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Countryfox

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By Countryfox, in General Chat

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String fellow

String fellow

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

she doesn’t look very Jewish to me …. Unless she has v specific Ethiopian ancestry (which she doesn’t) - she wasn’t born with that surname and it seems a bit weird how she adopted it via her mum  …

Thanks for the info on how she got her surname. Tbh, whenever that word is mentioned, I immediately think about Bach's wonderful Goldberg Variations!

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Brizzle Fox

Brizzle Fox

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Dunge said:

Regarding Whoopi Goldberg - I post this without presenting it as my opinion, not my opinion or otherwise, just as a statement: I have seen and heard a school of thought that racism is, and indeed can, only be a thing when it’s perpetrated by white people against black people. So it occurs to me that she might have said what she did from that perspective rather than having anything specific against Jews.

I think there may be an element of truth to this from her perspective anyway.

 

Also I suppose you could contextualise it in the broader context of the American experience of racial victimisation,  which historically is very different probably from the European experience, in that it is very much focused on the slave experience and therefore white onto black racism. 

 

I saw Baddiel do quite a good explainer of the whiteness question in the context of the Jewish experience, specifically as it plays out through the, extremeist perspective. For the fascist right not white enough (e.g. Not Aryan) and for the fascist left much too white (e.g. The infamous racist trope of the Jews controlling all of the wealth, power etc in the world. The ultimate white oppressors). 

 

If I remember correctly he builds this his out further in his latest book which is a pretty good and thought provoking read. 

 

Back to Whoopi it was commendable that she came out and apologised but then seemed to double down when she went on a late night talk show yesterday. I just don't think she gets it, rather than any sense of malicousness though. 

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ClaphamFox

ClaphamFox

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32 minutes ago, Brizzle Fox said:

I think there may be an element of truth to this from her perspective anyway.

 

Also I suppose you could contextualise it in the broader context of the American experience of racial victimisation,  which historically is very different probably from the European experience, in that it is very much focused on the slave experience and therefore white onto black racism. 

 

I saw Baddiel do quite a good explainer of the whiteness question in the context of the Jewish experience, specifically as it plays out through the, extremeist perspective. For the fascist right not white enough (e.g. Not Aryan) and for the fascist left much too white (e.g. The infamous racist trope of the Jews controlling all of the wealth, power etc in the world. The ultimate white oppressors). 

 

If I remember correctly he builds this his out further in his latest book which is a pretty good and thought provoking read. 

 

Back to Whoopi it was commendable that she came out and apologised but then seemed to double down when she went on a late night talk show yesterday. I just don't think she gets it, rather than any sense of malicousness though. 

He's very succint on the topic:
 

 

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LiberalFox

LiberalFox

Posted
Posted

The Goldberg thing started with a Tennessee school board banning the the graphic novel "Maus". - https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/27/us/maus-banned-holocaust-tennessee.html

 

This article puts her comments into context:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60209527

 

Goldberg was wrong in her comments but I do feel a little uncomfortable the way this is being exploited and presented. 

 

Ultimately race is an entirely social construct. In the US it's almost exclusively used to refer to colour. 

 

"Goldberg continued: "But you're missing the point! The minute you turn it into race, it goes down this alley. Let's talk about it for what it is. It's how people treat each other. It's a problem." "

 

I think this is the most telling part. 

 

My take would be that as a black person in the US she's probably been conditioned to avoid talking about racism directly. 

 

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HighPeakFox

HighPeakFox

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

He's very succint on the topic:
 

 

I wouldn't dare to try and take him on on such a difficult topic - and this is coming from someone of Sephardic stock. He's absolutely right - I wish though that he would also speak out against those who call ANY justifiable criticism of anyone Jewish as anti-semitism, when in fact the criticism has nothing to do with their Jewishness.

 

I used to work with a Jewish lady, whose ultimate dismissal of a Jewish view of Israel counter to hers was to tarnish them as an 'anti-semitic Jew', which if you think about it is one of the most reductive, despicable things you can say to someone making a reasonable case. Plus, and ironically, it is actually itsself anti-semitic.

Edited by HighPeakFox
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String fellow

String fellow

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The awful situation of the 5yo boy having fallen down a well in Morocco, and the attempt to rescue him, remind me of a similar event 40 years ago in Frascati in Italy. On that occasion, the desparate efforts to rescue a 6yo boy failed. The terrible problem rescuers must avoid is the boy slipping further down the well. That's what happened in Italy, in a tragedy the shocked the nation at the time.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-60244091

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FoxesDeb

FoxesDeb

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Posted
16 minutes ago, pSinatra said:

The shooting of Amir Locke by the Minneapolis Police.  The same force who did for George Floyd.

 

He wasn't even the guy they were looking for.  Executed in his own home.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/02/04/minneapolis-police-shooting-amir-locke/

 

Not sure I should have put this in the 'Absolute C**ts' thread?

That's shocking, and so sad. The bloke is asleep on his own sofa and gets shot dead just like that. The way the people in that country behave never ceases to amaze me, they call themselves civilised? The whole nation are a complete and utter joke if they think that's a remotely civilised way to live. 

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Smudge

Smudge

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, FoxesDeb said:

That's shocking, and so sad. The bloke is asleep on his own sofa and gets shot dead just like that. The way the people in that country behave never ceases to amaze me, they call themselves civilised? The whole nation are a complete and utter joke if they think that's a remotely civilised way to live. 

I don't believe for one minute that you really think that. :)

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WigstonWanderer

WigstonWanderer

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Smudge said:

I don't believe for one minute that you really think that. :)

The United States does seem to be very different from any other so called Western Democracy. Perhaps it is because it did not grow organically like European nations, but was created in violence by pioneers seizing a whole new and wonderful land from its indigenous owners, and to a large extent built in such a short time on the backs of slaves.

