The Horse's Mouth Posted 24 June 2022 Share Posted 24 June 2022 Well this will end well 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 24 June 2022 Share Posted 24 June 2022 America is utterly tapped isn’t it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parafox Posted 24 June 2022 Share Posted 24 June 2022 17 minutes ago, Babylon said: America is utterly tapped isn’t it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samilktray Posted 24 June 2022 Share Posted 24 June 2022 25 minutes ago, Babylon said: America is utterly tapped isn’t it. They all eat like toddlers, wank off Jesus and can only drive in straight lines. Weirdest country going 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parafox Posted 24 June 2022 Share Posted 24 June 2022 1 hour ago, Samilktray said: They all eat like toddlers, wank off Jesus and can only drive in straight lines. Weirdest country going We went to Florida several years ago and the thing we noticed was everyone drove everywhere. There was a small shopping area within easy walking distance from our accommodation but I had to get in the car and drive to it as there were no footpaths. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgfualol Posted 24 June 2022 Share Posted 24 June 2022 Disgusting, America is doomed. I feel so bad for all the people that are and will be affected by this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusko187 Posted 25 June 2022 Share Posted 25 June 2022 Soooo...... how about those climate nuts at Glastonbury huh? What a bunch of hypocrites Either way, it's terrible the Supreme Courts taken that decision on abortion. Rightly as @urban.spaceman has pointed out, rape victims now have no (legal) way of aborting a pregnancy. That said, I do think that there is a cut-off when you simply cannot abort a baby without a REALLY good reason (medical grounds, etc). I have seen that 1 company in America is offering travel expenditure for medical work that is now no longer available to people. I have also had a few beers, so to prevent looking like a d***, I should keep quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WigstonWanderer Posted 25 June 2022 Share Posted 25 June 2022 (edited) I am disgusted that SCOTUS has overturned precedent to deny American women the automatic right to terminate their pregnancy, and am in no way anti-abortion. Nevertheless, I have to say that some of the commentary implying that babies are not human until they are born is extreme. Are some really advocating the right to abortion at any stage right up till birth? Perhaps I have misunderstood. Development proceeds from eggs and sperm through to the birth of a fully formed baby. A limit must surely be placed on the time during which abortion is permitted. My own view is that the limit should be the point at which the foetus becomes viable outside the womb. This will of course change as medical science advances, and should therefore be a matter of scientific opinion, rather than political or religious dogma. Edit: I see most of the discussion has been removed. Perhaps best as it wasn’t very enlightening. Edited 25 June 2022 by WigstonWanderer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthosoriginals Posted 25 June 2022 Share Posted 25 June 2022 Has chunks of the discussion been removed by russians, chinese or the god mob? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Horse's Mouth Posted 25 June 2022 Share Posted 25 June 2022 10 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said: I am disgusted that SCOTUS has overturned precedent to deny American women the automatic right to terminate their pregnancy, and am in no way anti-abortion. Nevertheless, I have to say that some of the commentary implying that babies are not human until they are born is extreme. Are some really advocating the right to abortion at any stage right up till birth? Perhaps I have misunderstood. Development proceeds from eggs and sperm through to the birth of a fully formed baby. A limit must surely be placed on the time during which abortion is permitted. My own view is that the limit should be the point at which the foetus becomes viable outside the womb. This will of course change as medical science advances, and should therefore be a matter of scientific opinion, rather than political or religious dogma. Edit: I see most of the discussion has been removed. Perhaps best as it wasn’t very enlightening. It's ashame, think the Christian fella did really well to stay respectful while being dogpiled, I don't think that kind of debate will get anywhere though 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbles Posted 25 June 2022 Share Posted 25 June 2022 1 minute ago, The Horse's Mouth said: It's ashame, think the Christian fella did really well to stay respectful while being dogpiled, I don't think that kind of debate will get anywhere though That’s a shame. The discussion needs to happen. Some kind of compromise between both sides needs to be reached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunge Posted 25 June 2022 Share Posted 25 June 2022 1 hour ago, WigstonWanderer said: I am disgusted that SCOTUS has overturned precedent to deny American women the automatic right to terminate their pregnancy, and am in no way anti-abortion. Nevertheless, I have to say that some of the commentary implying that babies are not human until they are born is extreme. Are some really advocating the right to abortion at any stage right up till birth? Perhaps I have misunderstood. Development proceeds from eggs and sperm through to the birth of a fully formed baby. A limit must surely be placed on the time during which abortion is permitted. My own view is that the limit should be the point at which the foetus