Coronavirus Thread

[z-layrex]

53 minutes ago, adam said:

I'm not being a knob here but out of interest was he vaccinated? 

Nope, they almost never are. 

[FoxesDeb]

54 minutes ago, Harpenden Fox said:

I was in Portugal last week - not sure if rules have changed subsequently - but I didn’t have to show a vax certificate (unlike Germany the week before, where you must show it at very venue). Mask wearing in both countries seemed close to 100% from what I saw 

Yeah it's changing on Wednesday to tighten up. Mask wearing was 100% last time we were there too, even when the rules had relaxed and you didn't need to wear them outside. It's the same here, though, I can't remember the last time I saw someone not wearing one. 

[Buce]

7 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

It’s precautionary at the moment 

I guess (apt for supermarkets) ‘every little helps’ !

 

if they become more concerned then masks in the workplace will come in, especially in situations where you’re up close (like queues in the canteen)

 

If every little helps, then surely that's all the more reason to make it society-wide?

 

It seems every response to this virus is partial and too little, too late. We've just lost 30,000 care workers who weren't vaccine compliant (in an industry that is already at crisis levels of staff shortages) yet visitors to care homes do not have the same restrictions. We have the ridiculous situation where my missus - triple jabbed and wearing full PPE - is caring for someone whose visitor is not vaccinated and (reluctantly) wearing a thin cotton mask.

 

All I'm asking is for some joined-up thinking from the government.

[Farrington fox]

19 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Nope, I’ve thought about it and it’s still you ……

 

ironically your language has let your ‘mask’ slip 

 

Stop playing games on here 

 

if you’re anti stuff then stand your corner and make your arguments 

 

otherwise don’t bother posting nonsense 

 

there are those on here who argue their points and we all know where they stand and respect their viewpoint (even if we don’t agree)

 

you are pretending ……. Eventually you will get found out and you have. 

I’m not pretending. My position is this. I am not anti vax. I’ve had both, though I’m uncertain as to whether to have a booster. If the only option is mRNA I won’t. I am anti mandatory vaccine. I am anti mandatory masks. I am vociferously against lockdown of any sort. I will accept social distancing in public. And I am against so called vaccine passports. My overriding instinct is to oppose any laws that restrict our fundamental civil liberties imposed by this overbearing government using emergency powers granted by itself. 
 

Now it’s obvious being on here a week, I’m in a minority of one. I apologise if I’ve offended anyone, you can ridicule me all you like, but you won’t change my views. I may well have fallen half way down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole. Time will tell. But I truly believe there is more to this than protecting people against a virus. 

[CosbehFox]

Well the other half has gone down with it now. Positive lateral flow. Head cold for her. I don’t feel too bad so far; headaches come and go 

[grth2004]

Just now, Cardiff_Fox said:

Well the other half has gone down with it now. Positive lateral flow. Head cold for her. I don’t feel too bad so far; headaches come and go 

Yeah same this weekend for me she’s positive and struggling I’m just feeling tired and a few headaches but negative PCR 🤷‍♂️ For me , think I’m going for another one today to be sure 

[CosbehFox]

Just now, grth2004 said:

Yeah same this weekend for me she’s positive and struggling I’m just feeling tired and a few headaches but negative PCR 🤷‍♂️ For me , think I’m going for another one today to be sure 

I got it first and the other half has been doing daily lateral flows. We accepted that we would both get it rather than try to divide the house up. That said I know a fair few who that never happened to including my brother (albeit his partner had only just had her second jab)

[FoxesDeb]

3 minutes ago, Farrington fox said:

I’m not pretending. My position is this. I am not anti vax. I’ve had both, though I’m uncertain as to whether to have a booster. If the only option is mRNA I won’t. I am anti mandatory vaccine. I am anti mandatory masks. I am vociferously against lockdown of any sort. I will accept social distancing in public. And I am against so called vaccine passports. My overriding instinct is to oppose any laws that restrict our fundamental civil liberties imposed by this overbearing government using emergency powers granted by itself. 
 

Now it’s obvious being on here a week, I’m in a minority of one. I apologise if I’ve offended anyone, you can ridicule me all you like, but you won’t change my views. I may well have fallen half way down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole. Time will tell. But I truly believe there is more to this than protecting people against a virus. 

