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By Countryfox, in General Chat

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Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-61160207

 

Interesting interview. No world leader is without fault, but at least this one acknowledges the nuance in international relations rather than reducing it to jingoistic "us and them" soundbites.

I can't decide if I like her.  It comes across as a little weak to me in the current environment.  Mind you given what I was saying in the I can;t believe its not the politics thread, Australia and NZ might find them selves in decades to come like Germany to Russia with an economy in hock to the Chinese.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

I can't decide if I like her.  It comes across as a little weak to me in the current environment.  Mind you given what I was saying in the I can;t believe its not the politics thread, Australia and NZ might find them selves in decades to come like Germany to Russia with an economy in hock to the Chinese.

Speaking personally, I don't think it's weak to acknowledge that the Chinese government system is horribly repressive and inimical to a lot of values, while at the same time acknowledging that system is probably here to stay for some time and factoring it into international relations. As opposed to just the former with a hint of xenophobia thrown in - which, let's face it, composes a considerable amount of "Western" commentary on China, both at low and high level.

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Finnegan

Finnegan

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61166601

 

Macron opening a slim lead on Le Pen, then.

 

That it's closer than five years ago and the far-right seems to be having an ever-increasing foothold in France is hardly good news, though.

 

Mh, maybe I'm naive but I choose to see it less as an increasing rise of the far right and more that she's a populist candidate at the easiest time in the world to be a populist candidate. 

 

There's a universal cost of living crisis, we've just had (and in many ways are still having) a global pandemic and there's a major war involving a super power on our continent. 

 

Every year the 2020s tick on the more ridiculous its getting for the average Joe (or Jacque.)

 

And there's Marine Le Pen doing what every populist demagogue in history has done, yelling about how shit life is at the moment and making baseless claims she'll never have to back up about how it would have been magically different if you'd voted for her. 

 

It's so easy to do that even Donald fvcking Trump could do it and he's a lot thicker and a lot less charismatic than Mme Le Pen, who's noticeably turned down her racist rhetoric in a wildly transparent attempt to appear Big Tent, broadening her appeal. 

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Mh, maybe I'm naive but I choose to see it less as an increasing rise of the far right and more that she's a populist candidate at the easiest time in the world to be a populist candidate. 

 

There's a universal cost of living crisis, we've just had (and in many ways are still having) a global pandemic and there's a major war involving a super power on our continent. 

 

Every year the 2020s tick on the more ridiculous its getting for the average Joe (or Jacque.)

 

And there's Marine Le Pen doing what every populist demagogue in history has done, yelling about how shit life is at the moment and making baseless claims she'll never have to back up about how it would have been magically different if you'd voted for her. 

 

It's so easy to do that even Donald fvcking Trump could do it and he's a lot thicker and a lot less charismatic than Mme Le Pen, who's noticeably turned down her racist rhetoric in a wildly transparent attempt to appear Big Tent, broadening her appeal. 

...and the fact that Melenchon came within a whisker of replacing Le Pen in the final two adds credence to this theory - I hope you're right.

 

I do worry though, the reasoning behind the far-right getting power isn't going to mean much to the people they target if they do.

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Finnegan

Finnegan

Posted
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I do worry though, the reasoning behind the far-right getting power isn't going to mean much to the people they target if they do.

 

I said Trump would never get in and Brexit would never happen so take this with a pinch of salt but I don't think she'll actually win. 

 

I mean, worryingly she might if it wasn't for the fact she can't quite escape those unfortunate ties to Putin, but regardless we're probably safe. 

 

Edited by Finnegan
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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Suzie the Fox said:

No not really but for me she is the better of 2 evils. pretty much like every politician really. They all spout shit to get into power and rarely meet upto expectations. 

 

3 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Suzie, Le Pen is an actual fascist. 

THIS.

 

1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

 

I said Trump would never get in and Brexit would never happen so take this with a pinch of salt but I don't think she'll actually win. 

 

I mean, worryingly she might if it wasn't for the fact she can't quite escape those unfortunate ties to Putin, but regardless we're probably safe. 

 

I don't think she'll win this time either, but give it five years with the world the same as it is now and I worry about then. Ditto many other places.

