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By Countryfox, in General Chat

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thursday_next

thursday_next

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62630034

 

Hmmmm.

This is difficult.

 

Martyn Luther King said 'I have a dream that my four young children will one day live in a nation where they are not judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character'. I think we can all agree on that. I hope so, anyway.

 

He did not go on to say 'I believe that a black man should go off his medication, cause a ruckus in the local shop, push a deputy to the ground, punch the back of his head, and continue to resist arrest until he is stopped by force'. In that event he could expect dire and unforeseen consequences. Nothing riles the police more than having one of there own attacked, and with good reason. We all watch 'The Wire' and 'The Shield' for entertainment purposes, and not expect that real life will not include this particular scenario. Oprah Winfrey and the Rev Jesse Jackson might differ with that, but they are wrong.

 

I wish that those who would quarrel with me on this would spend a year serving as a US deputy, and see if that changes their mind somewhat. I haven't, but I can imagine. There's no point in hoping for a change in US gun culture, when let's face it, the majority of US gun owners would, if pushed, say that the main reason for that is 'fear of black people'. This might be to some extent illusory, but when you contemplate being confronted with a prison-hardened black person the size of Patrick Vieira and all that protects you, your wife, and your children is a fruit knife it's really hard not to concede they have a point. 

 

Yes, there's due process in theory, but all that flies out the window in real life. I wish it wasn't that way, but unfortunately it is.

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Tommy Fresh

Tommy Fresh

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, thursday_next said:

This is difficult.

 

Martyn Luther King said 'I have a dream that my four young children will one day live in a nation where they are not judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character'. I think we can all agree on that. I hope so, anyway.

 

He did not go on to say 'I believe that a black man should go off his medication, cause a ruckus in the local shop, push a deputy to the ground, punch the back of his head, and continue to resist arrest until he is stopped by force'. In that event he could expect dire and unforeseen consequences. Nothing riles the police more than having one of there own attacked, and with good reason. We all watch 'The Wire' and 'The Shield' for entertainment purposes, and not expect that real life will not include this particular scenario. Oprah Winfrey and the Rev Jesse Jackson might differ with that, but they are wrong.

 

I wish that those who would quarrel with me on this would spend a year serving as a US deputy, and see if that changes their mind somewhat. I haven't, but I can imagine. There's no point in hoping for a change in US gun culture, when let's face it, the majority of US gun owners would, if pushed, say that the main reason for that is 'fear of black people'. This might be to some extent illusory, but when you contemplate being confronted with a prison-hardened black person the size of Patrick Vieira and all that protects you, your wife, and your children is a fruit knife it's really hard not to concede they have a point. 

 

Yes, there's due process in theory, but all that flies out the window in real life. I wish it wasn't that way, but unfortunately it is.

You're way off it with this post mate

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urban.spaceman

urban.spaceman

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, thursday_next said:

This is difficult.

 

Martyn Luther King said 'I have a dream that my four young children will one day live in a nation where they are not judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character'. I think we can all agree on that. I hope so, anyway.

 

He did not go on to say 'I believe that a black man should go off his medication, cause a ruckus in the local shop, push a deputy to the ground, punch the back of his head, and continue to resist arrest until he is stopped by force'. In that event he could expect dire and unforeseen consequences. Nothing riles the police more than having one of there own attacked, and with good reason. We all watch 'The Wire' and 'The Shield' for entertainment purposes, and not expect that real life will not include this particular scenario. Oprah Winfrey and the Rev Jesse Jackson might differ with that, but they are wrong.

 

I wish that those who would quarrel with me on this would spend a year serving as a US deputy, and see if that changes their mind somewhat. I haven't, but I can imagine. There's no point in hoping for a change in US gun culture, when let's face it, the majority of US gun owners would, if pushed, say that the main reason for that is 'fear of black people'. This might be to some extent illusory, but when you contemplate being confronted with a prison-hardened black person the size of Patrick Vieira and all that protects you, your wife, and your children is a fruit knife it's really hard not to concede they have a point. 

 

Yes, there's due process in theory, but all that flies out the window in real life. I wish it wasn't that way, but unfortunately it is.

The guy in the video is white.

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Tommy Fresh

Tommy Fresh

Posted
Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, thursday_next said:

I didn't write it to be popular, only to be truthful, as far I can see it. Thanks for your input.

Truthful is a stretch, by the way if you'd like me to dissect your post let me know. However feel it may be slightly pointless.

Edited by Tommy Fresh
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urban.spaceman

urban.spaceman

Posted
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, thursday_next said:

This is difficult.

 

Martyn Luther King said 'I have a dream that my four young children will one day live in a nation where they are not judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character'. I think we can all agree on that. I hope so, anyway.

 

He did not go on to say 'I believe that a black man should go off his medication, cause a ruckus in the local shop, push a deputy to the ground, punch the back of his head, and continue to resist arrest until he is stopped by force'. In that event he could expect dire and unforeseen consequences. Nothing riles the police more than having one of there own attacked, and with good reason. We all watch 'The Wire' and 'The Shield' for entertainment purposes, and not expect that real life will not include this particular scenario. Oprah Winfrey and the Rev Jesse Jackson might differ with that, but they are wrong.

