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Countryfox

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By Countryfox, in General Chat

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Buce

Buce

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I'd like to think this might cause a re-think over gun ownership, but I won't hold my breath.

 

There is literally no reason whatsoever that anyone needs to own a firearm.

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Fox92

Fox92

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Fox92 said:

I read that a child under 10 died.

 

2 hours ago, SecretPro said:

Incel blackpill freak again. Kid he shot was 3 apparently.

Police confirm a girl aged 3.

 

How sad.

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Blarmy

Blarmy

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Posted
5 hours ago, leicsmac said:

...but "Not All Men", apparently.

 

Well, yes, of course it isn't. But *enough* men.

Weird though isn’t it? Any other group, we (as a society) have to explore why that group does bad things. We have to look for some reason beyond “just because”.  But when the group is “men”, that seems to be enough.

 

If the person asserting that is narrow-minded of course. 

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StanSP

StanSP

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RIP to those who have been killed. Can't believe a poor 3y/o has lost their life so innocently :( 

 

It really shouldn't be said but there were so many comments on Twitter saying 'religion of peace strikes again', or comments to that effect. Infuriating not because it skips the point that people have tragically lost their lives at the hands of an absolute madman, but the first port of call for them is to out their prejudices as opposed to anything else.

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Wymsey

Wymsey

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, LCFCCHRIS said:

Horrible news. Just further makes me glad that guns aren't as common here (or as legal) as the US.

True, but knife crime is very much rife in London (as if authorities have turned a blind eye to it).

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Blarmy said:

Weird though isn’t it? Any other group, we (as a society) have to explore why that group does bad things. We have to look for some reason beyond “just because”.  But when the group is “men”, that seems to be enough.

 

If the person asserting that is narrow-minded of course. 

Right, and looking beyond "just because" should be what is happening here.

 

And it is - the cliff notes explanation is that these blokes are growing up in a time where life isn't quite so easy for them purely because of who they are than it would have been a few decades ago. And rather than doing the extra work to get by in such a world, they instead grow resentment at those from other demographics who are getting opportunities now that were "rightly theirs". Add in a toxic social media cocktail where these guys can exchange fictions about how they are being "marginalised" and how the world is against them (including all those pesky women exercising their additional freedom of choice not to go near such guys with someone elses bargepole), and you have the present situation.

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Fightforever

Fightforever

Posted
Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Buce said:

 

I'd like to think this might cause a re-think over gun ownership, but I won't hold my breath.

 

There is literally no reason whatsoever that anyone needs to own a firearm.

What baffled me the most about this shooting was he had his guns taken off him then a month before the shooting they gave them back to him. Whoever made that decision has blood on their hands.

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Dunge

Dunge

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2 hours ago, Fightforever said:

What baffled me the most about this shooting was he had his guns taken off him then a month before the shooting they gave them back to him. Whoever made that decision has blood on their hands.

I’m sure whoever decided regrets it massively, but I think that’s a statement too far.

From what I understand of it, he faced an allegation of some sort - assault or something like that - and got stripped of his gun when that was investigated. I don’t think you can have a system where someone’s punished because someone either doesn’t like them or because of an allegation for which they’re not found guilty.

 

The wider question from @Buce about whether anyone should own a gun - and particularly someone without any kind of operational use for one living in a Plymouth suburb - I think is the more pertinent question here. America has a major problem in that I can’t see any way of getting rid of them for decades, so the mass shootings over there will continue. I think Brits are more persuadable.

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Finnegan

Finnegan

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, Blarmy said:

Weird though isn’t it? Any other group, we (as a society) have to explore why that group does bad things. We have to look for some reason beyond “just because”.  But when the group is “men”, that seems to be enough.

 

If the person asserting that is narrow-minded of course. 

 

It's not as simple as "men" or "white men." I don't think we should be minimising this as simply another shooting from a young white male, we need to narrow down more specifically to understand the actual subculture he comes from. 

 

I remember a couple of years ago writing chapter and verse on here after the Christchurch attack saying exactly the same thing and that's that most people don't have any idea what an incel is or why it's a dangerous phenomena but also one that needs to be handled with extreme care. 

 

It's interesting that the dialogue has changed a little bit on here at least over the last two years and now people are throwing around terms like that without prompt. But mainstream news sources still aren't really getting their heads around it and nor are the large majority of the general public. 

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Blarmy

Blarmy

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

It's not as simple as "men" or "white men." I don't think we should be minimising this as simply another shooting from a young white male, we need to narrow down more specifically to understand the actual subculture he comes from. 

 

I remember a couple of years ago writing chapter and verse on here after the Christchurch attack saying exactly the same thing and that's that most people don't have any idea what an incel is or why it's a dangerous phenomena but also one that needs to be handled with extreme care. 

 

It's interesting that the dialogue has changed a little bit on here at least over the last two years and now people are throwing around terms like that without prompt. But mainstream news sources still aren't really getting their heads around it and nor are the large majority of the general public. 

Quite right, I totally agree. But @leicsmac  said “…but *enough* men”, which I wanted to challenge. It implies that maleness alone is all that’s required for disasters like this to happen, which, as far as I am aware, is quite rightly frowned on when discussing any other group and examining causality.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Blarmy said:

Quite right, I totally agree. But @leicsmac  said “…but *enough* men”, which I wanted to challenge. It implies that maleness alone is all that’s required for disasters like this to happen, which, as far as I am aware, is quite rightly frowned on when discussing any other group and examining causality.

Then perhaps I should have been clearer on the initial posts and stated "enough men that think in the way Finn states".

 

However, given that there are precious few circumstances when a woman has proceeded on a killing spree like this, it perhaps does form one element of a complex equation - again, Finn (and myself) elaborate on that above.

 

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Dunge

Dunge

Posted
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7 hours ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-58195065

 

Good to see someone sticking it to the trolls.

Fascinating article, and I do think it’s time more was done on this front, but the example at the bottom of it I think is a great example of the problems of online vigilantism. Someone there has posted something that, while something I very much disagree with and something that I’m sure many would consider offensive, isn’t necessarily trolling and looks on the face of it like a genuinely-held belief for what they would consider the right purposes. Do they deserve to receive the same “punishment”? Who draws the line? Who watches the watchers?

 

I’m increasingly convinced that social media has grown into this beast that we’ve lost control of in the west, and that it needs to be brought back under control again. But I’m not sure this is the way to do it, despite the clearly good intentions of the troll-seekers.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

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25 minutes ago, Dunge said:

Fascinating article, and I do think it’s time more was done on this front, but the example at the bottom of it I think is a great example of the problems of online vigilantism. Someone there has posted something that, while something I very much disagree with and something that I’m sure many would consider offensive, isn’t necessarily trolling and looks on the face of it like a genuinely-held belief for what they would consider the right purposes. Do they deserve to receive the same “punishment”? Who draws the line? Who watches the watchers?

 

I’m increasingly convinced that social media has grown into this beast that we’ve lost control of in the west, and that it needs to be brought back under control again. But I’m not sure this is the way to do it, despite the clearly good intentions of the troll-seekers.

It's certainly a difficult circle to square, especially when it comes to accountability.

 

However, this entire response arose out of a need for the trolls themselves to be held accountable and the social media companies not doing a good enough job of it - either because (not cynically) they don't have the manpower or (cynically) because they know controversy generates clicks and ad revenue and so they let it happen. So while this is far from an ideal solution, I think that it solves more problems than it causes right now.

 

Oher parties do need to step up so it isn't necessary, however.

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