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Facecloth

Facecloth

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, Suzie the Fox said:

No not really but for me she is the better of 2 evils. pretty much like every politician really. They all spout shit to get into power and rarely meet upto expectations. 

I echo Finnegans response.

 

I won't pretend Macron is perfect but describing an actual fascist as the lesser of 2 evils. Really?

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LiberalFox

LiberalFox

Posted
Posted

I just hoped one positive side effect of the horrible war in Ukraine is that people would stop supporting the right wing populists who had been framing Putin as some sort of nationalist role model. Macron arguably didn't handle Putin particularly well but at least he never took his side. 

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LCFCCHRIS

LCFCCHRIS

Posted
Posted

I don't get how right wing could mean supporting Putin. Because you're then going against even what would be considered the patriotic view (condemning Putin). It would have to be extremist imo... I'm far from left wing but anyone supporting Putin can get in the bin. 

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SpacedX

SpacedX

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Suzie the Fox said:

NGL I know next to nothing about French politics (just can't stick Macron) and had no clue she was a fascist.

 

Off I pop to educate myself accordingly and listen less to my other half who actually voted for her. 

 

Unsurprisingly, look who liked your original comment. Disturbingly, I guarantee that even he did. 

 

Also look into Jean-Marie Le Pen.

 

The dislike of the liberal leaning left is so vehement amongst people like him that they would be prepared to back far right extremists and nazis - and in the US with such dangerous lunatics waiting in the wings as Taylor, Jordan, Cruz, Gaetz, Boebert - this growing populist stupidity is a danger to us all. 

Edited by Line-X
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I am Rod Hull

I am Rod Hull

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Suzie the Fox said:

NGL I know next to nothing about French politics (just can't stick Macron) and had no clue she was a fascist.

 

Off I pop to educate myself accordingly and listen less to my other half who actually voted for her. 

You must chose between opinions of people that you have never met over your other half. 

 

Who do you love and trust?

 

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bovril

bovril

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, LCFCCHRIS said:

I don't get how right wing could mean supporting Putin. Because you're then going against even what would be considered the patriotic view (condemning Putin). It would have to be extremist imo... I'm far from left wing but anyone supporting Putin can get in the bin. 

A minority of right wingers support Russia because people they don't like support Ukraine. Which is beyond pathetic because Russia is a grey, charmless petro-state where there's little better for young men to do than go join Chechen Islamists in murdering Ukranians who are actually embodying many of the ideals European right wing patriots have been advocating for for years. Yet still those same people will defend Russia essentially because people they dislike changed their facebook profile picture to a Ukrainian flag.

Edited by bovril
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Dunge

Dunge

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, I am Rod Hull said:

You must chose between opinions of people that you have never met over your other half. 

 

Who do you love and trust?

 

No, I reckon there’s a third way:

 

Look into Le Pen, her politics, history and loyalties, observe that she’s a fascist, discuss with and persuade your other half on the matter, then you have a loving couple both in sync and nobody voting for a fascist. Which means everybody wins! (Except the fascist.)

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Dunge said:

No, I reckon there’s a third way:

 

Look into Le Pen, her politics, history and loyalties, observe that she’s a fascist, discuss with and persuade your other half on the matter, then you have a loving couple both in sync and nobody voting for a fascist. Which means everybody wins! (Except the fascist.)

Yeah, the bolded part is a problem for the person that you're talking to, Dunge.

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Suzie the Fox

Suzie the Fox

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Dunge said:

No, I reckon there’s a third way:

 

Look into Le Pen, her politics, history and loyalties, observe that she’s a fascist, discuss with and persuade your other half on the matter, then you have a loving couple both in sync and nobody voting for a fascist. Which means everybody wins! (Except the fascist.)

History meaning .. her father? Her father was a massive fascist but from the little i know she is not so much that way. 

 

 

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Suzie the Fox said:

History meaning .. her father? Her father was a massive fascist but from the little i know she is not so much that way. 

 

Such things are often dressed up in fancy clothes and erudite words as a means of deception. Especially in the current times where people are more susceptible to it (as Finn talked about above).

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