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[urban.spaceman]

This is looking very, very serious. 

 

 

 

[Wymsey]

The details on this on the Wikipedia page was quite awful to read..

[urban.spaceman]

1 minute ago, Wymsey said:

The details on this on the Wikipedia page was quite awful to read..

It's mainly just a transcript of the audio file that was leaked.

 

They've smartly locked the page so nobody can edit it and prejudice a trial.

 

He could be going away for a LONG time. I sincerely hope.

[foxile5]

4 hours ago, st albans fox said:

 

And a few days later, whoopee Goldberg tries to justify a comment that the holocaust wasn't about race because jews aren't black .........  ignorance is everywhere and dangerous if not challenged.  . 

Yeah I saw that. What's the bone of contention between the black communities and the Jewish folk? 

[st albans fox]

24 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

Yeah I saw that. What's the bone of contention between the black communities and the Jewish folk? 

I’m not aware of anything …….

[foxile5]

54 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

I’m not aware of anything …….

Fair enough. I don't know enough to suggest anything. Just seems odd. Not sure what Goldberg was thinking. 

[Jon the Hat]

9 hours ago, foxile5 said:

Yeah I saw that. What's the bone of contention between the black communities and the Jewish folk? 

I think she was referring to the fact that while Jews were the most impacted, there were many other groups including black people, disabled people etc who were also victims and are often overlooked.  She is wrong though to say it was not about race.

[st albans fox]

4 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

I think she was referring to the fact that while Jews were the most impacted, there were many other groups including black people, disabled people etc who were also victims and are often overlooked.  She is wrong though to say it was not about race.

She said that it involved ‘two groups of white people’ - the obvious deduction being that only non white people can suffer racism ……. it’s an awful perspective for someone apparently ‘educated’ and with a public platform to have ……

[Jon the Hat]

2 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

She said that it involved ‘two groups of white people’ - the obvious deduction being that only non white people can suffer racism ……. it’s an awful perspective for someone apparently ‘educated’ and with a public platform to have ……

Yeah I saw that earlier.  Not that unusual a view I fear.

[String fellow]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

She said that it involved ‘two groups of white people’ - the obvious deduction being that only non white people can suffer racism ……. it’s an awful perspective for someone apparently ‘educated’ and with a public platform to have ……

On top of that, I wouldn't expect anyone with the surname Goldberg to make such a crass comment about the Jewish race. 

[Finnegan]

16 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

He could be going away for a LONG time. I sincerely hope.

 

Prepare for disappointment. 

 

As soon as this gets to the point of charges pressed and trial dates pending, his massively wealthy lawyers will start absolutely destroying this girl, her image, her reputation, picking apart all her evidence, painting her as a gold digger, slut shaming her. 

 

Meanwhile going on some huge PR spin campaign about the stresses of being a young footballer in the national spotlight, no doubt he probably had a hard upbringing and they've just discovered he's got X Y and Z mental health issues that he's been oh so bravely fighting. Oh and have you seen this bruise and this bruise that she did to him? 

 

Probably get a tiny ass sentence after all of it, serve half and wind up playing for some scumbag club like Leeds or West Ham before he's even in his prime. 

[Dunge]

Regarding Whoopi Goldberg - I post this without presenting it as my opinion, not my opinion or otherwise, just as a statement: I have seen and heard a school of thought that racism is, and indeed can, only be a thing when it’s perpetrated by white people against black people. So it occurs to me that she might have said what she did from that perspective rather than having anything specific against Jews.

[st albans fox]

43 minutes ago, String fellow said:

On top of that, I wouldn't expect anyone with the surname Goldberg to make such a crass comment about the Jewish race. 

she doesn’t look very Jewish to me …. Unless she has v specific Ethiopian ancestry (which she doesn’t) - she wasn’t born with that surname and it seems a bit weird how she adopted it via her mum  …
 

from wiki 

‘She has stated that her stage forename ("Whoopi") was taken from a whoopee cushion: "When you're performing on stage, you never really have time to go into the bathroom and close the door. So if you get a little gassy, you've got to let it go. So people used to say to me, 'You're like a whoopee cushion.' And that's where the name came from."^[15]

