Overrated players

[Toddybad]

10 hours ago, Saxondale said:

The entire 'golden generation' of English players (the Ashley Cole, Steven Gerrard, etc. era). If they were that golden, why did they win f**k all. It was all hype created by the British sports media.

They were all quality which is why English clubs had a spell of winning or nearly winning the champions League, being the dominant country for a handful of years, where in one year we had 3 out of four champions League semi finalists with the only other English team going out to an English team in the quarters. 

They were outstanding individuals.

The problem is that teams win competitions and we didn't get the right mix. 

Also Gerrard in particular was a bit of a Roy of the rovers footballer - could turn and win a match on his own as he had everything but prone to looking for Hollywood passes when with England he had more capable players that didn't need that like that Liverpool team.

From Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard it's hard to pick a single winner. I'd say the weakest footballer was Lampard but he also had the greatest goals return (I assume he beats Gerard there anyway). Gerrard could play in any position and dominate and he had strength, power, and was s bit of a force of nature. Scholes was the best one and two touch player this country has produced in many, many years, if not ever. If he was Brazilian or Italian they'd have built the team around him. People forget that in his early years he'd push right up and score lots as well. We just couldn't find a blend that worked as a team and tried to shoehorn players into positions they weren't comfortable in. 

Edited 15 April 2020 by Toddybad

[Silebyfox_89]

Declan Rice. 

[Sly]

I personally think that Pele is overrated, based on what I’ve seen. 

 

Modern footballers: 
Danny Drinkwater
Jack Wilshire

Mario Ballotteli

Mattio Guendozzi

Jordan Pickford

Ravel Morrisson

Declan Rice

Marcus Rashford

 

 

 

[Sly]

That England “Golden Generation”, we’re unbelievably talented.
 

In fact, we had good chances to win many tournaments from 1996 onwards really. Unfortunately, we had some duffers outside of the first 11 that would have struggled to get a game for the other home nations. 
 

Just look at some of the names with multiple England caps. 
 

David Batty

Paul Merson

Gareth Southgate

Phil Neville

Nick Barmby

Dennis Wise

David James

Wes Brown

Danny Mills

Nicky Butt

Kieron Dyer

Darrius Vassell

Michael Dawson

Glen Johnson

 

 

[Toddybad]

17 minutes ago, Sly said:

That England “Golden Generation”, we’re unbelievably talented.
 

In fact, we had good chances to win many tournaments from 1996 onwards really. Unfortunately, we had some duffers outside of the first 11 that would have struggled to get a game for the other home nations. 
 

Just look at some of the names with multiple England caps. 
 

David Batty

Paul Merson

Gareth Southgate

Phil Neville

Nick Barmby

Dennis Wise

David James

Wes Brown

Danny Mills

Nicky Butt

Kieron Dyer

Darrius Vassell

Michael Dawson

Glen Johnson

 

 

To be fair to Southgate he looked like a random pick in that England team but was probably our only ball playing Central defender. I know he missed the penalty but he was one of our best players in Euro 96.

[Fox92]

On 14/04/2020 at 23:39, pds said:

Not an overrated player but Giggs' goal against Arsenal is the most overrated goal I've ever seen. He barely beat anyone, dodgy touch past the last man then smashed it. Very little skill yet it's talked about as one of the greatest goals ever.

Agree. On BBC Sport they were arguing it was the best FA Cup moment of all time..

[Izzy]

On 14/04/2020 at 23:39, pds said:

Not an overrated player but Giggs' goal against Arsenal is the most overrated goal I've ever seen. He barely beat anyone, dodgy touch past the last man then smashed it. Very little skill yet it's talked about as one of the greatest goals ever.

 

29 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Agree. On BBC Sport they were arguing it was the best FA Cup moment of all time..

If he hadn't taken his top off and twirled it around whilst exposing his chest wig, it would be less memorable I reckon 

[Wymsey]

Jack Butland, you could say a season or so ago (whilst being linked with Liverpool).

[Toddybad]

6 hours ago, Fox92 said:

Agree. On BBC Sport they were arguing it was the best FA Cup moment of all time..

Think the semi final where crystal palace beat Liverpool - I think 4-3 - was the best moment I remember back when the FA cup something.

 

Obviously if we got to a final it'd suddenly mean something again!

