leicsmac Posted 30 October 2022 Share Posted 30 October 2022 4 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said: Certainly sounds like it, and whilst it’s never wise to jump to conclusions, it always looked to be the case. Doesn’t seem like a particularly stable person though in the first place. Absolutely. I just wanted cast-iron evidence to demonstrate to some of those here who might doubt it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parafox Posted 30 October 2022 Share Posted 30 October 2022 (edited) On 29/10/2022 at 10:08, marbles said: It’s been a good discussion @leicsmacI think you completely underestimate the size, scope and power of the dark corners of the internet. It would be nice if they already didn’t have the power to influence - but sadly they do. You may just not have realized where some of the misinformation over the past few years has originated - and is actually still being spread as fact, by well meaning people. Anyways, I’ve taken up enough of everyone’s time tonight (for me at least) oh yeah LCFC 4 Man City 1 I hate to disagree with you, but you were utterly wrong. 0-1 Edited 30 October 2022 by Parafox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbles Posted 30 October 2022 Share Posted 30 October 2022 1 hour ago, Parafox said: I hate to disagree with you, but you were utterly wrong. 0-1 Not the first time I’m wrong….. This hour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 31 October 2022 Share Posted 31 October 2022 On 30/10/2022 at 09:25, leicsmac said: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-63443044 Nearly 150 dead now. Everyone is in shock over here. Luckily everyone I know is safe, but I expect it will be more than just two foreign nationals affected by this, considering it was Itaewon where it happened. I've walked down that same alley that this happened many times. Scary, really. Absolutely awful thing to happen. Somehow when people are out having fun it all seems so much more tragic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 31 October 2022 Share Posted 31 October 2022 On 29/10/2022 at 10:27, I am Rod Hull said: San Francisco... A Democrat run city with rocketing drug, murder, violence, robbery and mental health problems. Maybe look there pal instead of trying to spin the MAGA narrative. I looked there - of course he’s a nutter but inspired by the conspiracy theories rife on the right of US politics ‘This was met with the unearthing of what appears to be DePape’s blog activity. He posted a daily stream of garden-variety conspiratorial bigotry that mostly seemed to just stick to the hatred of the moment, whether of Communists, Jewish people (via a defense of Kanye West), immigrants, or trans people. Oh and @marbles, it’s way more than the 1% I mentioned - how do you protect these people from believing nonsense like this ? The survey of more than 4,000 people, weighted to be representative of the UK population and carried out earlier this month by King's College London, also suggests that 14% believe the 2017 Manchester Arena attack probably involved "crisis actors" who pretended to be injured. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahnsouff Posted 31 October 2022 Share Posted 31 October 2022 from : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63412651 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 31 October 2022 Share Posted 31 October 2022 24 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said: from : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63412651 And the internet provides a space for all the theorists to be together and re Inforce their mislead beliefs I've said this before - go back thirty years and we all knew a weird fella or lady down the pub …. coming out with all sorts of nonsense. They were harmless because they lived in their own echo chamber - sometimes they would come across another person in their area who thought the same as them but it wasn’t common. the internet provides the means for all these people to come together - it’s becoming a bigger and bigger problem. How do we solve it without censorship ? you can argue that debate will lead to these people seeing that they’re wrong - in many cases it will but the numbers are vast and there are plenty who are so deep down their rabbit holes that they are unable to see reason. where do you draw the line to protect the majority and also those who are possibly being led into doing something terrible. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbles Posted 31 October 2022 Share Posted 31 October 2022 2 hours ago, st albans fox said: I looked there - of course he’s a nutter but inspired by the conspiracy theories rife on the right of US politics ‘This was met with the unearthing of what appears to be DePape’s blog activity. He posted a daily stream of garden-variety conspiratorial bigotry that mostly seemed to just stick to the hatred of the moment, whether of Communists, Jewish people (via a defense of Kanye West), immigrants, or trans people. Oh and @marbles, it’s way more than the 1% I mentioned - how do you protect these people from believing nonsense like this ? The survey of more than 4,000 people, weighted to be representative of the UK population and carried out earlier this month by King's College London, also suggests that 14% believe