becomes viable outside the womb. This will of course change as medical science advances, and should therefore be a matter of scientific opinion, rather than political or religious dogma. Edit: I see most of the discussion has been removed. Perhaps best as it wasn’t very enlightening. In answer to your question: Kind of. I’m not sure I’d define it as “not human”, but I’m not sure we ever invented the right word for it. Whatever “it” is, I see it as the mother’s choice until birth, and certainly with different rights to a born baby. Although I appreciate I go further on the topic than others would, and it’s certainly not a hill I intend to die on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunge Posted 26 June 2022 Share Posted 26 June 2022 54 minutes ago, marbles said: That’s a shame. The discussion needs to happen. Some kind of compromise between both sides needs to be reached. I think part of the problem here is that compromise is very difficult. Some people are “pro-choice”, others are “pro-life”. If you can see a middle ground then I’m sure it would be welcomed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 26 June 2022 Share Posted 26 June 2022 Senator John Cornyn via Twitter: "Now do Plessy v Ferguson/Brown v Board of Education". Of course it was never going to end there. I don't know how anyone expected it would, or that this is about anything but power and control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 26 June 2022 Share Posted 26 June 2022 25 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Senator John Cornyn via Twitter: "Now do Plessy v Ferguson/Brown v Board of Education". Of course it was never going to end there. I don't know how anyone expected it would, or that this is about anything but power and control. In a horrifying way I’m kinda curious to see how this pans out and how ****ing low these Christian extremists can go until they trigger a full on civil ****ing war! And I’m not just talking about FoxesTalk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 26 June 2022 Share Posted 26 June 2022 24 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said: In a horrifying way I’m kinda curious to see how this pans out and how ****ing low these Christian extremists can go until they trigger a full on civil ****ing war! And I’m not just talking about FoxesTalk. One would hope that it doesn't come to that. Or if it does, that Reconstruction is done *properly* this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbles Posted 26 June 2022 Share Posted 26 June 2022 (edited) 33 minutes ago, leicsmac said: One would hope that it doesn't come to that. Or if it does, that Reconstruction is done *properly* this time. You guys obviously are forgetting, or don’t understand where the firepower in this country lies. A civil war would be horrible, and most likely not go in the way you want. Edited 26 June 2022 by marbles 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbles Posted 26 June 2022 Share Posted 26 June 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dunge said: I think part of the problem here is that compromise is very difficult. Some people are “pro-choice”, others are “pro-life”. If you can see a middle ground then I’m sure it would be welcomed. In order for there to be a middle ground, concessions would have to be made by both sides. That won’t happen as long as the people on both sides keep their blinders on. I just hope cooler heads realize that a divided country is not good, and agree to talk. That is unless the divided country is what our Government wants. If we are fighting amongst ourselves, we are not united against the establishment. Edited 26 June 2022 by marbles 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 26 June 2022 Share Posted 26 June 2022 18 minutes ago, marbles said: You guys obviously are forgetting, or don’t understand where the firepower in this country lies. A civil war would be horrible, and most likely not go in the way you want. A civil war would certainly be horrible. However I wonder which side the US military would pick (I don't think they would be split, they would choose one or the other)? Whichever side they chose would win, or at least reduce the other to purely guerrilla/ insurgent tactics. Like you, I really really hope it doesn't happen. And I wouldnt be certain about the result either. However, if the side I believe should win does win, then I would ask that the defeated party be treated like Germany/Hapan c.1945, not like the Antebellum South, thanks to Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbles Posted 26 June 2022 Share Posted 26 June 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, leicsmac said: A civil war would certainly be horrible. However I wonder which side the US military would pick (I don't think they would be split, they would choose one or the other)? Whichever side they chose would win, or at least reduce the other to purely guerrilla/ insurgent tactics. Like you, I really really hope it doesn't happen. And I wouldnt be certain about the result either. However, if the side I believe should win does win, then I would ask that the defeated party be treated like Germany/Hapan c.1945, not like the Antebellum South, thanks to Johnson. I think the military would have to protect our borders and stay out of the fight. If not, it would take nothing for others to simply walk in and overthrow the country while we were distracted. The side you believe should win, most likely wouldn’t. IMO, the hardcore left are not equipped. Sure they have some weapons, but most are handguns for self defense. Think about the hardcore right - who do you think buys up and owns all the auto/semi auto rifles? The heavier firepower from gun