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[Foxdiamond]

9 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

14 primary age kids shot dead at school in Texas …….

 

18 y o kid responsible (and dead) 

So tragic. I don’t suppose the gun laws will be changed in the US. Even if they were too many weapons in circulation. I can't fathom why so many there still insist access to guns makes them feel safer despite all the evidence to the contrary 

[Wymsey]

20 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

14 primary age kids shot dead at school in Texas …….

 

18 y o kid responsible (and dead) 

Another day in America, isn't it, though?

 

Nothing will change, as the people/businesses involved in gun laws have too much power.

[Jattdogg]

Saw this on  cnn. Absolutely stupid and pathetic train of thought. Greatest country in the world folks.  So, so sorry families are now destroyed and kids (and their teacher) are no longer here. R.I.P.

 

You cant eradicate guns but why not try? Well it's my righhhhht because some bell hundreds of years ago said so.... Blah blah blah....we can't evolve at all can we?  Sigh.

 

Soon enough these willy pullers will be carrying nuclear capable Machine guns. Bigger the better eh?

 

Ted Cruz calls school shooting "unspeakable crime"

From CNN's Jessica Dean and Ali Zaslav

Republican Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas called the shooting at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, an "unspeakable crime."

But Cruz said he still doesn’t see gun reform as a solution. Instead, he said the way to prevent this type of crime is “going after felons and fugitives and those with serious mental illness arresting them prosecuting them when they try to illegally buy firearms.”

“You know inevitably, when there's a murderer of this kind, you see politicians try to politicize it, you see Democrats and a lot of folks in the media whose immediate solution is to try to restrict the constitutional rights of law abiding citizens. That doesn't work. It's not effective. It doesn't prevent crime,” he said.

Instead, Cruz advocated for more armed law enforcement resources on school campuses.

“There's no doubt we need to do more to keep children in school safe. We know from past experience one of the most effective tool for keeping kids safe is armed law enforcement on the campus. We don't know the details of what happened at Robb Elementary School, but there will be a lot of time to examine what steps could have been taken proactively to enhance the safety and security of the school right now," he said.

[leicsmac]

32 minutes ago, Jattdogg said:

Saw this on  cnn. Absolutely stupid and pathetic train of thought. Greatest country in the world folks.  So, so sorry families are now destroyed and kids (and their teacher) are no longer here. R.I.P.

 

You cant eradicate guns but why not try? Well it's my righhhhht because some bell hundreds of years ago said so.... Blah blah blah....we can't evolve at all can we?  Sigh.

 

Soon enough these willy pullers will be carrying nuclear capable Machine guns. Bigger the better eh?

 

Ted Cruz calls school shooting "unspeakable crime"

From CNN's Jessica Dean and Ali Zaslav

Republican Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas called the shooting at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, an "unspeakable crime."

But Cruz said he still doesn’t see gun reform as a solution. Instead, he said the way to prevent this type of crime is “going after felons and fugitives and those with serious mental illness arresting them prosecuting them when they try to illegally buy firearms.”

“You know inevitably, when there's a murderer of this kind, you see politicians try to politicize it, you see Democrats and a lot of folks in the media whose immediate solution is to try to restrict the constitutional rights of law abiding citizens. That doesn't work. It's not effective. It doesn't prevent crime,” he said.

Instead, Cruz advocated for more armed law enforcement resources on school campuses.

“There's no doubt we need to do more to keep children in school safe. We know from past experience one of the most effective tool for keeping kids safe is armed law enforcement on the campus. We don't know the details of what happened at Robb Elementary School, but there will be a lot of time to examine what steps could have been taken proactively to enhance the safety and security of the school right now," he said.

I'd be more implied to believe Cancun Cruz if he were willing to oversee legislation allowing for greater mental health access/reform.

 

But he and the other Repubs aren't, so this is just window-dressing.

 

In the meantime, he and the other Repubs are at least partly culpable for this happening again and again.

 

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819576527

[marbles]

Isn’t politicizing the deaths of children, on the same day they die….. I don’t know, a little callous?

 

I guess any opportunity to take jabs at opposing parties, is always a win - isn’t it?

Edited 25 May 2022 by marbles

[leicsmac]

10 minutes ago, marbles said:

Isn’t politicizing the deaths of children, on the same day they die….. I don’t know, a little callous?

