Coronavirus Thread

[FoxesDeb]

4 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

Don't shoot the messanger guys, I'm just passing on the message from our amazing prime minister 

What? When have we been advised to ignore the science, put the wider public at risk, not bother getting vaccinated so we can carry on with restrictions and potentially screw over the health service?  I really feel like you're just trolling now. You have to be. Nobody can possibly have had things explained to them over and over and over and over again, and still not grasp it. 

 

 

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, GingerrrFox said:

How? Vaccinated people can be infected with COVID and Vaccinated people also have the same viral load for Delta and Omicron as unvaccinated people. Why is it international travel is pretty much exclusively for vaccinated people and yet Omicron has still found it’s way here? 

It’s not almost exclusively for the vaccinated, you just have to have more tests.

I know plenty of people who have been abroad without being vaccinated. You aren’t half peddling some shite today.

[Guest Harrydc]

I'm not going to get into any arguments with anyone. But what we do know is that double vaccinated people are still able to transmit and carry the virus including this new varient. For me personally, I have a 98.5 chance of surviving the virus if I catch it. I also have a 100% chance of surviving the vaccine if I don't take it.

 

I know where I stand. 

[GingerrrFox]

10 minutes ago, Strokes said:

It’s not almost exclusively for the vaccinated, you just have to have more tests.

I know plenty of people who have been abroad without being vaccinated. You aren’t half peddling some shite today.

So omicron found it’s way here from people who had to test more to prove that they weren’t infected, rather than people who are able to travel with less testing who can still carry the virus that the test is designed to spot? Sorry for pointing out the hypocrisies of why people care so much about other people’s vaccination status. Tbh should it even be called a vaccine at this point? Or should it should be called a drug/treatment? Because it minimise symptoms after an infection, whereas the whole point of a vaccine is to stop infection. Personally I just don’t care if other people are vaccinated or not because without a test, vaccinated or unvaccinated they can still give me COVID. 

Edited 4 December 2021 by GingerrrFox

[Robo61]

4 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

How? Vaccinated people can be infected with COVID and Vaccinated people also have the same viral load for Delta and Omicron as unvaccinated people. Why is it international travel is pretty much exclusively for vaccinated people and yet Omicron has still found it’s way here? 

Tbis has been covered times already on here by people more knowledgable than me I suggest you go back and at least try and understand.  But I know you won't as its clear to me that you have no wish to understand, you are happy with your opinion,  because to you and other like you its your opinion that matters and not truth. 

[Strokes]

4 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

So omicron found it’s way here from people who had to test more to prove that they weren’t infected, rather than people who are able to travel with less testing who can still carry the virus that the test is designed to spot? Sorry for pointing out the hypocrisies of why people care so much about other people’s vaccination status. Tbh should it even be called a vaccine at this point? Or should it should be called a drug/treatment? Because it minimise symptoms after an infection, whereas the whole point of a vaccine is to prevent infection. Personally I just don’t care if other people are vaccinated or not because without a test, vaccinated or unvaccinated they can still give me COVID. 

Who the **** knows? You can speculate as much as you like but non of it is a factual based argument. You just make things up to fit your agenda.

[SpacedX]

1 hour ago, Harrydc said:

As a *relatively* healthy 23 year old, I should be able to asses the risk of both covid and the vaccination . 

Yes you should. Not sure why you can't. 

[Heathrow fox]

11 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

I'm not going to get into any arguments with anyone. But what we do know is that double vaccinated people are still able to transmit and carry the virus including this new varient. For me personally, I have a 98.5 chance of surviving the virus if I catch it. I also have a 100% chance of surviving the vaccine if I don't take it.

 

I know where I stand. 

That’s fair enough,but please spare us the bleating about you losing your freedoms 👍

[GingerrrFox]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

Who the **** knows? You can speculate as much as you like but non of it is a factual based argument. You just make things up to fit your agenda.

What am I making up? Scientists have confirmed that vaccinated and unvaccinated people carry the same viral load for Delta and initial reports for

Omicron suggest the same. So if someone doesn’t have to test as much because they are vaccinated compared to someone who is unvaccinated, they can still be infected because the vaccine doesn’t stop infection and they are also as contagious as a non-vaccinated person. So for me the only thing I care about is someone testing to be negative because the only thing the vaccine is shown to do is reduce symptoms if you have it. 

[SpacedX]

13 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

I'm not going to get into any arguments with anyone. But what we do know is that double vaccinated people are still able to transmit and carry the virus including this new varient. For me personally, I have a 98.5 chance of surviving the virus if I catch it. I also have a 100% chance of surviving the vaccine if I don't take it.

 

I know where I stand. 

For possibly the hundredth time over the past twelve months, this isn't just about you. Moreover, should you contract it, you have no idea of how SARS-Cov-19 could affect you of the long term effects on your health. 

 

And genuinely asking out of concern, I thought you had experienced a recent health scare? I would have assumed this may have made you more aware of the dangers of Covid, particularly since the virus can attack every organ. I trust that all is ok and your tests were good news? 

[Buce]

UK’s progress on Covid now squandered, warns top scientist

Sir Jeremy Farrar, director of Wellcome Trust, suggests emergence of Omicron variant means pandemic is far from over

 

The emergence of the Omicron variant shows that the world is “closer to the start of the pandemic than the end”, one of Britain’s most senior scientific figures has warned, as he lamented a lack of political leadership over Covid.

