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[Fightforever]

22 hours ago, LiberalFox said:

I didn't know there were so many Tankies on FT.

Give it 5 years and we will have Mao apologists on here.

[leicsmac]

23 hours ago, LiberalFox said:

I didn't know there were so many Tankies on FT.

 

29 minutes ago, Fightforever said:

Give it 5 years and we will have Mao apologists on here.

I'm curious as to what the context of this comment and its reply actually is, to be honest.

 

Could someone enlighten me?

[samlcfc]

2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

I'm curious as to what the context of this comment and its reply actually is, to be honest.

 

Could someone enlighten me?

I can only recall a few comments recently in the science thread, expressing concern about the current state of global economics, whilst discussing a requirement for widespread cooperation and possible government intervention. 

 

Doesn't exactly make anyone a communist, but this is an internet forum. 

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, samlcfc said:

I can only recall a few comments recently in the science thread, expressing concern about the current state of global economics, whilst discussing a requirement for widespread cooperation and possible government intervention. 

 

Doesn't exactly make anyone a communist, but this is an internet forum. 

TBH it's patently obvious to me that on some scientific issues the choice is going to end up being between one world and no world.

 

I don't really think that's tankie as such, just future-based self-preservation.

[samlcfc]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

TBH it's patently obvious to me that on some scientific issues the choice is going to end up being between one world and no world.

 

I don't really think that's tankie as such, just future-based self-preservation.

I tend to agree. Whenever I don't, it's usually from a short-lived position of denial after considering the difficulties of breaking from the status-quo. 

[Carl the Llama]

39 minutes ago, samlcfc said:

I can only recall a few comments recently in the science thread, expressing concern about the current state of global economics, whilst discussing a requirement for widespread cooperation and possible government intervention. 

 

Doesn't exactly make anyone a communist, but this is an internet forum. 

Quite.  If you talk about the ills of capitalism it must be because you're a stalinist with an iron fist to bear against the bourgeoisie.

[Guest SO1]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

 

I'm curious as to what the context of this comment and its reply actually is, to be honest.

 

Could someone enlighten me?

There is no reply and that's the point of it. Just lazy to be calling people names instead of explaining their positions. Kind of like politics in general now to call people names who they don't agree with. Not that its ever changed really just technology making it easier to remain anonymous.  A lot of work for some of us to present their viewpoint in words(me) so I try to stay patient with others. I don't take it personally.

 

 

 

[Guest SO1]

As always my country taking the moral high ground(sarc) https://www.rt.com/op-ed/542459-cia-detention-program-afghanistan/

[Wymsey]

It's a mad world, isn't it..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-59559122

[LiberalFox]

Sorry haven't been reading the forum for a few days. Tankies is a term that was coined to describe left wing people who defended the USSR's use of force in places like Hungary and Czechoslovakia. Essentially sending tanks in, hence the term. 

 

It's a slight bugbear of mine that people are so willing to blame Russian aggression on the US or the EU when it's a Russian problem. Ukraine doesn't belong to Russia, nor do any of the other former soviet republics. 

 

 

[Countryfox]

I reckon this perfect storm of (in no particular order and to name just a few) Covid, EU weakness, Brexit, China flexing its muscles, the gas issue and Sleepy Joe in power is just too tempting for Mad Vlad so the Ukraine will be invaded within the next few months.    

[SexyGammonFox]

28 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

I reckon this perfect storm of (in no particular order and to name just a few) Covid, EU weakness, Brexit, China flexing its muscles, the gas issue and Sleepy Joe in power is just too tempting for Mad Vlad so the Ukraine will be invaded within the next few months.    

What are the odds that China does Taiwan and Russia pulls a stunt in Ukraine on the same weekend. Where would that leave the Americans? 

[Countryfox]

1 minute ago, SexyGammonFox said:

What are the odds that China does Taiwan and Russia pulls a stunt in Ukraine on the same weekend. Where would that leave the Americans? 

Jeez that would be scary (but not far fetched !) ...  and !! ...   the ugly fat dwarf in North Korea might just fall about laughing when he hears the news and land on the launch button for all his nukes !! ...   

 

We're doooomed !! ...    doomed I tell ye !! ...   

