Coronavirus Thread

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, KrefelderFox666 said:

Current stats are interesting so far. Cases continue to be on the rise have been for 3 weeks now, but the hospitalisations and deaths are on the decline with a sharp drop now. Early days but signs that the boosters might be doing exactly as intended.

Given the situation and the fact that we're not going to get rid of covid plus with the scientists hoping that we'll eventually end up with a seasonal bug similar to what we already experience, isn't it a good thing that cases are rising and deaths are declining.

[Sloth]

I don't really understand how hardcore anti-vaxxers are. To each their own, but I got the vaccine and wear the mask when needed because I want this damn thing to end, not keep on spiking and eventually lead to another curfew and/or lockdown here in the States. Simple.

[yorkie1999]

11 minutes ago, Sloth said:

I don't really understand how hardcore anti-vaxxers are. To each their own, but I got the vaccine and wear the mask when needed because I want this damn thing to end, not keep on spiking and eventually lead to another curfew and/or lockdown here in the States. Simple.

They seem fairly hardcore in Italy

 

https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/23/italian-covid-parties-leave-man-dead-and-others-in-intensive-care-15648593/

[st albans fox]

3 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Just for the record, I'm not anti-vax. I haven't had both doses, but I wouldn't encourage others to not get it. I'm just doing what I think is right, same as those who have had all doses think they are doing what is right.

 

You assume all the unvaccinated don't give an f about those around them - well, I still give a f about those around me by wearing a face covering, washing my hands and doing regular lateral flows if I feel unwell. I just don't agree that those who haven't had the vaccine should be told that they have blood on their hands when what the public can do to protect yourself is get the vaccine, for yourself. 

Statistically, if you contract covid you are more likely to end up requiring hospitalisation if you’re not double jabbed. 
 

this unnecessary stress on the NHS is causing many consequential deaths for other conditions and illnesses that can’t be treated as they would normally have been 

 

I’m sure that some will bring up smoking and obesity - smokers contribute huge amounts of tax into the system and the growing obesity crisis does need addressing. 

 

it’s pretty straightforward - get double jabbed and take the risk of added stress off the NHS - that’s good for all of us and you never know…..it may even save your own life aswell. 

[FoxesDeb]

1 minute ago, pmcla26 said:

Just for the record, I'm not anti-vax. I haven't had both doses, but I wouldn't encourage others to not get it. I'm just doing what I think is right, same as those who have had all doses think they are doing what is right.

 

You assume all the unvaccinated don't give an f about those around them - well, I still give a f about those around me by wearing a face covering, washing my hands and doing regular lateral flows if I feel unwell. I just don't agree that those who haven't had the vaccine should be told that they have blood on their hands when what the public can do to protect yourself is get the vaccine, for yourself. 

Right for who? 

 

And I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself, but getting the vaccine is not just about protecting yourself, it's also for the protection of the wider public. Those people who may be fit and healthy but unlucky enough to succumb to covid. Those who are double vaccinated but still vulnerable to it, for example the elderly or those with health issues. Those who for medical reasons are unable to have the vaccine themselves, but are relying on others to protect them by reducing the risk of transmission. People who need treatment for unrelated illnesses which they are unable to access due to the hospitals being clogged up with unvaccinated clowns who didn't need to be there had they been vaccinated. 

 

Christ, why are we even still discussing this? People don't need me to tell them the facts, the data is being produced worldwide! 

 

I don't want to be harsh, and I have a son who has similar feelings to you, but honestly the selfishness is really starting to test my patience, and I dont see why we shouldn't call it out for what it is. Pure fvcking me me me selfishness. And for what reason? 

[Parafox]

1 minute ago, FoxesDeb said:

Right for who? 

 

And I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself, but getting the vaccine is not just about protecting yourself, it's also for the protection of the wider public. Those people who may be fit and healthy but unlucky enough to succumb to covid. Those who are double vaccinated but still vulnerable to it, for example the elderly or those with health issues. Those who for medical reasons are unable to have the vaccine themselves, but are relying on others to protect them by reducing the risk of transmission. People who need treatment for unrelated illnesses which they are unable to access due to the hospitals being clogged up with unvaccinated clowns who didn't need to be there had they been vaccinated. 

 

Christ, why are we even still discussing this? People don't need me to tell them the facts, the data is being produced worldwide! 

 

I don't want to be harsh, and I have a son who has similar feelings to you, but honestly the selfishness is really starting to test my patience, and I dont see why we shouldn't call it out for what it is. And for what reason? 

"People who need treatment for unrelated illnesses which they are unable to access due to the hospitals being clogged up with unvaccinated clowns who didn't need to be there had they been vaccinated". 

 

"Pure fvcking me me me selfishness".

 

I can almost hear your fingers bashing the keyboard . However, I agree with you. I will never understand the reasoning of people who refuse the vaccine. Give me a genuine, logical, tried and tested argument against it and I might think differently

[Zear0]

17 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Just for the record, I'm not anti-vax. I haven't had both doses, but I wouldn't encourage others to not get it. I'm just doing what I think is right, same as those who have had all doses think they are doing what is right.

