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Countryfox

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By Countryfox, in General Chat

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fox_favourite

fox_favourite

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, doverfox said:

Do you believe North Korea,  Cuba and Iran should be allowed nuclear weapons for their own protection, If the government determines it in their own best interest. The west has its own double standards and agendas when and if Russia take Ukraine, China will be watching and eyeing up their disputed territories.

Hence my comment on when it will end! 
 

I so hope it doesn’t, but this could get out of control very, very quickly. Where does it stop? And that scares me the most. 
 

I hate the world we are in now!! January 2019 seems a ray of sunshine and now that has set and since clouds have formed. 

Edited by fox_favourite
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Heathrow fox

Heathrow fox

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, leicsmac said:

I'm going to be honest, simply picking a different side to cheerlead for in this particular piece of sad idiocy (as opposed to, say, none at all) quite possibly isn't all the "rethink" it's posited to be here.

Hold on a minute.You picked yr side the minute you endorsed Joe Biden.

Obama/Clinton/Biden love war.You knew that.Surely 

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, Heathrow fox said:

Hold on a minute.You picked yr side the minute you endorsed Joe Biden.

Obama/Clinton/Biden love war.You knew that.Surely 

And the various Repub administrations don't love war? There is no difference between them on that metric.

 

Therefore, those things being equal, yes, I'll choose the option that takes a natural threat that would make this potential conflict look like a fight in a kids playpen just a little more seriously. Or in any way seriously at all. (That being said, they're not taking it very seriously right now, are they?)

 

I find it difficult to express in written language just how stupid I believe such ridiculous squabbles over parts of the Earth and determinism regarding them to be at a time when the whole thing is increasing temperature at a rate that should terrify and be the absolute priority of any sane leader.

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Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, MPH said:

bit hypocritical of them isn’t it?

They see Ukraine and Belarus as very much in their Sphere of influence, much like we might with Ireland.  If Ireland declared it was leaving the EU to join a Russian military alliance, with troops potentially stationed on the NI border we might be a little uncomfortable.  I do think keeping a buffer zone between Eastern and Western Europe is not a bad idea.  I suppose technically they might point to a certain German invasion just about in living memory which cost a lot of Russian lives.

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Tommy Fresh

Tommy Fresh

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

They see Ukraine and Belarus as very much in their Sphere of influence, much like we might with Ireland.  If Ireland declared it was leaving the EU to join a Russian military alliance, with troops potentially stationed on the NI border we might be a little uncomfortable.  I do think keeping a buffer zone between Eastern and Western Europe is not a bad idea.  I suppose technically they might point to a certain German invasion just about in living memory which cost a lot of Russian lives.

It's a cycle isn't it, Ukraine like the idea of joining precisely for situations like this but the main reason for this situation is due to them possibly joining. Also the previous trouble, think they were keen on a warm water port.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

It's a cycle isn't it, Ukraine like the idea of joining precisely for situations like this but the main reason for this situation is due to them possibly joining. Also the previous trouble, think they were keen on a warm water port.

That would make sense, but from a geopolitical military standpoint you wonder how much use a warm water port inside of two big chokepoints (Istanbul and Gibraltar) would be to them.

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Tommy Fresh

Tommy Fresh

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

That would make sense, but from a geopolitical military standpoint you wonder how much use a warm water port inside of two big chokepoints (Istanbul and Gibraltar) would be to them.

If you haven't read it, give Prisoners of Geography by Tim Marshall a read talks about Crimea and how important the port actually is

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SpacedX

SpacedX

Posted
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Posted
12 hours ago, SO1 said:

No. The Ukraine does not have the right to commit genocide and other assorted war crimes war crimes of Russian speaking people in its country.

What??? Do you actually understand what the term genocide means? Holodomor would be a good place to start. 

 

"Assorted war crimes"? What the **** are you talking about?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Foxdiamond

Foxdiamond

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

They see Ukraine and Belarus as very much in their Sphere of influence, much like we might with Ireland.  If Ireland declared it was leaving the EU to join a Russian military alliance, with troops potentially stationed on the NI border we might be a little uncomfortable.  I do think keeping a buffer zone between Eastern and Western Europe is not a bad idea.  I suppose technically they might point to a certain German invasion just about in living memory which cost a lot of Russian lives.