I'm curious about this bit. Do you believe this is true for every government then? Here in Spain our lockdown was more strict, we weren't allowed out at all, only to shop. Only one person was allowed to do that, and it had to be your local shop only, even if that shop was a tiny corner shop. We had the civil guards stopping everyone at the town boundaries, and people trying to travel out of their local area were fined and turned around. 2 people in a car, turned around and fined. The UK lockdown was relaxed in comparison, and I think much of Europe was similar to here. Indeed worldwide, governments were stricter. So why do you object to your government so much? Do you truly believe that the governments of the world are all in some kind of conspiracy together? 

[VLC86]

32 minutes ago, grth2004 said:

Ok thanks just feels weird to have it so close after months of mask wearing then it’s in your house and you don’t get it , only theory I have is that my immune system got rid of it before I got ill. 
I was pretty ill after the first vaccine so maybe that was a good thing I’m thinking now. 
my other half is constantly in pain with it at the moment but hopefully over the worst 

The first vaccine is the worst I’ve felt in my adult life but I still caught it and 5 months on my sense of smell is pretty much non existent, which incidentally isn’t a bad thing as by all accounts the strange chap who sits next to us at the football kept dropping horrendous farts yesterday.

[st albans fox]

55 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

Beginning?!!!! 

 

The whole caboodle has been a joke since day 1. Like mask wearing on a plane, unless you are having a cuppa. Then, obvs, it's entirely safe. 

if you’re wearing a mask for 80% of the time then you’re reducing the amount of stuff you’re breathing out by 80%
 

it’s just basic risk assessment 

 

wearing a seatbelt - why do it all the time ?  After all, you’re only going to have a bad crash once (if at all?)

[leicsmac]

57 minutes ago, Farrington fox said:

I’m not pretending. My position is this. I am not anti vax. I’ve had both, though I’m uncertain as to whether to have a booster. If the only option is mRNA I won’t. I am anti mandatory vaccine. I am anti mandatory masks. I am vociferously against lockdown of any sort. I will accept social distancing in public. And I am against so called vaccine passports. My overriding instinct is to oppose any laws that restrict our fundamental civil liberties imposed by this overbearing government using emergency powers granted by itself. 
 

Now it’s obvious being on here a week, I’m in a minority of one. I apologise if I’ve offended anyone, you can ridicule me all you like, but you won’t change my views. I may well have fallen half way down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole. Time will tell. But I truly believe there is more to this than protecting people against a virus. 

I don't think you're alone on here in holding that viewpoint, and if this situation we're a bit different then I might agree.

 

However,  if I may, could I ask you to consider the following:

 

If the objective of a conspiracy is increased or continued government control, then why involve an element (in the form of an early mutating virus) that is practically beyond their control in the first place? Relying on such a random and uncontrollable element for success strikes me as rather illogical and not something a competent conspiracy would engage in - not when there are many other easier controlled boogeymen to choose from.

[Farrington fox]

1 hour ago, FoxesDeb said:

I'm curious about this bit. Do you believe this is true for every government then? Here in Spain our lockdown was more strict, we weren't allowed out at all, only to shop. Only one person was allowed to do that, and it had to be your local shop only, even if that shop was a tiny corner shop. We had the civil guards stopping everyone at the town boundaries, and people trying to travel out of their local area were fined and turned around. 2 people in a car, turned around and fined. The UK lockdown was relaxed in comparison, and I think much of Europe was similar to here. Indeed worldwide, governments were stricter. So why do you object to your government so much? Do you truly believe that the governments of the world are all in some kind of conspiracy together? 

The measures you describe in Spain sound absolutely horrendous and completely ott. I don’t think governments are involved necessarily in a conspiracy, more of an agenda, probably associated with the net zero green movement. 

[SpacedX]

1 hour ago, Farrington fox said:

 I am vociferously against lockdown of any sort.

None of us like it. Out of curiosity, may I ask why you are vociferously against it? Do you accept that it saves lives, reduces clinical burden and buys time, which is what it is designed to do? 