 

You assume all the unvaccinated don't give an f about those around them - well, I still give a f about those around me by wearing a face covering, washing my hands and doing regular lateral flows if I feel unwell. I just don't agree that those who haven't had the vaccine should be told that they have blood on their hands when what you can do to protect yourself is get the vaccine, for yourself. 

As the forum member who works in an ICU, and the media are reporting, these units are almost, if not already at capacity full of unvaccinated people fighting COVID.

 

Whilst a rather cruel concept to ask you about, but if me, you or any of our respective family members weren't able to be treated due to an accident or illness as the unvaccinated were taking up the beds, what would think?  Describing those who've made their choice as "having blood on their hands" would be putting it too kindly in my opinion. 

[FoxesDeb]

4 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Personal apprehension over something that is still relatively new. 

 

I don't see how I'm being selfish either when I listed some of the various things that I do to be conscious for others in my last post. Like I said, I'm not anti-vax, I'm not encouraging anyone to follow me or saying I'm right - I'm just saying let's not condemn every unvaccinated person in the way that some are, I said it in a previous post but we're all in this together regardless of vaccination status.

 

I respect where you're coming from and I don't want you to have to explain anything again, but to call unvaccinated people "clowns" and say I'm "selfish" is just a bit much, imo. 

I've been quite restrained. 

[st albans fox]

I had a guy working for me until September 

 

He’s in his forties, fairly fit, a little overweight but not by much 

 

three young daughters 

 

he had to stop working because he had fallen ill

 

it took the NHS so long to find out what was wrong with him that he became too ill to work - and once they worked out what operation he needed he was too weak to have it.  I think he will be dead within six months 

 

why did it take so long for his condition to be diagnosed?  Because the system isn’t working properly because of covid. 
 

those who are putting unnecessary pressure on the system are partly responsible for excess deaths - not just of the elderly and vulnerable 

 

it’s about time that the media highlighted these cases and made it clear that the unvaccinated are adding to the problem 

[HighPeakFox]

30 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

When you put that question forward, it does hammer it home a bit more and I have to say yeah, I do totally get @FoxesDeb and others' POV too. I shouldn't have engaged in discussion as I feel it's gone a bit more into vaccine opinions than I would have liked it to and didn't mean to offend anyone, the original point was just about saying to try to look past vaccination status when it comes to forming opinions on others.

Without wishing to patronise, I hope some people will give you a little leeway, as you're young and we should all remember how many things we said when we were your age. If you were my age, I'd have far less compassion.

[Paninistickers]

59 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

As the forum member who works in an ICU, and the media are reporting, these units are almost, if not already at capacity full of unvaccinated people fighting COVID.

 

Whilst a rather cruel concept to ask you about, but if me, you or any of our respective family members weren't able to be treated due to an accident or illness as the unvaccinated were taking up the beds, what would think?  Describing those who've made their choice as "having blood on their hands" would be putting it too kindly in my opinion. 

I get and appreciate your point. But STILL don't agree with demonising the unvaxxed. 

 

Personally I'd block treatment for the unvaxxed. And before we all protest the NHS can't select or play God over patients, we certainly do over other ailments. Anything from life support machines to cancer treatments to hip replacements to toothache are routinely cancelled for budgetary or capacity reasons. 

 

Most unvaxxed are (or at least should be) kinda happy to take their chances. 

[Lionator]

Part of the messaging problem at the moment is that vaccines don't stop you getting covid. Which is true. However, 6 months later you're still a lot less likely to catch it compared to somebody who isn't vaccinated and most current cases in double vaccinated people are in those who spend a lot of time with an infected case (ie a parent of a young child).

 

What's most important however is not preventing you from catching it, it's making sure that you don't end up in hospital. 6 months after your second jab and you're 80-90% less likely to end up in hospital compared to the unvaccinated IF you get infected in the first place. It's likely that with a booster this will pretty much reduce your risk of hospitalisation by even more. 

[moore_94]

 

[KrefelderFox666]

2 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

Given the situation and the fact that we're not going to get rid of covid plus with the scientists hoping that we'll eventually end up with a seasonal bug similar to what we already experience, isn't it a good thing that cases are rising and deaths are declining.

I think you have written the same as me but in your own words!

[st albans fox]

I read some stuff yesterday which was musing about the difference between the U.K. and Europe ref vaccine effectiveness 

 

we had the majority of our 50/80 y o having AZ 

 

they had Pfizer 

 

It seems that AZ is better at creating T cell immunity than Pfizer 

 

in addition, our twelve weeks between jabs may have been a better system re longer lasting immunity. 

[Wymsey]

Quite vile, really.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59402287

[WigstonWanderer]

11 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

Quite vile, really.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59402287

“Bomb disposal teams successfully detonated the parcel but found no explosive material. 

Instead, the package contained a calculator, a garden glove, four batteries, a "yellow biohazard bar", a service wipe and a quantity of paper.