Not forgetting Ukraine lives

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MPH

MPH

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

They see Ukraine and Belarus as very much in their Sphere of influence, much like we might with Ireland.  If Ireland declared it was leaving the EU to join a Russian military alliance, with troops potentially stationed on the NI border we might be a little uncomfortable.  I do think keeping a buffer zone between Eastern and Western Europe is not a bad idea.  I suppose technically they might point to a certain German invasion just about in living memory which cost a lot of Russian lives.


 

 you’ve left out the point that NATO is a voluntary alliance that nations apply to join and are approved / accepted . Russia gave Crimea  and Ukaine no choice and moved into Ukrainian territory by force, killing those that tried to defend it.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Corky said:

Completely outdated views "justified" by an ancient book.

 

Pathetic.

A part of that ancient book that a newer part of it instructed to mostly ignore, no less. What about those shellfish and dyed garments?

 

Ridiculous all round, really.

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SpacedX

SpacedX

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SO1 said:

Feels a little different now doesn't it. https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/24/europe/russia-naval-exercise-ireland-intl/index.html

This isn't Iraq, Syria or Yemen etc etc etc.

Different to what?

 

Russia have been encroaching on UK sovereign airspace and buzzing these shores for decades. In 2015, RAF Typhoons were scrambled to intercept two Russian Tupolev Tu-95 'Bear' bombers that flew up the Solent. In fact after Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine in 2014 they then immediately staged Arctic military exercises including maritime manoeuvres with ballistic missile-capable vessels present. The response in Oslo was that these were clear messages from Moscow, do not be part of NATO's ballistic-missile defence. The UK is surrounded by a ring of Russian submarines. The Kola Peninsula, home to its Northern Fleet. Russia has also carried out similar manoeuvres in recent months, staging a major submarine exercise in the North Atlantic 2021. Russian kilo class submarines were spotted in the Irish sea last spring. RFS Rostov Na Donu, was tracked as it moved through the North Sea and the English Channel in February of last year. Russian vessels are frequently spotted in either the English Channel or the North Sea, with 150 recorded occasions of ships being detected by the UK since 2013. We'll overlook the state sponsored assassinations, sorry, sightseeing on these shores

 

Why are you so eager to portray NATO as the aggressor here? NATO is a defensive alliance and its remit is to protect its member states. All Allies reaffirmed at the June 2021 Brussels Summit that “the Alliance does not seek confrontation and poses no threat to Russia.” Pointedly, in 2002 President Putin himself stated “Every country has the right to choose the way it ensures its security. This holds for the Baltic states as well. Secondly, and more specifically, NATO is primarily a defensive bloc.”

 

On the contrary, deploying more than 100,000 Russian troops, including elite combat forces, a a substantial portion of its eastern army 4,000 miles away, and offensive weaponry with no plausible explanation, to the borders of a country that Russia has previously invaded and still occupies in places is no war game or exercise. It is a unequivocal, renewed threat from Moscow to Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. The buildup is paired with the usual active disinformation campaign designed to undermine confidence in the Ukrainian government, divide Europe and create a pretext for further Russian incursion however that may manifest itself. 

 

You didn't answer the question, I guess it must have slipped your mind. What "genocide" and what "assorted war crimes" committed by Ukraine are you referring to?

Edited by Line-X
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fox_favourite

fox_favourite

Posted
Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Different to what?

 

Russia have been encroaching on UK sovereign airspace and buzzing these shores for decades. In 2015, RAF Typhoons were scrambled to intercept two Russian Tupolev Tu-95 'Bear' bombers that flew up the Solent. In fact after Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine in 2014 they then immediately staged Arctic military exercises including maritime manoeuvres with ballistic missile-capable vessels present. The response in Oslo was that these were clear messages from Moscow, do not be part of NATO's ballistic-missile defence. The UK is surrounded by a ring of Russian submarines. The Kola Peninsula, home to its Northern Fleet. Russia has also carried out similar manoeuvres in recent months, staging a major submarine exercise in the North Atlantic 2021. Russian kilo class submarines were spotted in the Irish sea last spring. RFS Rostov Na Donu, was tracked as it moved through the North Sea and the English Channel in February of last year. Russian vessels are frequently spotted in either the English Channel or the North Sea, with 150 recorded occasions of ships being detected by the UK since 2013. We'll overlook the state sponsored assassinations, sorry, sightseeing on these shores