the 2017 Manchester Arena attack probably involved "crisis actors" who pretended to be injured. I don’t think it’s possible to protect people from their own stupidity. What is usually “for your own good” is actually “for the good” of someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 31 October 2022 Share Posted 31 October 2022 49 minutes ago, marbles said: I don’t think it’s possible to protect people from their own stupidity. What is usually “for your own good” is actually “for the good” of someone else. True. And that's the way, at least nominally and in most cases, how a society should operate if it's to operate well, "well" in this case being maximising the quality of life of as many people as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 31 October 2022 Share Posted 31 October 2022 1 hour ago, st albans fox said: And the internet provides a space for all the theorists to be together and re Inforce their mislead beliefs I've said this before - go back thirty years and we all knew a weird fella or lady down the pub …. coming out with all sorts of nonsense. They were harmless because they lived in their own echo chamber - sometimes they would come across another person in their area who thought the same as them but it wasn’t common. the internet provides the means for all these people to come together - it’s becoming a bigger and bigger problem. How do we solve it without censorship ? you can argue that debate will lead to these people seeing that they’re wrong - in many cases it will but the numbers are vast and there are plenty who are so deep down their rabbit holes that they are unable to see reason. where do you draw the line to protect the majority and also those who are possibly being led into doing something terrible. The easily lead are just a manifestation of this issue, it's those at the front, Alex Jones etc, that are doing the leading that are the problem. I find it hard to believe that he actually believed all of what he is saying. He is the one doing all the research and then presenting in the most convincing way possible. These people must know that the scientific studies they quote go against the majority of scientific knowledge and are often paid for by groups wanting a specific outcome. It's not hard to do basic research to refute or corroborate what you're saying. The problem is they give the appearance of having done all that research so why would you then do it to check. Scientific paper X proves climate change is not man made. Fair enough but that ignores scientific papers A - W which prove that it is man made. I've seen some of these videos, and it is amazing how engaging and convincing they are, it plays on a common set of beliefs that you are special and that you are the clever one thinking outside the box, not a sheep listening to the well researched and heavily regulated mainstream media. Only you can see the truth by listening to me. What's truly terrifying is just how widespread it is. Qanon, Alex Jones, Anti-vaxxers, flat earthrers these are all dangerous beliefs, in the past it was Big Foot, Nessie, faked moon landings and JFK and Elvis still alive. Pretty harmless conspiracy theories. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 31 October 2022 Share Posted 31 October 2022 2 minutes ago, Captain... said: The easily lead are just a manifestation of this issue, it's those at the front, Alex Jones etc, that are doing the leading that are the problem. I find it hard to believe that he actually believed all of what he is saying. He is the one doing all the research and then presenting in the most convincing way possible. These people must know that the scientific studies they quote go against the majority of scientific knowledge and are often paid for by groups wanting a specific outcome. It's not hard to do basic research to refute or corroborate what you're saying. The problem is they give the appearance of having done all that research so why would you then do it to check. Scientific paper X proves climate change is not man made. Fair enough but that ignores scientific papers A - W which prove that it is man made. I've seen some of these videos, and it is amazing how engaging and convincing they are, it plays on a common set of beliefs that you are special and that you are the clever one thinking outside the box, not a sheep listening to the well researched and heavily regulated mainstream media. Only you can see the truth by listening to me. What's truly terrifying is just how widespread it is. Qanon, Alex Jones, Anti-vaxxers, flat earthrers these are all dangerous beliefs, in the past it was Big Foot, Nessie, faked moon landings and JFK and Elvis still alive. Pretty harmless conspiracy theories. What's even more terrifying is that is has become so widespread it has become elements of political policy in several countries - the US, Russia and Brazil to name but three. And depending on exactly which lie becomes political policy, that has potentially dire consequences for the future of society. Yes, I've said this before, but it is a critical issue that needs highlighting and addressing, one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 31 October 2022 Share Posted 31 October 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 1 November 2022 Share Posted 1 November 2022 