 

But a supermarket receipt and a letter revealed Collins to be the culprit who sent the parcel. “
 

[Lionator]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

I read some stuff yesterday which was musing about the difference between the U.K. and Europe ref vaccine effectiveness 

 

we had the majority of our 50/80 y o having AZ 

 

they had Pfizer 

 

It seems that AZ is better at creating T cell immunity than Pfizer 

 

in addition, our twelve weeks between jabs may have been a better system re longer lasting immunity. 

Interesting but don’t all of the efficacy studies seem to show that Pfizer is a bit better at everything (infection/hospitalisation/death) not to mention is a lot safer than the AZ Vaccine. 
 

Both are miracles by the way. 

[dsr-burnley]

4 hours ago, pmcla26 said:

Just for the record, I'm not anti-vax. I haven't had both doses, but I wouldn't encourage others to not get it. I'm just doing what I think is right, same as those who have had all doses think they are doing what is right.

 

You assume all the unvaccinated don't give an f about those around them - well, I still give a f about those around me by wearing a face covering, washing my hands and doing regular lateral flows if I feel unwell. I just don't agree that those who haven't had the vaccine should be told that they have blood on their hands when what you can do to protect yourself is get the vaccine, for yourself. 

If you drive a car, it is important for your own safety that you get it properly serviced and make sure the brakes and steering work.  If you don't get the service, then you are putting your own life at risk.

 

Obviously while driving my fully serviced car, with all possible precautions taken to keep it healthy, I am still in danger of killing someone else, as well as myself, with it.  But I'm a good deal less likely to kill someone else with a healthy car than I am with a wreck.

 

That's the principle, and it's the same principle with coronavirus vaccines.  Yes, you may infect and kill someone after you have had the vaccine, just as you may infect and kill someone if you haven't had it.  But if you haven't had it, you're more likely to infect and kill a third party.

 

I don't quite get whether you don't believe that a vaccinated person is less likely to pass it on, or if you just don't think it's important.

[dsr-burnley]

1 hour ago, WigstonWanderer said:

“Bomb disposal teams successfully detonated the parcel but found no explosive material. 

Instead, the package contained a calculator, a garden glove, four batteries, a "yellow biohazard bar", a service wipe and a quantity of paper.

 

But a supermarket receipt and a letter revealed Collins to be the culprit who sent the parcel. “
 

"Collins admitted sending the package without being prompted to but denied intending to create a bomb scare, claiming he believed the items he was posting would be useful to workers at the factory."

 

His defence is as stupid as the way he got himself caught.  Did he really say that with a straight face and think anyone could believe it?

[Dunge]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

I read some stuff yesterday which was musing about the difference between the U.K. and Europe ref vaccine effectiveness 

 

we had the majority of our 50/80 y o having AZ 

 

they had Pfizer 

 

It seems that AZ is better at creating T cell immunity than Pfizer 

 

in addition, our twelve weeks between jabs may have been a better system re longer lasting immunity. 

 

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

Interesting but don’t all of the efficacy studies seem to show that Pfizer is a bit better at everything (infection/hospitalisation/death) not to mention is a lot safer than the AZ Vaccine. 
 

Both are miracles by the way. 

I suspect the gap between the jabs is what’s helping most. That was something the UK did specifically different. I don’t think there’s a lot between the two “brands” either way.

[KrefelderFox666]

9 hours ago, st albans fox said:

I read some stuff yesterday which was musing about the difference between the U.K. and Europe ref vaccine effectiveness 

 

we had the majority of our 50/80 y o having AZ 

 

they had Pfizer 

 

It seems that AZ is better at creating T cell immunity than Pfizer 

 

in addition, our twelve weeks between jabs may have been a better system re longer lasting immunity. 

I think the biggest problem in some other countries is simply the lower uptake. And the fact that they are not as far as the UK in boosters. For example, in Germany, boosters are under 10%. Here we are approaching 30%. There are many factors and as above mentions, Pfizer has been proven to be that little bit more effective than AZ but these are fine margins.

 

For me, the clear difference is the top up is much more advanced here (both by natural infections after July and now boosters). On that last point, Covid ripped through the younger ages in summer months giving them natural immunity for winter whereas boosters are mostly the elderly. So actually, we are probably looking closer to 50% who have either natural or booster immunity right now.

 

Going to be interesting how the next months go, both here and across the borders.

[Spudulike]

It's been thought for quite some time that Astra Zeneca vaccine produces a more robust T Cell response. Study is ongoing to understand if there's something in that. The results will be interesting given that most of Europe refused it (thanks to that little French bloke). 

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, Spudulike said:

It's been thought for quite some time that Astra Zeneca vaccine produces a more robust T Cell response. Study is ongoing to understand if there's something in that. The results will be interesting given that most of Europe refused it (thanks to that little French bloke). 

This was my point 

the more vulnerable age group in this country to serious illness  (50/75)  largely had AZ and could be benefitting from T cell protection from either contracting covid or becoming seriously ill as a consequence of infection. The Europeans  are relying on the mRNA vaccines which have a better antibody response than AZ.  But we know the antibodies wane over time whereas we don’t know what happens ref T cells. Of course this is all under analysis and we probably won’t have any initial answers until later on in the winter.
 

[Babylon]

Positive test result today… whoop!