 

That violent pioneering spirit seems to have percolated down the centuries, perhaps in part perpetuated by ludicrous gun laws enshrined in an increasingly distorted constitution. This has resulted in the quite incredible sight of semi automatic weapons being openly carried on the streets, and is reflected in an increasingly trigger happy police force.

 

I’m sure this is a very simplistic view, and that I will take some stick from those who live over there. Clearly there are parallels with Australia, but without the gun laws it seems to have largely escaped the same fate, though the indigenous population have similarly suffered. Obviously it doesn’t apply to every citizen, but from the outside the US seems to be a very violent “dog eat dog” society.

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Smudge

Smudge

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, WigstonWanderer said:

The United States does seem to be very different from any other so called Western Democracy. Perhaps it is because it did not grow organically like European nations, but was created in violence by pioneers seizing a whole new and wonderful land from its indigenous owners, and to a large extent built in such a short time on the backs of slaves.

 

That violent pioneering spirit seems to have percolated down the centuries, perhaps in part perpetuated by ludicrous gun laws enshrined in an increasingly distorted constitution. This has resulted in the quite incredible sight of semi automatic weapons being openly carried on the streets, and is reflected in an increasingly trigger happy police force.

 

I’m sure this is a very simplistic view, and that I will take some stick from those who live over there. Clearly there are parallels with Australia, but without the gun laws it seems to have largely escaped the same fate, though the indigenous population have similarly suffered. Obviously it doesn’t apply to every citizen, but from the outside the US seems to be a very violent “dog eat dog” society.

I understand but stereotyping a nation is usually credited to old farts like me. 

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

The United States does seem to be very different from any other so called Western Democracy. Perhaps it is because it did not grow organically like European nations, but was created in violence by pioneers seizing a whole new and wonderful land from its indigenous owners, and to a large extent built in such a short time on the backs of slaves.

 

That violent pioneering spirit seems to have percolated down the centuries, perhaps in part perpetuated by ludicrous gun laws enshrined in an increasingly distorted constitution. This has resulted in the quite incredible sight of semi automatic weapons being openly carried on the streets, and is reflected in an increasingly trigger happy police force.

 

I’m sure this is a very simplistic view, and that I will take some stick from those who live over there. Clearly there are parallels with Australia, but without the gun laws it seems to have largely escaped the same fate, though the indigenous population have similarly suffered. Obviously it doesn’t apply to every citizen, but from the outside the US seems to be a very violent “dog eat dog” society.

 

53 minutes ago, Smudge said:

I understand but stereotyping a nation is usually credited to old farts like me. 

For me the US is a country of extremis - both the good and the bad.

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Smudge

Smudge

Posted
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20 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

For me the US is a country of extremis - both the good and the bad.

You would have to define your definition of an extremist. I could then tell you if I have ever met one in the 34 years I have lived in the US.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Smudge said:

You would have to define your definition of an extremist. I could then tell you if I have ever met one in the 34 years I have lived in the US.

Not extremist, extremis. I hope that I was very careful to differentiate between the two because I don't mean the former at all.

 

extremis: "in the farthest reaches".

 

What I mean by extremis that in the US, both the good and the bad get pushed to 11, which I don't think is all that far off the mark.

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Smudge

Smudge

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Not extremist, extremis. I hope that I was very careful to differentiate between the two because I don't mean the former at all.

 

extremis: "in the farthest reaches".

 

What I mean by extremis that in the US, both the good and the bad get pushed to 11, which I don't think is all that far off the mark.

Mea Culpa I read it but didn't separate the meaning. Sorry

 

 

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wardyfox86

wardyfox86

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Posted (edited)

What absolutely gut-wrenching news to hear Rayan (the Moroccan boy in the well) passed away.

 

To think of the poor boy's loneliness in his final days is truly heartbreaking. Hugging mine a little closer tonight. 

 

RIP 💔

Edited by wardyfox86
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Heathrow fox

Heathrow fox

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On 04/02/2022 at 15:54, String fellow said:

The awful situation of the 5yo boy having fallen down a well in Morocco, and the attempt to rescue him, remind me of a similar event 40 years ago in Frascati in Italy. On that occasion, the desparate efforts to rescue a 6yo boy failed. The terrible problem rescuers must avoid is the boy slipping further down the well. That's what happened in Italy, in a tragedy the shocked the nation at the time.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-60244091

 

6 minutes ago, wardyfox86 said:

What absolutely gut-wrenching news to hear Rayan (the Moroccan buy in the well) passed away.

 

To think of the poor boy's loneliness in his final days is truly heartbreaking. Hugging mine a little closer tonight. 

 

RIP 💔

Really sorry to hear that.One of my earliest news memories was of the Frascati Well incident that String Fellow posted yesterday.The thought of it terrified me.Awfully sad.

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String fellow

String fellow

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Heathrow fox said:

 

Really sorry to hear that.One of my earliest news memories was of the Frascati Well incident that String Fellow posted yesterday.The thought of it terrified me.Awfully sad.

I'm greatly saddened by this news. It's truly the stuff of nightmares. Tbh, the longer it went on, the less optimistic I became, despite the 'we're almost there' predictions of the rescuers. 

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NasPb

NasPb

Posted
Posted
58 minutes ago, wardyfox86 said:

What absolutely gut-wrenching news to hear Rayan (the Moroccan boy in the well) passed away.

 

To think of the poor boy's loneliness in his final days is truly heartbreaking. Hugging mine a little closer tonight. 

 

RIP 💔

As a moroccan it really hurts my heart. May Allah have mercy on his soul and help his family. Keep your loved ones Close. Amin. 

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