[leicsmac]

10 minutes ago, SexyGammonFox said:

What are the odds that China does Taiwan and Russia pulls a stunt in Ukraine on the same weekend. Where would that leave the Americans? 

With the possibility and capability to escalate to nuclear war with both of them at the same time.

 

Which is why neither China nor Russia will actually press the matter all that much. No one with much power wants nuclear Armageddon.

[SexyGammonFox]

2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

With the possibility and capability to escalate to nuclear war with both of them at the same time.

 

Which is why neither China nor Russia will actually press the matter all that much. No one with much power wants nuclear Armageddon.

You really think the US is going to start a nuclear war with China over Taiwan? And if you hadn't noticed, Russia have already invaded Ukraine and nothing of consequence was done by the west. They know damn well Biden won't be reaching for the nukes or even threatening it. 

[Countryfox]

2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

No one with much power wants nuclear Armageddon.

True ..  China and Russia certainly don't but they may just believe that they could invade and the west (for the same reason) would do nothing (that involved nuclear weapons). 

 

I wouldn't like to bet on it ...  

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, SexyGammonFox said:

You really think the US is going to start a nuclear war with China over Taiwan? And if you hadn't noticed, Russia have already invaded Ukraine and nothing of consequence was done by the west. They know damn well Biden won't be reaching for the nukes or even threatening it. 

 

4 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

True ..  China and Russia certainly don't but they may just believe that they could invade and the west (for the same reason) would do nothing (that involved nuclear weapons). 

 

I wouldn't like to bet on it ...  

I think the possibility is high enough for both China and Russia to not want to take the chance in the first place.

 

Look at it as a wager of sorts - you gamble, and the odds are broadly if not significantly in your favour to win a decent-sized prize. However, if you do lose, you lose far far more than you would have gained, or what you have now.

 

Putin and Xi are pragmatic if nothing else, and they know this. There's a reason the major powers didn't go head-to-head in a massively direct way during the Cold War once they had nuclear capability and just used proxy wars instead. MAD. A perfect acronym if ever there was one.

[Countryfox]

13 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

I think the possibility is high enough for both China and Russia to not want to take the chance in the first place.

 

Look at it as a wager of sorts - you gamble, and the odds are broadly if not significantly in your favour to win a decent-sized prize. However, if you do lose, you lose far far more than you would have gained, or what you have now.

 

Putin and Xi are pragmatic if nothing else, and they know this. There's a reason the major powers didn't go head-to-head in a massively direct way during the Cold War once they had nuclear capability and just used proxy wars instead. MAD. A perfect acronym if ever there was one.

 

Well if Putin is only trying to scare us by massing more and more troops and equipment on the border he is doing a bloody good job !   

 

I think all the dabbling he has been doing in Western affairs from covertly pushing division between countries to more blatant issues like the gas situation are all to bring us to this point ...  his dream is to regain as much of the old USSR as possible.   

[SexyGammonFox]

18 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

I think the possibility is high enough for both China and Russia to not want to take the chance in the first place.

 

Look at it as a wager of sorts - you gamble, and the odds are broadly if not significantly in your favour to win a decent-sized prize. However, if you do lose, you lose far far more than you would have gained, or what you have now.

 

Putin and Xi are pragmatic if nothing else, and they know this. There's a reason the major powers didn't go head-to-head in a massively direct way during the Cold War once they had nuclear capability and just used proxy wars instead. MAD. A perfect acronym if ever there was one.

As I said Putin already invaded, nothing happened. He'll get what he wants out of this situation, which is probably just assurances about NATO not admitting Ukraine + approval of Nord Stream. One thing is for sure, he'll be one step ahead of the dunce leaders running the west.

 

Worryingly, Xi's very firmly on record about the future of Taiwan. If he doesn't succeed it will be a big black mark next to his legacy as he see's it.  

 

[Finnegan]

Don't think the term Tankie in its generally accepted current usage really applies to SO1.

 

I apologise if I'm getting my foxestalkers mixed up but isn't SO1 more of a right leaning, Trump voting, catch all conspiracy theorist? I'd have thought he was fairly anti communist and a lot more tinfoil hat "libertarian"? Like a Septic El Empty. 