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-63467982 Interesting times (perhaps) lie ahead for Brazil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 1 November 2022 Share Posted 1 November 2022 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-63467204 This is a litany of failure. I just hope at least some responsible parties answer for the circumstances that led to the deaths of all those people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanSP Posted 2 November 2022 Share Posted 2 November 2022 Met Police continue to be under fire. Thread here of officers that were allowed to join or were cleared to join despite some serious misdemeanours beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paninistickers Posted 2 November 2022 Share Posted 2 November 2022 These coppers who were mates with Wayne Couzens...I've no doubt they went beyond normal dark humour in their texts, but I find the crime of 'sending grossly offensive messages' troubling. Of the messages were directed at an individual/s or published in a way that it deliberately humiliates/intimidates people....but private messages? Even macabre ones? Professional Gross misconduct maybe but criminal?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 3 November 2022 Share Posted 3 November 2022 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63494618 May we live in interesting times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbles Posted 3 November 2022 Share Posted 3 November 2022 (edited) If that’s true, Al Gore set us on the path years ago Edited 3 November 2022 by marbles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 3 November 2022 Share Posted 3 November 2022 2 minutes ago, marbles said: If that’s true, Al Gore set us on the path years ago That 2000 Florida debacle makes for a fascinating case study. Still, when one side escalates things to the point that they storm the seat of government in order to stop the certification of election results and the other side doesn't, there's something of a difference in acts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbles Posted 3 November 2022 Share Posted 3 November 2022 1 hour ago, leicsmac said: That 2000 Florida debacle makes for a fascinating case study. Still, when one side escalates things to the point that they storm the seat of government in order to stop the certification of election results and the other side doesn't, there's something of a difference in acts. Ehh, results were different, but its still the same thing. Gore tried to undermine democracy. Trump undermined democracy. Hillary continues to undermine democracy. All three are the same, but Biden decides to just focus on one. Imagine that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 3 November 2022 Share Posted 3 November 2022 3 minutes ago, marbles said: Ehh, results were different, but its still the same thing. Gore tried to undermine democracy. Trump undermined democracy. Hillary continues to undermine democracy. All three are the same, but Biden decides to just focus on one. Imagine that. I think the degrees of such dissent are rather important and therefore should be considered, but obviously ones mileage may vary. At least Bolsanaro told his lot to calm the hell down just a little bit. I guess we'll see what happens in the midterms and go from there. One thing I will say is that I've long since given up predicting the landscape over there, it's become utterly chaotic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 3 November 2022 Share Posted 3 November 2022 (edited) Both sides talking about unity is hypocritical in the extreme tbh. https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-63497994 NB. I know I talked about predictions being a fools errand right now, but here's one that scares me: if the current polarisation continues to deepen and there is no unifying force with a single point of truth to draw from (a key problem right now, how do you reason with people who do not accept even fundamental truths?), then there will be serious talking about or even decision-making regarding division and secession within the US, or flat-out large scale civil unrest, within the next decade to fifteen years. I sincerely hope that one is wrong, though. Edited 3 November 2022 by leicsmac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ealingfox Posted 3 November 2022 Share Posted 3 November 2022 7 hours ago, marbles said: Ehh, results were different, but its still the same thing. Gore tried to undermine democracy. Trump undermined democracy. Hillary continues to undermine democracy. All three are the same, but Biden decides to just focus on one. Imagine that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Falling Foxes Posted 3 November 2022 Share Posted 3 November 2022 Bounty chocolate to be removed From tubs of Celebration. Apparently they are not popular but are certainly my favourite. Guess I'm in a minority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zear0 Posted 3 November 2022 Share Posted 3 November 2022 6 minutes ago, Free Falling Foxes said: Bounty chocolate to be removed From tubs of Celebration. Apparently they are not popular but are certainly my favourite. Guess I'm in a minority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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