Coronavirus Thread

[leicsmac]

NB. Human survival in the face of an act of nature really shouldn't be a political football.

[z-layrex]

58 minutes ago, Farrington fox said:

Jesus, you socialist types really don't tolerate any difference of opinion do you. I think I'll leave you to your echo chamber, and go back to the football. Maybe there we can agree that Vestergaard is crap, or maybe ....

There are no differences in opinion when it comes to being vaccinated. You either get the vaccine or you're directly responsible for the deaths of others.

 

And I don't care if you had it yourself, if you're defending those who aren't getting it you're just as bad as them.

Edited 24 November 2021 by z-layrex

[Finnaldo]

1 hour ago, Farrington fox said:

Jesus, you socialist types really don't tolerate any difference of opinion do you. I think I'll leave you to your echo chamber, and go back to the football. Maybe there we can agree that Vestergaard is crap, or maybe ....

Two of the people you’re engaging with are either open Tory voters or have voted Tory in the last five years  

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

Two of the people you’re engaging with are either open Tory voters or have voted Tory in the last five years  

I suspect more than 2 .....

[pazzerfox]

1 hour ago, Farrington fox said:

Jesus, you socialist types really don't tolerate any difference of opinion do you. I think I'll leave you to your echo chamber, and go back to the football. Maybe there we can agree that Vestergaard is crap, or maybe ....

Mate, you're wasting your time arguing your case in here.  Many are alsleep at the wheel and refuse to wake up! 

[Finnaldo]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

I suspect more than 2 .....

I should have said, ‘at least’ two, that I know of…

 

Really gives you a glimpse into the mindset of some folk, the most in favour of measures like lockdown for those without vaccines, and closing clubs and bars indefinitely, are the elderly. The group that’s also the Conservative’s most reliable base. The majority of young folk I know would not want further Covid measures, despite for the most part being left-leaning. 
 

The truth is, it has less to do with politics (which has SOME influence mind) and more to do with age. Folks who days are more family and home-oriented are gonna be less bothered by measures in general, the young with more of an active social life are generally going to want to avoid it. 

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

 

The truth is, it has less to do with politics (which has SOME influence mind) and more to do with age. Folks who days are more family and home-oriented are gonna be less bothered by measures in general, then young with more of an active social life are generally going to want to avoid it. 

So they should get jabbed then ……

won’t be any issues for them to attend/travel 

 

It’s about time the pro medics ( not the social media wannabes) explained the reality about vaccines - I have no idea what some people are worried about.   of course if you aren’t prepared to be jabbed in order for society to not be locked down but you’re happy for me to be jabbed so that you can go out with everything open then that’s fair ……

[FoxesDeb]

11 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

I should have said, ‘at least’ two, that I know of…

 

Really gives you a glimpse into the mindset of some folk, the most in favour of measures like lockdown for those without vaccines, and closing clubs and bars indefinitely, are the elderly. The group that’s also the Conservative’s most reliable base. The majority of young folk I know would not want further Covid measures, despite for the most part being left-leaning. 
 

The truth is, it has less to do with politics (which has SOME influence mind) and more to do with age. Folks who days are more family and home-oriented are gonna be less bothered by measures in general, the young with more of an active social life are generally going to want to avoid it. 

With regards to the vaccine passport I would have thought the opposite to be true. We go out to eat several times a week, and if showing my vaccine status means I can continue doing that I have absolutely no problem with it. 

I had to show it at an Airbnb in Portugal recently, again if this means I can still travel I don't mind. I'd much rather that than see places closing again if the numbers can't be controlled. 

[FoxesDeb]

32 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

Two of the people you’re engaging with are either open Tory voters or have voted Tory in the last five years  

I've been called many things before, but a socialist definitely isn't one of them 

[z-layrex]

3 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Just not true though, is it? People with the vaccine are still passing it on so it's not just those without the vaccine. 

 

Tbh I don't understand why people want to appropriate blame to anyone individual(s) for the spread of the virus and deaths. It's just a horrible natural event. The whole vaccine blame game and morals thing is silly. We're all in this together, vaccinated or unvaccinated. 