[Leicester_Loyal]

14 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

I'm gonna say this is all one big push to up the vaccine booster numbers, nothing else. Masks required in supermarkets and public transport because they know people have to use them either way, if they made them a requirement in pubs, restaurants or any other social place, the visitors would dwindle and the economy would take another hit.

 

Booster age now being lowered to 18 very shortly.

 

Didn't see that coming Meanwhile in South Africa they're partying on as normal

[Buce]

8 minutes ago, Farrington fox said:

The measures you describe in Spain sound absolutely horrendous and completely ott. I don’t think governments are involved necessarily in a conspiracy, more of an agenda, probably associated with the net zero green movement. 

 

Would you care to explain your thinking on this?

[SpacedX]

5 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Booster age now being lowered to 18 very shortly.

 

Didn't see that coming Meanwhile in South Africa they're partying on as normal

They will be - it's summer there. 

[Farrington fox]

28 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I don't think you're alone on here in holding that viewpoint, and if this situation we're a bit different then I might agree.

 

However,  if I may, could I ask you to consider the following:

 

If the objective of a conspiracy is increased or continued government control, then why involve an element (in the form of an early mutating virus) that is practically beyond their control in the first place? Relying on such a random and uncontrollable element for success strikes me as rather illogical and not something a competent conspiracy would engage in - not when there are many other easier controlled boogeymen to choose from.

Well I would argue this pandemic and the issues of variants give them a good excuse to reimpose restrictions. Look at this one, as yet there is no evidence at all that it’s worse than delta, but let’s put the mask mandate back in just in case. That move, I suspect was to appease those screaming for plan b. As in ‘we have to be seen to be doing something’. Can I ask you. Why do you believe millions of people have protested in many Countries around the world against these restrictions on our lives. Police even using live rounds against them in Rotterdam. Or do you believe they’re all conspiracy therory nutters. These government policies have destroyed and ruined far more lives than this virus ever will. 

[Farrington fox]

10 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Would you care to explain your thinking on this?

I just have, further down the thread. 

[Buce]

2 minutes ago, Farrington fox said:

I just have, further down the thread. 

 

The post I quoted is the first time you've mentioned the net zero green movement (sic)

[Farrington fox]

14 minutes ago, Line-X said:

None of us like it. Out of curiosity, may I ask why you are vociferously against it? Do you accept that it saves lives, reduces clinical burden and buys time, which is what it is designed to do? 

I supported the very first lockdown, as it was all new and I was genuinely concerned maybe even afraid. As for whether it saves lives and reduces health care burden. Looking at where we are now as a result of 1 or 2 further lockdowns, no. Millions on waiting lists for other things. God knows how many undiagnosed cancers and other diseases. Deaths at home and that’s before you start on mental illness. They cause nothing but destruction in my opinion. For godsake, we need to start living normally again. 

[leicsmac]

12 minutes ago, Farrington fox said:

Well I would argue this pandemic and the issues of variants give them a good excuse to reimpose restrictions. Look at this one, as yet there is no evidence at all that it’s worse than delta, but let’s put the mask mandate back in just in case. That move, I suspect was to appease those screaming for plan b. As in ‘we have to be seen to be doing something’. Can I ask you. Why do you believe millions of people have protested in many Countries around the world against these restrictions on our lives. Police even using live rounds against them in Rotterdam. Or do you believe they’re all conspiracy therory nutters. These government policies have destroyed and ruined far more lives than this virus ever will. 

I think perhaps we're talking past each other here, but allow me to restate:

 

I think that if world governments were going to pick a conspiracy to increase or maintain their level of control, then a more human based boogeyman would serve the purpose just fine (it did so post September 11th after all), so why take the extra risk, complexity and loss of control by using an object of nature that might easily spin beyond your control instead?

 

It doesn't make any sense that an entity interested in increased control would use an object that they can't control as a means to achieve that end. This virus, like any other part of nature, could turn on them as easily as those they seek to control.

 

So yes, I think anyone buying the conspiracy angle on this, no matter how many there are,  haven't thought it through to a logical conclusion. Or if there is a conspiracy, the folks involved haven't thought it through because they are tampering with a power they can't possibly hope to control.

 

I don't like the idea of how much disruption this has caused as much as you don't like it, but at the end of the day, as I've said repeatedly, a virus doesn't care what we want or don't want.