 

I guess the opportunity to take jabs at opposing parties, is always a win - isn’t it?

I'm just conjecturing here, but seeing it happen again and again while allowing nothing to happen to prevent the next one is rather more callous than pointing out the aforementioned legit political concerns.

 

I wonder what time is exactly a good time to discuss how one party consistently holds up progress on this matter when it happens so often?

[ClaphamFox]

If the US could get past a moment like Sandy Hook and do nothing, then it’s hard to see what it would take for things to change. This won’t be it, either. The fact is, the pro-gun lobby regards the mass murder of children as a price worth paying for the right to own guns. They might not put it in those terms publicly, but that is what they believe. 
 

 

Edited 25 May 2022 by ClaphamFox

[leicsmac]

12 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

If the US could get past a moment like Sandy Hook and do nothing, then it’s hard to see what it would take for things to change. This won’t be it, either. The fact is, the pro-gun lobby regards the mass murder of children as a price worth paying for the right to own guns. They might not put it in those terms publicly, but that is what they believe. 
 

 

Quite. "Collateral damage".

[marbles]

46 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I'm just conjecturing here, but seeing it happen again and again while allowing nothing to happen to prevent the next one is rather more callous than pointing out the aforementioned legit political concerns.

 

 

 

To bad you don't realize BOTH parties play a huge part in doing nothing to prevent this in the future 

 

As for legit political concerns - which part of the US are you in?

 

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, marbles said:

 

To bad you don't realize BOTH parties play a huge part in doing nothing to prevent this in the future 

 

As for legit political concerns - which part of the US are you in?

 

Yep, I don't deny Manchin and company aren't helping either. But they're not the ones largely responsible for blocking every piece of gun-control related legislation, nor are they blocking action to make mental healthcare more easily accessible through changing the way the US does healthcare in general.

 

And though I am no longer resident in the US, I do have numerous friends there and so the political decisions taken there do have an effect on them. Not that a personal interest makes the issue any more important anyway - I'm not going to to "stay in my lane" when the folks that extol the virtues of the "greatest country in the world" then sit by and allow things like this to happen regularly. Some exceptionalism.

[marbles]

38 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

And though I am no longer resident in the US, I do have numerous friends there and so the political decisions taken there do have an effect on them. Not that a personal interest makes the issue any more important anyway - I'm not going to to "stay in my lane" when the folks that extol the virtues of the "greatest country in the world" then sit by and allow things like this to happen regularly. Some exceptionalism.

Point was that you stated "legit political concerns".  Hard for them to be "legit" when you don't live here

 

Rather than continuing to have discussions on gun violence throughout different forums - here is a thread I started.

Would appreciate your opinion in there @leicsmac

 

and forgot to post the link.  duh

 

 

Edited 25 May 2022 by marbles

[st albans fox]

8 hours ago, st albans fox said:

14 primary age kids shot dead at school in Texas …….

 

18 y o kid responsible (and dead) 

Oh my

it was 19 ……..

[Guest ttfn]

The “constitutional right” argument is so unbelievably reductive I can’t believe how little it gets challenged on a practical level. 

 

Even putting to one side the fact that the constitution was written over 200 years ago, the constitution can, and has on many occasions, been changed. When they repealed prohibition in 1933 it was at the time against the constitution to sell alcohol, but guess what? They realised the law they had wasn’t working and they changed it. The constitution isn’t written in stone ffs.
 

Obviously in reality you need bipartisan support for any change which is never going to happen, but on a very basic level the “constitutional right”’argument fails before it even gets out of the gate. That in itself cannot be a reason for allowing gun ownership.

[Shane]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-chinas-uyghur-detention-camps
 

 

 

[Parafox]

The worldwide price of Gerbils has plummeted. 

[leicsmac]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61614782

 

NRA conference.

 

"Mr Trump also called in his speech for the US to "drastically change our approach to mental health"."

 

...and that couldn't have happened while you were in office because...? How incredibly hypocritical and reactionary.

 

"Before Mr Trump spoke, Texas Senator Ted Cruz blamed mass shootings mainly on absent fathers, declining church attendance, social media and video games."

 

Is it possible to be that inaccurate about the facts of a matter and be in a top political position through mere ignorance and not malicious oversight? Still, the guy does have previous on such ignorance, if the remarks on the Paris Climate Agreement are anything to go by.