 

I wish that those who would quarrel with me on this would spend a year serving as a US deputy, and see if that changes their mind somewhat. I haven't, but I can imagine. There's no point in hoping for a change in US gun culture, when let's face it, the majority of US gun owners would, if pushed, say that the main reason for that is 'fear of black people'. This might be to some extent illusory, but when you contemplate being confronted with a prison-hardened black person the size of Patrick Vieira and all that protects you, your wife, and your children is a fruit knife it's really hard not to concede they have a point. 

 

Yes, there's due process in theory, but all that flies out the window in real life. I wish it wasn't that way, but unfortunately it is.

Furthermore, I don't think any of the highlighted that he's accused of justifies being sat on by one officer while another knee drops into his legs and back and the other repeatedly punches him in the head and then slamming his head repeatedly into concrete. You could make the argument for the officers """""restraining""""" him if the video didn't show him quite clearly using his hands in a defensive manner:

 

(spoilered for graphic nature)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

George Floyd's 'crime' was being accused of using an allegedly counterfeit $20 note, did that justify 4 burly cops coming to arrest him with one of them kneeling on his neck for 8 minutes and 40 seconds?

 

Also, where did this fear of black people come from? 70% of mass shootings are carried out by white people - link. 46% of white people live in gun owning households vs 35% of non white people link.

 

Why should people be exclusively afraid of black men?

George Floyd's 'crime' was being accused of using an allegedly counterfeit $20 note, did that justify 4 burly cops coming to arrest him with one of them kneeling on his neck for 8 minutes and 40 seconds?

 

Also, where did this fear of black people come from? 70% of mass shootings are carried out by white people - link. 46% of white people live in gun owning households vs 35% of non white people - link.

 

Why should people be exclusively afraid of black men?

 

 

 

Edited by urban.spaceman
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FoxesDeb

FoxesDeb

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

Furthermore, I don't think any of the highlighted that he's accused of justifies being sat on by one officer while another knee drops into his legs and back and the other repeatedly punches him in the head and then slamming his head repeatedly into concrete. You could make the argument for the officers """""restraining""""" him if the video didn't show him quite clearly using his hands in a defensive manner:

 

(spoilered for graphic nature)

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

George Floyd's 'crime' was being accused of using an allegedly counterfeit $20 note, did that justify 4 burly cops coming to arrest him with one of them kneeling on his neck for 8 minutes and 40 seconds?

 

Also, where did this fear of black people come from? 70% of mass shootings are carried out by white people - link. 46% of white people live in gun owning households vs 35% of non white people link.

 

Why should people be exclusively afraid of black men?

George Floyd's 'crime' was being accused of using an allegedly counterfeit $20 note, did that justify 4 burly cops coming to arrest him with one of them kneeling on his neck for 8 minutes and 40 seconds?

 

Also, where did this fear of black people come from? 70% of mass shootings are carried out by white people - link. 46% of white people live in gun owning households vs 35% of non white people - link.

 

Why should people be exclusively afraid of black men?

 

 

 

You can't even begin to reason with anyone condoning this kind of mindless violence, especially when they're hiding behind so called 'freedom rights' or whatever else they want to call it. Anyone who thinks this is OK, or even remotely tries to justify it, clearly needs to have a long think about the world they live in, and what kind of world they want to leave for their children and their children after them. 

 

Every time I see something like this I think the USA can't sink any lower in my  estimations, then something else comes along, and it's week after week after week...

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, thursday_next said:

This is difficult.

 

Martyn Luther King said 'I have a dream that my four young children will one day live in a nation where they are not judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character'. I think we can all agree on that. I hope so, anyway.

 

He did not go on to say 'I believe that a black man should go off his medication, cause a ruckus in the local shop, push a deputy to the ground, punch the back of his head, and continue to resist arrest until he is stopped by force'. In that event he could expect dire and unforeseen consequences. Nothing riles the police more than having one of there own attacked, and with good reason. We all watch 'The Wire' and 'The Shield' for entertainment purposes, and not expect that real life will not include this particular scenario. Oprah Winfrey and the Rev Jesse Jackson might differ with that, but they are wrong.

 

I wish that those who would quarrel with me on this would spend a year serving as a US deputy, and see if that changes their mind somewhat. I haven't, but I can imagine. There's no point in hoping for a change in US gun culture, when let's face it, the majority of US gun owners would, if pushed, say that the main reason for that is 'fear of black people'. This might be to some extent illusory, but when you contemplate being confronted with a prison-hardened black person the size of Patrick Vieira and all that protects you, your wife, and your children is a fruit knife it's really hard not to concede they have a point. 

 

Yes, there's due process in theory, but all that flies out the window in real life. I wish it wasn't that way, but unfortunately it is.