Edited 17 April 2020 by Toddybad

[Guest Fktf]

On 15/04/2020 at 19:41, Toddybad said:

They were all quality which is why English clubs had a spell of winning or nearly winning the champions League, being the dominant country for a handful of years, where in one year we had 3 out of four champions League semi finalists with the only other English team going out to an English team in the quarters. 

They were outstanding individuals.

The problem is that teams win competitions and we didn't get the right mix. 

Also Gerrard in particular was a bit of a Roy of the rovers footballer - could turn and win a match on his own as he had everything but prone to looking for Hollywood passes when with England he had more capable players that didn't need that like that Liverpool team.

From Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard it's hard to pick a single winner. I'd say the weakest footballer was Lampard but he also had the greatest goals return (I assume he beats Gerard there anyway). Gerrard could play in any position and dominate and he had strength, power, and was s bit of a force of nature. Scholes was the best one and two touch player this country has produced in many, many years, if not ever. If he was Brazilian or Italian they'd have built the team around him. People forget that in his early years he'd push right up and score lots as well. We just couldn't find a blend that worked as a team and tried to shoehorn players into positions they weren't comfortable in. 

A missed opportunity? Looking back, trying to get the best players on the pitch, ignoring positions, seemed to be the idea. Christ knows who we would have played left mid, but but they'd have been more suited to that role than Scholes, who would then have to take one of the two centre mid spots.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

12 hours ago, Sly said:

That England “Golden Generation”, we’re unbelievably talented.
 

In fact, we had good chances to win many tournaments from 1996 onwards really. Unfortunately, we had some duffers outside of the first 11 that would have struggled to get a game for the other home nations. 
 

Just look at some of the names with multiple England caps. 
 

David Batty

Paul Merson

Gareth Southgate

Phil Neville

Nick Barmby

Dennis Wise

David James

Wes Brown

Danny Mills

Nicky Butt

Kieron Dyer

Darrius Vassell

Michael Dawson

Glen Johnson

 

Some duffers in that list but not having Merson or Southgate as bad shouts. Batty did a less glamorous job, and for a brief period Glen Johnson was pretty handy, too.

On Quickly Kevin recently they were discussing Nicky Barmby, he's imminently forgettable but he had three fairly big money moves relatively speaking. Was Boro's record signing, Everton's record signing, then went directly to Liverpool for reasonable cash too. 

 

 

12 hours ago, Fox92 said:

Agree. On BBC Sport they were arguing it was the best FA Cup moment of all time..

 

Christ, how could they have that over (off the top of my head) Ben Watson's goal for Wigan? Or Gerrard's belter in 06?

[Nalis]

On 14/04/2020 at 23:39, pds said:

Not an overrated player but Giggs' goal against Arsenal is the most overrated goal I've ever seen. He barely beat anyone, dodgy touch past the last man then smashed it. Very little skill yet it's talked about as one of the greatest goals ever.

Completely agree, same goes for the Henry goal v Spurs where he ran for about 70 yards with the ball while Sours players didnt even challenge him.

 

 

[Gubbins]

Phil Foden is the big overrated one currently. Helped by Guardiola saying he's the best player he's ever managed or whatever it was before not playing him all season.

A name I don't think has been mentioned yet is Sterling. Obviously has scored a fair few but seems to miss an absolute sitter every other match. 

 

Leicester wise and I've mentioned it before but I'll put forward Steve Howard, a genuinely dreadful player who is considered a legend by some on here.

Edited 18 April 2020 by Gubbins

[Fox92]

3 hours ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

 

Christ, how could they have that over (off the top of my head) Ben Watson's goal for Wigan? Or Gerrard's belter in 06?

Yeah I think in my lifetime I'd probably go for Gerrard in 2006. Basically single-handedly won it for Liverpool that day with that volley and then the winner in extra time.

[49er]

13 hours ago, Toddybad said:

Think the semi final where crystal palace beat Liverpool - I think 4-3 - was the best moment I remember back when the FA cup something.

 

Obviously if we got to a final it'd suddenly mean something again!

It’s on now

[Fox92]

5 hours ago, Gubbins said:

Phil Foden is the big overrated one currently. Helped by Guardiola saying he's the best player he's ever managed or whatever it was before not playing him all season.

A name I don't think has been mentioned yet is Sterling. Obviously has scored a fair few but seems to miss an absolute sitter every other match. 