About her stage surname, she claimed in 2011, "My mother did not name me Whoopi, but Goldberg is my name—it's part of my family, part of my heritage, just like being black", and "I just know I am Jewish. I practice nothing. I don't go to temple, but I do remember the holidays."^[16] She has stated that "people would say 'Come on, are you Jewish?' And I always say 'Would you ask me that if I was white? I bet not.'"^[16] One account recalls that her mother, Emma Johnson, thought the family's original surname was "not Jewish enough" for her daughter to become a star.^[16] Researcher Henry Louis Gates Jr. found that all of Goldberg's traceable ancestors were African Americans, that she had no known German or Jewish ancestry, and that none of her ancestors were named Goldberg.^[12] Results of a DNA test, revealed in the 2006 PBSdocumentary African American Lives, traced part of her ancestry to the Papel and Bayote people of modern-day Guinea-Bissau. Her admixture test indicates that she is of 92 percent sub-Saharan Africanorigin and of 8 percent European origin.^[17]’

[urban.spaceman]

14 minutes ago, Dunge said:

Regarding Whoopi Goldberg - I post this without presenting it as my opinion, not my opinion or otherwise, just as a statement: I have seen and heard a school of thought that racism is, and indeed can, only be a thing when it’s perpetrated by white people against black people. So it occurs to me that she might have said what she did from that perspective rather than having anything specific against Jews.

That was my take on it too.

[urban.spaceman]

47 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Prepare for disappointment. 

 

As soon as this gets to the point of charges pressed and trial dates pending, his massively wealthy lawyers will start absolutely destroying this girl, her image, her reputation, picking apart all her evidence, painting her as a gold digger, slut shaming her. 

 

Meanwhile going on some huge PR spin campaign about the stresses of being a young footballer in the national spotlight, no doubt he probably had a hard upbringing and they've just discovered he's got X Y and Z mental health issues that he's been oh so bravely fighting. Oh and have you seen this bruise and this bruise that she did to him? 

 

Probably get a tiny ass sentence after all of it, serve half and wind up playing for some scumbag club like Leeds or West Ham before he's even in his prime. 

I sincerely hope you're wrong, because there'd be public anger like the Sarah Everard reaction if he was to get off lightly. The audio is pretty damning, so unless they're able to prove it's fake or manipulated or superseded by something else then I would hope he's made an absolute example of. Some people have wrongly expressed sadness of him losing his career - I really hope he does lose his career to show to people there are massive consequences of being a rapist.

[Finnegan]

2 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

I sincerely hope you're wrong, because there'd be public anger like the Sarah Everard reaction if he was to get off lightly. The audio is pretty damning, so unless they're able to prove it's fake or manipulated or superseded by something else then I would hope he's made an absolute example of. Some people have wrongly expressed sadness of him losing his career - I really hope he does lose his career to show to people there are massive consequences of being a rapist.

 

Of course I agree with all of this. I'm fine if he gets fired in to the sun and we never see or hear from him again.

 

I'm just wildly cynical and we've seen far too many rapists either entirely or relatively get away with it.

[st albans fox]

 

 

24 minutes ago, Dunge said:

Regarding Whoopi Goldberg - I post this without presenting it as my opinion, not my opinion or otherwise, just as a statement: I have seen and heard a school of thought that racism is, and indeed can, only be a thing when it’s perpetrated by white people against black people. So it occurs to me that she might have said what she did from that perspective rather than having anything specific against Jews.

we can all have various ‘schools of thought’ - it doesn’t make them right or wrong unless they’re checked out 

 

this is obviously nonsense -, it’s arguable that in a couple hundred years when the majority of the globe is likely populated by those of mixed race heritage, there will be few who can claim to be of a single ‘genetic race’.  of course the few ‘races’ left will probably be very exposed if we haven’t moved on from the ‘othering’ that’s so common amongst us. 
 

 

[urban.spaceman]

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Of course I agree with all of this. I'm fine if he gets fired in to the sun and we never see or hear from him again.

 

I'm just wildly cynical and we've seen far too many rapists either entirely or relatively get away with it.

I think we can all agree this is your best feature.

[ClaphamFox]

12 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Of course I agree with all of this. I'm fine if he gets fired in to the sun and we never see or hear from him again.

 

I'm just wildly cynical and we've seen far too many rapists either entirely or relatively get away with it.

He's been released on bail pending further investigations. I'm surprised the police don't feel they have enough to charge him.

 

Released

[Finnegan]

2 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

He's been released on bail pending further investigations. I'm surprised the police don't feel they have enough to charge him.

 

Released

 

I mean, it was highly unlikely he'd be detained from now until his trial.

 

Shit, Benjamin Mendy is accused of raping half of Manchester and he's out on bail pending his trial.

 

Edited 2 February 2022 by Finnegan

[ClaphamFox]

1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

 

I mean, it was highly unlikely he'd be detained from now until his trial.