shows? Things such as grenades, bazookas, even small rocket launchers. You may not realize this, but there are training camps here in the US for militarized combat training - who do you think holds and attends these? Now, even if the military got involved. Are you confident that they would follow orders and not their beliefs? ( I seem to recall a thread where people said military personnel would follow their beliefs, and not carry out a strike against China if ordered by Trump.) Finally, our government proved during the Jan 6 debacle that they would not fire on their own people. Sorry, but the people who stormed the capital should have been shot - not allowed to overthrow the government. In all honesty, I don’t want either side to win. Inciting violence is what Trump did when he didn’t get the result he wanted. It was wrong then, and it would be wrong now. If you don’t agree, sad to say but you’re no better than him. Edited 26 June 2022 by marbles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 26 June 2022 Share Posted 26 June 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, marbles said: I think the military would have to protect our borders and stay out of the fight. If not, it would take nothing for others to simply walk in and overthrow the country while we were distracted. The side you believe should win, most likely wouldn’t. IMO, the hardcore left are not equipped. Sure they have some weapons, but most are handguns for self defense. Think about the hardcore right - who do you think buys up and owns all the auto/semi auto rifles? The heavier firepower from gun shows? You may not realize this, but there are training camps here in the US for militarized combat training - who do you think holds and attends these? Now, even if the military got involved. Are you confident that they would follow orders and not their beliefs? ( I seem to recall a thread where people said military personnel would follow their beliefs, and not carry out a strike against China if ordered by Trump.) Finally, our government proved during the Jan 6 debacle that they would not fire on their own people. Sorry, but the people who stormed the capital should have been shot - not allowed to overthrow the government. In all honesty, I don’t want either side to win. Inciting violence is what Trump did when he didn’t get the result he wanted. It was wrong then, and it would be wrong now. If you don’t agree, sad to say but you’re no better than him. I'm not sure about the stance on the military here, but you make a fair argument. I don't want it to come to that because of the obvious risk the entirety of the US becoming twinned with Afghanistan in terms of social culture but also because, as you say, the violence would be horrible and unnecessary anyway. Here's hoping it can be sorted out in the legislature - equal rights really shouldn't be a states only issue anyhow, that's what the last war was fought to decide! Edited 26 June 2022 by leicsmac 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NasPb Posted 26 June 2022 Share Posted 26 June 2022 (edited) No one interested in talking about the massacres committed by puppet states with the money and open support of the EU? And let it be clear, my state of origin is absolutely controlled and managed by the colonial powers that be especially France and the USA. They're paid to do the dirty work of the European union. They talk of human rights and Equality but they give the license to kill thousands of innocent men women and children fleeing conflicts and economic situations they have created..... (as in the European powers.) I've always wanted to say this the whole brexit issue doesn't outweigh the fact that the European union is as complicit in crimes against humanity as Russia and the USA are in other cases. If this were Ukraine though... (I'm not taking away from roe vs wade btw, completely understandable it's a main topic.. Horrible to see what happened. Just wanted to mention this. Look up border violence nador. Peace) Edited 26 June 2022 by NasPb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPeakFox Posted 26 June 2022 Share Posted 26 June 2022 It's a very difficult discussion to have when one person openly states 'I won't even listen to you on anything else related to this debate unless you agree with me on one particular premise', which is what our God-believing correspondent did. I am not sure that would be tolerated if anyone else tried to do that in any other discussion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbles Posted 26 June 2022 Share Posted 26 June 2022 5 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said: It's a very difficult discussion to have when one person openly states 'I won't even listen to you on anything else related to this debate unless you agree with me on one particular premise', which is what our God-believing correspondent did. I am not sure that would be tolerated if anyone else tried to do that in any other discussion. In fairness, that’s the exact same stance taken by people on both sides of the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPeakFox Posted 26 June 2022 Share Posted 26 June 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, marbles said: In fairness, that’s the exact same stance taken by people on both sides of the argument. I'm not sure that's quite as fair as you think it is - his basic position is 'God is fact', and that's a totally unreasonable premise to force on any argument. We should perhaps not discuss this here, as the Mods could very reasonably remove it as utterly irrelevant to the actual thread. Edited 26 June 2022 by HighPeakFox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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