As I've said multiple times:

 

-The vaccine doesn't stop you getting or spreading covid (thought it does reduce the chances of you doing that), it stops you getting critically ill.

 

-Critically ill people need an Intensive care bed.

 

-Full intensive care units stop entire hospitals functioning due to lack of patient flow.

 

-The ICU's in this country are already struggling again due to half the nurses quitting the field and lack of beds, thanks to unvaccinated covid admissions. At my unit we are mixing non-covid patients with covid because we cannot safely isolate them with the lack of specialist staff.

 

-So, if you do not get vaccinated or defend those that do not, you are directly contributing to this.

[Dunge]

9 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

I've been called many things before, but a socialist definitely isn't one of them 

Hey there, fellow socialist!
Remind me what that special secret socialist handshake was again, I forget.

[SpacedX]

32 minutes ago, pazzerfox said:

Mate, you're wasting your time arguing your case in here.  Many are alsleep at the wheel and refuse to wake up! 

Illusory superiority much?

 

Always amused me that those that insist on parroting crap like this are invariably those that slept through science classes. 

[Innovindil]

21 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Just not true though, is it? People with the vaccine are still passing it on so it's not just those without the vaccine. 

 

Tbh I don't understand why people want to appropriate blame to any group of people/individual(s) for the spread of the virus and deaths. It's just a horrible natural event. The whole vaccine blame game and morals thing is silly. We're all in this together, vaccinated or unvaccinated. 

Trouble is you're tunnel visioning on covid deaths and not all the other deaths. Like deaths from people struggling to access NHS care because someone who's unvaccinated is taking up a bed. 

[bmt]

3 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Exactly, so it stops you from getting critically ill, not others - you said that if you don't get it you're responsible for the death of others. By your statement there, that isn't the case (yes, I did read the rest of your post, that's more of an NHS problem than it is a "you should get the vaccine" issue - I work for NHS too so have empathy for the problems you are currently facing, believe me)

See this argument loads, and it makes no sense. Not everything is binary. Avoiding something which reduces a bad impact DIRECTLY CONTRIBUTES. Just because it spreads either way doesn't mean that both decisions are morally the same. 

 

It's like some weird trolley problem.

[leicsmac]

I know I've said this before, but given the current drift of conversation I'll repeat myself:

 

If this crisis might be viewed as a dress rehearsal for what really nasty stuff nature has in store for us that requires a unified response, then humanity is fluffing its lines. We won't get away with that on "opening night".

Edited 24 November 2021 by leicsmac

[dsr-burnley]

45 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

I should have said, ‘at least’ two, that I know of…

 

Really gives you a glimpse into the mindset of some folk, the most in favour of measures like lockdown for those without vaccines, and closing clubs and bars indefinitely, are the elderly. The group that’s also the Conservative’s most reliable base. The majority of young folk I know would not want further Covid measures, despite for the most part being left-leaning. 
 

The truth is, it has less to do with politics (which has SOME influence mind) and more to do with age. Folks who days are more family and home-oriented are gonna be less bothered by measures in general, the young with more of an active social life are generally going to want to avoid it. 

I don't think that's true.  Certainly not amongst the elderly people I know.  I may have been true two years ago, but elederly people aren't stupid - they know that the period March 2020 to July 2021 is "lost" years that they won't get back, and when you're 80-odd, you don't have a lot of years left.  

 

So a lot of the elderly are working on the basis that they are triple jabbed, they have done all that is humanly possible, and going out into the world risking death is better than sitting at home alone waiting for death to come to them.

 

(Besides, although they by and large won't have done the sum, many of them are intuitively able to work out that if you have a 20% chance of dying within a year if you go out and live your normal life, but you can reduce it to 19% chance of dying if you sit at home and don't see anyone - it isn't worth it.)

[Alf Bentley]

48 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

I've been called many things before, but a socialist definitely isn't one of them 

 

"Red Deb" has a certain ring.

 

I hope you have your Che Guevara poster up on the wall of your Andalusian hacienda, you Cava Communist? 

[Finnaldo]

39 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

I don't think that's true.  Certainly not amongst the elderly people I know.  I may have been true two years ago, but elederly people aren't stupid - they know that the period March 2020 to July 2021 is "lost" years that they won't get back, and when you're 80-odd, you don't have a lot of years left.  