 

Shit, Benjamin Mendy is accused of raping half of Manchester and he's out on bail pending his trial.

 

I wasn’t suggesting he should be detained indefinitely without being charged. I was expressing surprise at the fact that the police haven’t charged him with anything given the evidence made public.

[NasPb]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

she doesn’t look very Jewish to me …. Unless she has v specific Ethiopian ancestry (which she doesn’t) - she wasn’t born with that surname and it seems a bit weird how she adopted it via her mum  …
 

from wiki 

‘She has stated that her stage forename ("Whoopi") was taken from a whoopee cushion: "When you're performing on stage, you never really have time to go into the bathroom and close the door. So if you get a little gassy, you've got to let it go. So people used to say to me, 'You're like a whoopee cushion.' And that's where the name came from."^[15]

About her stage surname, she claimed in 2011, "My mother did not name me Whoopi, but Goldberg is my name—it's part of my family, part of my heritage, just like being black", and "I just know I am Jewish. I practice nothing. I don't go to temple, but I do remember the holidays."^[16] She has stated that "people would say 'Come on, are you Jewish?' And I always say 'Would you ask me that if I was white? I bet not.'"^[16] One account recalls that her mother, Emma Johnson, thought the family's original surname was "not Jewish enough" for her daughter to become a star.^[16] Researcher Henry Louis Gates Jr. found that all of Goldberg's traceable ancestors were African Americans, that she had no known German or Jewish ancestry, and that none of her ancestors were named Goldberg.^[12] Results of a DNA test, revealed in the 2006 PBSdocumentary African American Lives, traced part of her ancestry to the Papel and Bayote people of modern-day Guinea-Bissau. Her admixture test indicates that she is of 92 percent sub-Saharan Africanorigin and of 8 percent European origin.^[17]’

I'm not Jewish and i don't defend anything that she said or whatever but some have to understand that Jewish isn't just European Jewish from Eastern Europe lol, there are berber jews, Ethiopian jews, Indian jews, sefardis... Etcétera. Along with yemenise and others lol. 

Edited 2 February 2022 by NasPb

[st albans fox]

12 minutes ago, NasPb said:

I'm not Jewish and i don't defend anything that she said or whatever but you lot have to understand that Jewish isn't just European Jewish from Eastern Europe lol, there are berber jews, Ethiopian jews, Indian jews, sefardis... Etcétera. Along with yemenise and others lol. 

I know - some of us lot will and some won’t …..

the conversation ref WG is to do with a specific event in history which was euro Jewry (Ashkenazi and sefardi).  

 

Edited 2 February 2022 by st albans fox

[NasPb]

7 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

I know - some of us lot will and some won’t …..

 

 

My apologies the language i used was a bit vulgar. It just annoys me when people (not like you) try and simplify such complex things. It's like when people ask if urdu farsi or Kurdish or even hausa are arabic because they're written in the ajami or Persian alphabets. It's important to get things like this correct. 

[thursday_next]

On 28/01/2022 at 15:09, Finnaldo said:

I do remember reading an article once, although I’d struggle to find it again, about a black German during the Nazi era. It was quite interesting because he bought into the Nazi’s belief as a child in the thirties, it wasn’t until he was also ‘othered’ and not allowed to serve in the Wehrmacht that he began to realise the extent of Nazism, and even then I believe he ended up serving in some form for the German war effort.

I can't help being reminded of 'Gravity's Rainbow' by Thomas Pynchon, which probably has the best plot of all time. Part of it refers to the British secret services trying to make up a shaggy dog's tail, to be broadcasted to Germany, informing them that there are black people working on the V2 rocket. This turns out to be true, improbably.

 

The Germans brought them to Europe as survivors of the genocide carried on by General von Trotha against the Herero people of German South-West Africa as butlers and monstrosities and the like. Their descendents show an unhealthy interest in the V2 rocket, as would be expected, and the immediate post-war period of Germany being divided into zones shows the Schwartzkommando being nimble on their feet gathering bits and pieces of crashed V2's in order to make one of their own.

 

Nobody disarms them, the English are perfectly content to let the Americans do the job, and the Americans are quite happy to leave it to the Russians. We leave the Schwartzkommando in a mad lorry train descending on Lüneburg Heath in an attempt to fire their rocket. I have no idea whether the Africans fired their rocket or not or who they were supposed to be firing it at. Nevertheless, I think it stands as a parable. The Americans and Russians were going all out to have the Rocket - why shouldn't the black people have it too?