@urban.spaceman has pretty much said what I would want to say, but I'll add a comment or two on the bolded:

 

The whole idea of due process in this instance is the very cornerstone of a civilised society, and I don't think it's too much to expect for it to actually be adhered to by law enforcement officials.

 

And I would happily try being such a public servant for a time, and if I found the power and stress of the job getting to me so much that I was about to kick the shit out of a person I was taking into custody, you know what? I'd quit, because I would have the self-awareness to know I was corrupted and not cut out for the job. Every single police officer in the US likewise has this choice. So, I'll save the majority of my sympathy for those on the receiving end of those abuses of power who don't have so much of a choice, thank you.

 

A job with such additional societal power confers additional responsibility. That is something that should be both expected by those who do it and demanded by those whom the police "serve".

Edited by leicsmac
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Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

@urban.spaceman has pretty much said what I would want to say, but I'll add a comment or two on the bolded:

 

The whole idea of due process in this instance is the very cornerstone of a civilised society, and I don't think it's too much to expect for it to actually be adhered to by law enforcement officials.

 

And I would happily try being such a public servant for a time, and if I found the power and stress of the job getting to me so much that I was about to kick the shit out of a person I was taking into custody, you know what? I'd quit, because I would have the self-awareness to know I was corrupted and not cut out for the job. Every single police officer in the US likewise has this choice. So, I'll save the majority of my sympathy for those on the receiving end of those abuses of power who don't have so much of a choice, thank you.

 

A job with such additional societal power confers additional responsibility. That is something that should be both expected by those who do it and demanded by those whom the police "serve".

Indeed, I think people can accept that individuals make mistakes, but not that the system allows ongoing awful treatment of others without censure.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Indeed, I think people can accept that individuals make mistakes, but not that the system allows ongoing awful treatment of others without censure.

Yep, and it's these last two words that are the key part.

 

Expecting an entirely pure police service anywhere is unrealistic. Expecting that those who abuse their power should face accountability for doing so (when so often they do not) is not only realistic, but necessary.

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The Horse's Mouth

The Horse's Mouth

Posted
Posted
On 20/08/2022 at 12:08, Facecloth said:

Now claiming it was all a comedy character. 

 

Well OK, but that "comedy character" is filling young lads with stupid ideas and dangerous misogynistic attitudes.

I think there is some truth in that, part of why I found him quite entertaining is the line is completely blurred so you don’t know whether he’s saying something he genuinely believes or it’s a case of him playing into a character. 

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nnfox

nnfox

Posted
Posted

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-62648427

 

This is heart breaking.

 

Somebody decides that someone else needs to be shot.  Intended victim runs away, chased by a man with a gun.  Intended victim forces his way into a random house at 10pm, gunman follows him in, pulls trigger multiple times.  Kills 9 year old girl, injures mum who have nothing to do with it.  Intended victim receives shot wounds and is collected by his mates in an Audi who drop him at hospital, leaving the girl at the scene to die.

 

I hope they all get caught and rot in prison.

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st albans fox

st albans fox

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, nnfox said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-62648427

 

This is heart breaking.

 

Somebody decides that someone else needs to be shot.  Intended victim runs away, chased by a man with a gun.  Intended victim forces his way into a random house at 10pm, gunman follows him in, pulls trigger multiple times.  Kills 9 year old girl, injures mum who have nothing to do with it.  Intended victim receives shot wounds and is collected by his mates in an Audi who drop him at hospital, leaving the girl at the scene to die.

 

I hope they all get caught and rot in prison.

This is why we need a sentence where they stick you on a deserted Scottish (could be anywhere) island and deliver food every now and again by drone. concrete cells with no roof 

 

we don’t need to take a life in revenge because some of these people see no value in life (including their own)

 

suffering as they would in my scenario is a better deterrent 

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

This is why we need a sentence where they stick you on a deserted Scottish (could be anywhere) island and deliver food every now and again by drone. concrete cells with no roof 

 

we don’t need to take a life in revenge because some of these people see no value in life (including their own)

 

suffering as they would in my scenario is a better deterrent 

I think if that were true, the guy wouldn't have run and wouldn't have been so cowardly as to find a house where he might cause enough of a distraction to escape. These people are almost always driven by self-interest.

 

Saying that however, I do agree with keeping them alive just so that they can truly come to realise just how valueless their own life is.

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StanSP

StanSP

Posted
Posted

Reading about that little girl in Liverpool dying is harrowing. So unfortunate. They weren't even involved. Guessing the man in the home that the mum/daughter were in was driven away in a car just saw the opportunity to try and hide/escape before the gunmen saw where he went... 

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urban.spaceman

urban.spaceman

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, StanSP said:

Reading about that little girl in Liverpool dying is harrowing. So unfortunate. They weren't even involved. Guessing the man in the home that the mum/daughter were in was driven away in a car just saw the opportunity to try and hide/escape before the gunmen saw where he went... 

It's honestly worse than Rhys Jones. That poor boy was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Olivia was in her ****ing home. She should have been safe from this.

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