total.  I dont have a narrow point of view.

[ealingfox]

15 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

I don't think people (weirdos, really??) on here are "completely ignoring it" - certainly from my point of view it's about being concerned at the downturn but also viewing a bigger picture with some measured perspective.

I appreciate 'measured perspective' is not something fans (of most clubs) do particularly well.

 

Thinking that the current downturn is less concerning because we won a few dead rubbers at the back end of last season is not viewing a bigger picture with some measured perspective.

[RumbleFox]

1 minute ago, Chrysalis said:

Ahh the usual when there is no reasonable thing to argue your point to start name calling.

 

Just to clarify I do not want Rodgers sacked, I havent said I want him sacked, but I do recognise we do not have it good right now in relegation form and been not enjoyable to watch, yes I can look past the points total.  I dont have a narrow point of view.

Name calling?  You literally used a strawman argument so I pointed it out?  No name calling here, I am all for reasoned debate, in fact I enjoy it.  X

Edited 2 March 2020 by RumbleFox

[Chrysalis]

5 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

We are a huge work in progress, Rodgers hit the ground running here and turned us very quickly in to a team that was too strong for teams with weaknesses at being able to pass the ball. We are now in the midst of a poor spell that is in danger of stretching way longer than most teams who challenge for a top 4 would find themselves in. This is where the work really starts, let's see what he and the coaches can do with this squad until the summer. If we get 4-6 wins and a couple of draws and end the season well then we have had a phenomenal season and the future really is bright, if we blow it then there will have to be question marks over the squad and manager but he deserves the time to build here as he is evidently very classy in the majority of what he does.

 

I can agree with most of that, certainly he should have the rest of the season absolutely no question.  What I want to see is if he is capable of turning this round, as we have been figured out.

[Chrysalis]

1 minute ago, RumbleFox said:

Name calling?  You literally used a strawman argument so I pointed it out?  No name calling here, I am all for reasoned debate, in fact I enjoy it.  X

You called me Mr Strawman, is that not name calling?  Also it wasnt even a strawman comment.  

[RumbleFox]

12 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

You called me Mr Strawman, is that not name calling?  Also it wasnt even a strawman comment.  

I thought it was obvious that I meant your argument, not you personally but I do apologise if there was confusion and I am sorry if your feelings were hurt, it is the last thing I ever intend.  It was a definite straw man argument, unless you can quote me where anyone said "relegation form is awesome".  I am not trying to say your viewpoint is wrong and shut you down I am trying to enter an honest debate (there is a huge difference) and I do not believe in strawmen arguments as they do little to help your cause.  If you can quote me where myself or anyone else said relegation form is awesome I will happily apologise profusely and admit my mistake which I am always happy to do, I like to be proved wrong if I am wrong.  X

Edited 2 March 2020 by RumbleFox

[Chrysalis]

No one directly said for specifically but the point was made we have it good right now.  I feel a reasonable counter to that is we dont have it good because we in relegation form for 3 months.

Edited 2 March 2020 by Chrysalis

[CosbehFox]

31 minutes ago, That_Dude said:

 

We massively overachieved in the first half of the season, all xG stats (can't be arsed to search for the link) indicating that we scored more and conceded less than we should have.

Still over-performing by 5 points, astonishing Liverpool are overachieving their expected points by 21. 

 

I had a quick look at our games since January to see if we have deserving of more (using Understat)

 

Opposition / Actual Result / xG Result / Points Difference

 

Newcastle away / 4-0 / 2-0 / equal

Saints home / 1-2 / 1-2 / equal 

Burnley away / 1-2 / 2-1 / +3

West Ham home / 4-1 / 3-1 / equal

Chelsea home / 2-2 / 2-1 / +2 

Wolves away / 0-0 / 0-0 / equal 

Manchester C home / 0-1 / 1-2 / equal 

Norwich away / 0-1 / 1-0 / +3 

 

xG since January suggests we should be 8 points better off which is rather interesting given the first half/overachieved. 

[volpeazzurro]

40 minutes ago, That_Dude said:

 

We don't have enough squad depth and always were one injury to a key player away from a dip in form.

 

We massively overachieved in the first half of the season, all xG stats (can't be arsed to search for the link) indicating that we scored more and conceded less than we should have.

 

Losing Ndidi was a big blow that massively contributed to jam a well-oiled but still fragile machine. We're still crying out for a good right winger but those don't grow on trees.

 

Now I'm not saying that there aren't problems atm and it would be a massive shame if we drop out of the top 4. However no one here or anywhere else would've had us sitting third at this stage of the season with still 5 points more than the direct challenger.

 

People should take a break, everything ain't lost yet.

With the exception of the top two teams, I would say that we have very good strength in depth compared to most of our counterparts. They too have had their fair share of injuries, tiredness, fixture congestion and tiredness, some more so due to european commitments.  Some managers manage their squads better than others including varying tactics and formations that are most suitable for the players available on the pitch.

[RumbleFox]

12 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

No one directly said for specifically but the point was made we have it good right now.  I feel a reasonable counter to that is we dont have it good because we in relegation form for 3 months.

OK great, thank you for clarifying, I wish you would have put it like that originally rather than a strawman as I honestly think it hinders your own argument when hyperbole is used.  Well we have it good in terms of position but not form I will agree with you.  Over the last 3 months our form has us 14th in the table which is bad but not quite relegation form but I accept your point.  Personally I think a young, inexperienced team is leading to inconsistency and I think we will finish in the top four by the skin of our teeth and improve as a result once the learn from this as they are young and learning.  That does not mean I think things are awesome or that form is good but I do feel Brendan and the squad should be given time and another window and pre-season.  If things do not improve form wise then of course things need looking at.  I think those stating that we have it good do not mean that we are playing well just that, overall so far this season, we are in one of the best positions we have been in in our entire history and that a little perspective is needed but I understand it sometimes comes across as blind positivity even though I do not think it is meant that way.