 

I cannot state this strongly enough, for the benefit of yourself and anyone else on here: *The virus is the enemy here.*

 

NB. Global average temperature increase is an empirical fact and one we must address. "Net zero" is part of that, unless you're OK with the idea of global upheaval that would make this virus look like a pleasant day at the seaside.

 

 

Edited 29 November 2021 by leicsmac

[jgtuk]

15 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

The post I quoted is the first time you've mentioned the net zero green movement (sic)

He won't because he can't (without quoting some crank facebook specialist).

[Finnaldo]

5 minutes ago, Farrington fox said:

The measures you describe in Spain sound absolutely horrendous and completely ott. I don’t think governments are involved necessarily in a conspiracy, more of an agenda, probably associated with the net zero green movement. 

I wish I had as much confidence as you in the government actually being remotely bothered about climate change, yet alone enough as to partake in a global agenda  

 

In seriousness, I think you’re searching in the wrong places and massively overplaying the goals of this government. As I’ve linked to you previously, the most reliable Tory base is the elderly pensioners. The majority wanting the most radical of measures even previous to Omnicron, including indefinitely shutting down entire industries, were generally Conservative voters and 55+. Of course they can’t bank solely on the elderly on elections so they have to compromise with the wills of the younger/less enthusiastic regarding lockdown. 
 

The Conservatives are simply playing to the portions of extremely authoritarian-minded British public, as that’s where their votes lie. It’s absolutely no different from day-to-day politics. 

[orangecity23]

Thinking the government can't be trusted about everything is understandable - thinking they can't be trusted about anything is tinfoil hat land. This is a Tory government, their "hidden motives" aren't a big secret, they openly tell you everytime they get a chance. Did former Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt have a secret agenda to privatise the NHS? Well, he wrote a flipping book about it, so the idea may have ocurred to him, yes.

You know what their motives are - about making money for friends and donors, inflating share prices and house prices, not so bothered about the average pleb who gets their money from working a 9 to 5. Apply that logic to the pandemic, and you can see what they did that suits their values, and stuff they had to do because it was necessary.

 

• Initial lockdown, no one allowed in your home - probably necessary. Exemption for estate agents and Nannies/cleaners - Tory priority -gotta keep them house prices high, Rees Mogg doesn't fancy taking care of his own children so needs the hired help to do it for him.
• Furlough payments for workers -begrudingly necessary to prevent millions jobless. When in their history have Tories been in favour of handouts to working people?
• Stamp duty waived - pump up that housing market some more - Tory priority
• Red list India to stop Delta variant - nah, trying to get that juicy trade deal, so the money takes priority
• Eat out to help out - helps businesses, get the economy moving, obvious Tory move. Encourages spread of virus - whoops, never mind
• Pre Christmas lockdown 2020 - Scientists warned something was needed based on the numbers, but government dithered because it would make them look like Grinches, until they'd messed around to long and they had to take more serious action because they'd messed about in the first place. See also, Schools shut after Christmas after being open a day - messing around, not organised, left the decision until the last minute because they didn't really want to do it.

There's a general rule of thumb, that you shouldn't assume malice when thing scan be explained by human incompetence, and as iterations of government go, our current one ranks pretty highly on the incompetence scale.

 

So wearing masks in shops - where is the angle? Where is the money to be made? Unless MPs have all been buying up shares in mask companies, there's not really any money angle to work. Compliance? How does getting everyone to wear a bit of cloth on their face keep evryone under control? Are people being dragged off to Gulag's for refusing to wear one? No, they've just been told not to come in Lidl until they pop one on, then they can come in no problems. It's no more means a method of control than asking that you don't go into the supermarket without a T-shirt or some shoes on. It's a temporary health and safety measure, that allows people to tick a box on a risk assessment to say they've taken action to mitigate the risk of Coronavirus by lowering the likelihood of infection, so you can keep the shop open without being sued for infecting people or breaching the Health and Safety at Work act.

[Farrington fox]

18 minutes ago, jgtuk said:

He won't because he can't (without quoting some crank facebook specialist).

I used the word ‘probably’ maybe I should have said,possibly. You’re right, I don’t know. But I am entitled to have a view, dismiss if you wish.