 

So a lot of the elderly are working on the basis that they are triple jabbed, they have done all that is humanly possible, and going out into the world risking death is better than sitting at home alone waiting for death to come to them.

 

(Besides, although they by and large won't have done the sum, many of them are intuitively able to work out that if you have a 20% chance of dying within a year if you go out and live your normal life, but you can reduce it to 19% chance of dying if you sit at home and don't see anyone - it isn't worth it.)

I’m just going by some of the polls I’ve seen 

 

They generally tend to follow this trend.

 

Also interestingly against @Farrington fox’s point, is actually Conservative voters more likely to want to reimplement lockdown measures. 

Edited 24 November 2021 by Finnaldo

[FoxesDeb]

1 hour ago, pmcla26 said:

Exactly, so it stops you from getting critically ill, not others - you said that if you don't get it you're responsible for the death of others. By your statement there, that isn't the case (yes, I did read the rest of your post, that's more of an NHS problem than it is a "you should get the vaccine" issue - I work for NHS too so have empathy for the problems you are currently facing, believe me)

You've quoted the important bit but completely ignored it:

 

-The vaccine doesn't stop you getting or spreading covid (thought it does reduce the chances of you doing that), it stops you getting critically ill.

 

and then gone on to refute it by saying being vaccinated doesn't stop others from getting critically ill. If you're vaccinated you reduce the risk of transmission, and therefore the chance of making someone else someone critically ill, no? 

 

 

 

 

[bovril]

5 hours ago, StanSP said:

 

 

 

Bulgaria has been a total disaster, and it's not just down to anti-vax sentiment. Very tragic situation.

[KrefelderFox666]

Current stats are interesting so far. Cases continue to be on the rise have been for 3 weeks now, but the hospitalisations and deaths are on the decline with a sharp drop now. Early days but signs that the boosters might be doing exactly as intended.

[FoxesDeb]

1 minute ago, pmcla26 said:

My point was that those who aren’t vaccinated shouldn’t be told that they’re responsible for the death of others when it’s something that you decide for your own personal health more than anything. 

And my point is that if you're not vaccinated you are potentially going to be responsible for the deaths of others, as you are statistically more likely to transmit covid. See also our resident ICU nurse's post above spelling out the indirect effects the unvaccinated are having on people who would ordinarily be treated more easily.

 

It's not an opinion, it is a cold hard fact. 

 

Vaccinations are not all about the individual, they are for the good of the wider population. 

 

I'm sorry if you don't think people should be told this, but I'm not sure why you think people shouldn't be made aware, or held responsible for their actions? 

[yorkie1999]

31 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

And my point is that if you're not vaccinated you are potentially going to be responsible for the deaths of others, as you are statistically more likely to transmit covid. See also our resident ICU nurse's post above spelling out the indirect effects the unvaccinated are having on people who would ordinarily be treated more easily.

 

It's not an opinion, it is a cold hard fact. 

 

Vaccinations are not all about the individual, they are for the good of the wider population. 

 

I'm sorry if you don't think people should be told this, but I'm not sure why you think people shouldn't be made aware, or held responsible for their actions? 

BUt won't it be the deaths of others who're not vaccinated. At the end of the day, it's all going to come down to, if you're not vaccinated, it really is you're own fault.

Edited 24 November 2021 by yorkie1999

[FoxesDeb]

12 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Yes, just as you potentially could be if you are vaccinated and spread the virus too. 

Vaccinated people have chosen to reduce the risk to others as much as they possibly can. The unvaccinated have chosen not to give a fvck about anyone else other than themselves. That's the difference. 

[SpacedX]

1 hour ago, pmcla26 said:

My point was that those who aren’t vaccinated shouldn’t be told that they’re responsible for the death of others when it’s something that you decide for your own personal health more than anything. 

Just curious - but how is not getting vaccinated against a highly virulent and potentially lethal respiratory viral pandemic that has so far claimed the lives of over 5 million people in the interest of your "own personal health"? 

 

As has been pointed out, it certainly isn't in the interest of others.