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Countryfox said:

 

Well if Putin is only trying to scare us by massing more and more troops and equipment on the border he is doing a bloody good job !   

 

I think all the dabbling he has been doing in Western affairs from covertly pushing division between countries to more blatant issues like the gas situation are all to bring us to this point ...  his dream is to regain as much of the old USSR as possible.   

I'm sorry, I'm not getting there. Being subtle has been beneficial for him so far, why suddenly abandon that in favour of the heavy mob and risk everything? He doesn't strike me as a chancer of that type, skilled at brinkmanship he is. There are other ways to exercise dominion over a country you used to control, after all.

 

1 minute ago, SexyGammonFox said:

As I said Putin already invaded, nothing happened. He'll get what he wants out of this situation, which is probably just assurances about NATO not admitting Ukraine + approval of Nord Stream. One thing is for sure, he'll be one step ahead of the dunce leaders running the west.

 

Worryingly, Xi's very firmly on record about the future of Taiwan. If he doesn't succeed it will be a big black mark next to his legacy as he see's it.  

 

Agreed regarding Putin and what he wants here. He's not going to roll the tanks into Kiev, just seek the assurances you say here. I gotta ask though; what would a smart leader running the West do in this situation? Just all seems like a very dangerous game of realpolitik to me.

 

WRT Xi, there may well come a day where he chooses between his legacy and the risk of leaving behind an irradiated, much weaker China than he took charge of, because I don't see how the US or China would back down over Taiwan once the shooting started, not without unacceptably losing face. I wonder which way he will go?

[Countryfox]

11 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I'm sorry, I'm not getting there. Being subtle has been beneficial for him so far, why suddenly abandon that in favour of the heavy mob and risk everything? He doesn't strike me as a chancer of that type, skilled at brinkmanship he is. There are other ways to exercise dominion over a country you used to control, after all.

 

Let's just hope you are right Mac ...  

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

Let's just hope you are right Mac ...  

I hope that I am too. Or whichever one of us is, that results in the least loss for all concerned.

[Guest SO1]

26 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Don't think the term Tankie in its generally accepted current usage really applies to SO1.

 

I apologise if I'm getting my foxestalkers mixed up but isn't SO1 more of a right leaning, Trump voting, catch all conspiracy theorist? I'd have thought he was fairly anti communist and a lot more tinfoil hat "libertarian"? Like a Septic El Empty. 

Trump voting .... only once and that turned out to be a mistake that I freely admit. At least we didnt start any new wars, that I know about, and we started pulling our proxies and troops out of the Middle East and Afghanistan. Clinton surely would have doubled down again and started more wars no doubt. The Ruling Class and its Masters must be fed no matter what the cost. And money is what war is about in the US IMO. This sums up my feelings of why I voted for Trump the first time https://www.resilience.org/stories/2016-01-21/donald-trump-and-the-politics-of-resentment/

 

 Really don't know what right or left really stand for anymore. 30 yrs ago I did but now they seem to just describe one extreme or the other. I care about all people.

 

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/communism.asp

I consider myself open to some parts of communism/ socialism or other systems of government that might work better for all of us and the planet. Whatever we have now isn't close to working.

 

Conspiracy Theory.....One mans truth is another mans Conspiracy Theory. All depends on where you get your info. And sometimes my instincts are better than the NY Times and the WMD lies that Judith Miller wrote about to get us into Iraq. I am however intently interested in UFO's and people who have experienced their visitation. Thats something the NYTimes can back me up on (UFO's not experiencers). JFK?. Had to throw that on.

 

Libertarian? Really? "I am my brothers keeper" Thats what I believe at least although its hard to watch what goes on in the world. If only I could keep my head in the sand

 

Septic El Empty? I guess that's where we're at as a society. Speaking past each other calling people names. Unwilling to do the hard work necessary to search for an understanding of a problem. For myself its trying to see the world through their eyes.

 

Just wanted to give a better picture for anyone who wanted to throw some more names and one liners.

Still a Brendan Rodgers fan as well.

[Guest SO1]

On 05/12/2021 at 17:02, Heathrow fox said:

East Ukraine situation getting a bit dodgy  ain’t it?

See what you've done now.This thread was perfectly quiet on this issue for months....... until this post.