 

Leicester wise and I've mentioned it before but I'll put forward Steve Howard, a genuinely dreadful player who is considered a legend by some on here.

His contribution to us was massive over the course of two good seasons. Not a legend for me, more of a hero.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

On 10/04/2020 at 23:48, Nalis said:

There is something I'd called 'Scholes Syndrome' in football whereby a player is underrated at first but then became so acknowledged as underrated that they end up being overrated. 

This is a genius comment.

 

See: Claude Makélélé

Leighton Baines

Jordan Henderson this season

Karim Benzema

For us Neil Lennon. He was good but not the all time great some would have you believe. Likewise Bruno Berner.

 

Edited 18 April 2020 by Arriba Los Zorros

[Fox92]

18 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

This is a genius comment.

 

See: Claude Makélélé

Leighton Baines

Jordan Henderson this season

Karim Benzema

For us Neil Lennon. He was good but not the all time great some would have you believe. Likewise Bruno Berner.

 

They literally call holding midfield the "Makelele role". 

[Toddybad]

44 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

This is a genius comment.

 

See: Claude Makélélé

Leighton Baines

Jordan Henderson this season

Karim Benzema

For us Neil Lennon. He was good but not the all time great some would have you believe. Likewise Bruno Berner.

 

Neil Lennon was absolutely superb.

In our second best team of the last 50 years that won two cups and had multiple top ten finishes.

Him, Izzet and Eliott were the key players imo.

[Dan LCFC]

How has Benzema ended up in here? I can't think of a more under-rated player. Could be just me but I hardly ever seem to read a good word about the bloke and he's been starting up front for Real Madrid for years. He can't be that bad.

[Stadt]

Keepers that have completely fallen off a cliff never really get called out. Lloris has been the Niçoise Wayne Hennessey for about 3 seasons but commentators brush over his mistakes because he was good half a decade ago. Likewise with De Gea.

[Gubbins]

9 hours ago, pmcla26 said:

Steve Howard is only ‘dreadful’ if you’re comparing him to the players we’ve got now. He was decent for us, but not a legend. Just a likeable player that was good at the time for where we were at

Nostalgia glasses imo. He's dreadful even compared to the players we had at the time. I'll admit I missed most of the League one season through being abroad but he was an absolute carthorse in all 4 seasons in the championship. As bad as anyone in the season we went down and dropped in the play off season due to a chronic lack of goals. A handful of good games at the tail end of that season and immense in the play off 2nd leg at Cardiff admittedly. But in the end he got less than 15 goals in around 100 championship games, provided about as much movement, pace and skill as a postbox and gave away endless amounts of freekicks from the balls being hoofed up to him. Calling him 'decent' definitely over rates him!

[Leicester_Loyal]

Scott McTominay. Another one who's a half decent player, but is spoken about like he's world class. 24 years old this year and should be just starting to come into his prime next season, so we'll see how he does.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

13 hours ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

This is a genius comment.

 

See: Claude Makélélé

Leighton Baines

Jordan Henderson this season

Karim Benzema

For us Neil Lennon. He was good but not the all time great some would have you believe. Likewise Bruno Berner.

 

 

Does anyone think of Berner as an all time great? Surely the general consensus is that he was a model professional and epitome of consistency for us at left back in L1 / the Championship for a handful of seasons - which is hard to argue otherwise.

[Fox92]

8 hours ago, Gubbins said:

Nostalgia glasses imo. He's dreadful even compared to the players we had at the time. I'll admit I missed most of the League one season through being abroad but he was an absolute carthorse in all 4 seasons in the championship. As bad as anyone in the season we went down and dropped in the play off season due to a chronic lack of goals. A handful of good games at the tail end of that season and immense in the play off 2nd leg at Cardiff admittedly. But in the end he got less than 15 goals in around 100 championship games, provided about as much movement, pace and skill as a postbox and gave away endless amounts of freekicks from the balls being hoofed up to him. Calling him 'decent' definitely over rates him!

At the end of the day he contributed to two good seasons here. Two that I am proud of, and was very proud of at the time.

 

Howard and Oakley will both tell you they weren't as good as expected during 07/08, both have said it before hence they stayed to put it right.

 

This thread isn't right to criticise some of our players, especially those who have contributed well here. Someone posted Neil Lennon. A key player who won trophies here. Come on man.