 

Why are you so eager to portray NATO as the aggressor here? NATO is a defensive alliance and its remit is to protect its member states. All Allies reaffirmed at the June 2021 Brussels Summit that “the Alliance does not seek confrontation and poses no threat to Russia.” Pointedly, in 2002 President Putin himself stated “Every country has the right to choose the way it ensures its security. This holds for the Baltic states as well. Secondly, and more specifically, NATO is primarily a defensive bloc.”

 

On the contrary, deploying more than 100,000 Russian troops, including elite combat forces, a a substantial portion of its eastern army 4,000 miles away, and offensive weaponry with no plausible explanation, to the borders of a country that Russia has previously invaded and still occupies in places is no war game or exercise. It is a unequivocal, renewed threat from Moscow to Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. The buildup is paired with the usual active disinformation campaign designed to undermine confidence in the Ukrainian government, divide Europe and create a pretext for further Russian incursion however that may manifest itself. 

 

You didn't answer the question, I guess it must have slipped your mind. What "genocide" and what "assorted war crimes" committed by Ukraine are you referring to?

 

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Foxdiamond

Foxdiamond

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, fox_favourite said:

Also to add that one of Russia’s demands is that Ukraine never joins NATO. NATO knew this might stoke trouble so haven’t advanced on this and they don’t meet the minimum recommendations to join, so it was unlikely to happen anyway. You can’t join NATO while there is conflict in the country. 
 

Countries like Poland, Latvia etc…joined Europe as it was, rightly or wrongly, the better option for them at the time for their country to be successful. Some of these made their own choice. Some may be influenced but we don’t know for sure. 
 

Russia’s general tactic is to deny things are happening, and turn the blame on others to make them seem the aggressor. Did Russia have Devine right to annex part of another country, no. A diplomatic solution could have been used. Again, at the beginning, they said nope not us even though it was know their troops were in the country. Then when it was all over they admitted it.

 

They have been “playing games” for a while. Testing boarders with “oops sorry we got so close to your country”. If you look how many times has NATO done that to Russia, let me know as I genuinely don’t know. Now on the coast of Ireland…funny that. Not all this is a coincidence, just happens. 
 

I do agree that having a, like someone else suggested, a buffer between the two. But this was always going to happen. If it wasn’t Ukraine it would be another country being too close to NATO or Russia. 

The language used by US, UK and others has added to the game that Russia wants to play. Make them sound like the aggressors. 
 

It’s very scary and not a situation that we need right now. But people want power, want dominance and unfortunately this was going to happen at some point. I just want the world to go back to a peaceful time. A time where all I had to worry about is work. 

There was a brief honeymoon period when the Berlin Wall came down . End of Cold War and freedom for those on other side of iron curtain. Then world became more scary with terror as middle east problems persist and so on. Now China and Russia flexing might again.

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fox_favourite

fox_favourite

Posted
Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

There was a brief honeymoon period when the Berlin Wall came down . End of Cold War and freedom for those on other side of iron curtain. Then world became more scary with terror as middle east problems persist and so on. Now China and Russia flexing might again.

And who is, in the end actually going to benefit from a world conflict? Or either of those countries starting a conflict? Every country will suffer, the planet will suffer, it’s all very selfish. I hate all this. If they want world domination, then there won’t be much of one left whether that is financially or physically 

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Foxdiamond

Foxdiamond

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, fox_favourite said:

And who is, in the end actually going to benefit from a world conflict? Or either of those countries starting a conflict? Every country will suffer, the planet will suffer, it’s all very selfish. I hate all this. If they want world domination, then there won’t be much of one left whether that is financially or physically 

I do agree. Hard to fathom what drives this quest for domination. All to easy to start a war but a lot harder to stop the conflict. Let us hope cool heads will prevail  

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