[marbles]

To be fair @leicsmacBeing ignorant is a prerequisite for politics in the US - see ANY politician for reference 

[leicsmac]

16 minutes ago, marbles said:

To be fair @leicsmacBeing ignorant is a prerequisite for politics in the US - see ANY politician for reference 

...except in matters of making as much bank from the position as possible. Though I guess they have staffers for that.

 

But that being said, if the above is indeed true, does it say more about the person themselves or the folks that elected them?

 

NB. I would submit that on this particular matter, the solution chosen by at least some Dems is less batshit and ignorant than the one chosen by some of the Repubs.

[marbles]

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

...except in matters of making as much bank from the position as possible. Though I guess they have staffers for that.

 

But that being said, if the above is indeed true, does it say more about the person themselves or the folks that elected them?

 

NB. I would submit that on this particular matter, the solution chosen by at least some Dems is less batshit and ignorant than the one chosen by some of the Repubs.

I will agree that as a whole, the Dems seem much smarter when it comes the mental health and weapons than the Repubs. 
The Dems have made mistakes, but at least they are smart enough to not buckle down on those mistakes after a tragedy.

 

I mean crap, the Repubs aren’t even smart enough to say “guns are a problem we are looking into” and then do nothing.  Nope, they go “Um guns don’t kill people.  That’s just crazy talk!”

Edited 28 May 2022 by marbles

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, marbles said:

I will agree that as a whole, the Dems seem much smarter when it comes the mental health and weapons than the Repubs. 
The Dems have made mistakes, but at least they are smart enough to not buckle down on those mistakes after a tragedy.

 

I mean crap, the Repubs aren’t even smart enough to say “guns are a problem we are looking into” and then do nothing.  Nope, they go “Um guns don’t kill people.  That’s just crazy talk!”

Or deflect by mentioning video games and the like, yeah.

 

Anyhow, on general topic, it appears that both Trump and Cruz are looking to take a tilt at the big job in 2024.

[marbles]

5 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Or deflect by mentioning video games and the like, yeah.

 

Anyhow, on general topic, it appears that both Trump and Cruz are looking to take a tilt at the big job in 2024.

Trump will have a good chance, depending on who the Dems put up.  I believe if it’s either Harris or Biden, Trump will return.

 

I can’t see Cruz’s shtick playing on the big stage.  He can get away with his nonsense here in Texas because of the good ok boy network.   Rest of the country ain’t buying into that nonsense.

Edited 28 May 2022 by marbles

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, marbles said:

Trump will have a good chance, depending on who the Dems put up.  I believe if it’s either Harris or Biden, Trump will return.

 

I can’t see Cruz’s shtick playing on the big stage.  He can get away with his nonsense here in Texas because of the good ok boy network.   Rest of the country ain’t buying into that nonsense.

I think that's about right on the assessment of Cruz and Trump - especially the provincialism of Cruz. I wonder how much goodwill Trump has among moderates (which he may need to win overall) after the way he went out in 2020/21 though. Harris, at least, may do well enough against him, as it seems that no one is really focusing on her as a locus of blame right now.

 

Before that,  however, I do wonder how deep the divisions are in the Repub establishment between the Trump/no-Trump factions and whether they're ready for such a cult of personality this time. They certainly weren't in 2016. It's difficult to tell this time round.

[marbles]

I think the issue with Harris, is she does not come across good at all.  Seemingly laughing and cackling every time she’s in front of a camera I think hurts any credibility she may have.   Not too mention that a recent poll in her home state of California has her going the wrong direction.

If I were running against her, my strategy would be to discount Biden as Pres (won’t be hard) and continually claim it was actually Harris running the country - blaming her for everything people are upset with.

 

Honestly, the day after Biden was elected, the Dems should have started working on convincing Michelle Obama.  She would easily win.

Edited 28 May 2022 by marbles

[Dunge]

So I’ve read, Harris is not popular. The Dems need someone else in 2024 to take on Trump, who I think needs another electoral defeat before the Republicans even consider change.

[marbles]

Good point about Trump/ No Trump factions @leicsmac

Something else to think about.  Any Repub who has spoken out against him would be worried that if he won, his childishness would result in some sort of payback.  That may be enough incentive to fight even harder against him being in the Republican ticket

Edited 28 May 2022 by marbles