Sir Jeremy Farrar, the director of the Wellcome Trust who stepped down as a government scientific adviser last month, said the progress in combatting Covid-19 since its emergence was “being squandered”.

 

Writing in the Observer, he said rich countries had been taking “a very blinkered domestic focus, lulled into thinking that the worst of the pandemic was behind us”. He said while he was cautiously hopeful that current vaccines would protect against severe illness from Omicron, that may not be true for future variants.

“The longer this virus continues to spread in largely unvaccinated populations globally, the more likely it is that a variant that can overcome our vaccines and treatments will emerge,” he writes. “If that happens, we could be close to square one.

“This political drift and lack of leadership is prolonging the pandemic for everyone, with governments unwilling to really address inequitable access to the vaccines, tests and treatment. There have been wonderful speeches, warm words, but not the actions needed to ensure fair access to what we know works and would bring the pandemic to a close.”

He said that the urgent action needed had not changed – “wearing masks indoors, increasing testing, social distancing, isolating if positive (with support to do so) and vaccination will all help to drive down transmission and protect against illness.”

 

Farrar’s intervention came as a major charity raised concerns about the government’s booster jab campaign, which it sees as the best current method of combating the virus. Caroline Abrahams, charity director at Age UK, said the programme was “frankly in a mess”. She said: “It’s way behind where it should be, and to hear this week that as many as one in five care home residents have not yet had their boosters was nothing short of alarming.”

She spoke out after some targets for GPs were suspended to allow them to concentrate on administering jabs. Routine health checks for the over-75s and for new patients may be deferred under the new guidance.

“Against this context we agree that the top priority now is to turbo-charge the booster programme, to ensure as many older and vulnerable people as possible get their jabs, and fast,” said Abrahams. “In the end this situation is another demonstration of how underpowered our GP system has become. Unless and until we invest more heavily in it we will continue to see these hard choices arising whenever a crisis comes along, and that’s certainly not in any one’s interests, least of all older people’s.”

 

 On Saturday Downing Street announced that it was introducing pre-departure tests for people travelling to the UK. From 4am on Tuesday, travellers will have to complete a lateral flow or PCR test 48 hours before entering the country. Nigeria has been added to the red list, and from 4am on Monday arrivals will have to quarantine in hotels. Officials said the moves came as evidence emerged that the Omicron strain had been reported in more than 40 countries, with apparent community transmission in places such as Norway. They also said there was evidence that the incubation period was shorter than for other variants.

Labour had been pushing for the introduction of the tests. A Downing Street source said that new evidence about the spread of the variant and its characteristics had driven the decision. It will cause further frustration for the travel industry, which has been heavily affected by Covid restrictions.

 

The sudden spread of Omicron has dismayed many scientists. “What has really surprised me has been the rapidity of the increase in numbers of cases being reported from South Africa,” said Prof François Balloux of University College London. “Cases are doubling at a rate I have never seen before. It is very worrying.”

Early estimates have suggested this rise is being driven by the fact that the Omicron variant can infect between three and six times as many people as Delta, over the same time period. It is an alarming figure that has been balanced by early reports which have suggested the variant is, at present, less likely to lead to hospitalisation.

 

However, scientists last week warned caution should be taken with such data. “It is already a tight situation. Even if Omicron is less likely to cause severe illness, it may still cause more hospitalisations and put further strain on the health service, because so many more people will become infected,” said Prof Rowland Kao, of Edinburgh University.

 

There is also evidence that more than one in four (27%) British workers would turn up for work with symptoms of the Omicron variant because they needed the money, including 23% of those whose job puts them at increased risk of infection. Also, 16% of workers say they would be able to work from home, but are not allowed to by their employer, according to polling for the Royal Society for Arts, Manufacturers and Commerce (RSA). Just 31% say they would get support from their employer beyond statutory sick pay.

 

“To secure the economic recovery, workers must be economically secure,” said Anthony Painter, RSA’s chief research officer. “In the short term, we need to see an ‘auto-furlough’ system and more generous sick pay, but long term, both the Conservatives and Labour must spell out how they will address the deep economic insecurity Covid has only exposed.”

Saturday saw further demonstrations in Europe against various governments’ coronavirus measures. In Austria, the first country in the EU to announce that it is to make vaccination against Covid mandatory, more than 40,000 joined a protest in Vienna.

 

The Dutch city of Utrecht saw several thousand demonstrate against restrictions that were introduced last weekend. Protesters carried banners reading “Medical Freedom Now!”. Many protesters denounced what they see as increasing pressure from the Dutch government to get vaccinated if they want to participate in regular society.

In Frankfurt, Germany, police broke up a demonstration of several hundred people for failing to wear masks or maintain social distancing, using batons and pepper spray after they were attacked by a group of protesters. In Berlin, small groups gathered to protest after a large demonstration was banned.

Edited 4 December 2021 by Buce

[orangecity23]

Stats from Australia in October, from the Guardian:

356 intensive care covid patients, of which 25 were fully vaccinated.

Quote

Between 16 June and 18 October there were 61 deaths among fully vaccinated people in New South Wales, from a total of 479 Covid deaths. Data provided to Guardian Australia by NSW Health shows of the deaths in the fully vaccinated, all were aged 50 or above. Of those who died, five were in their 50s, one in their 60s, 17 in their 70s, 22 in their 80s and 16 in their 90s.

On Friday, the ABC revealed 36 of the 49 aged care residents who have died after contracting Covid during NSW’s Delta outbreak were fully vaccinated. All had underlying health conditions or were in palliative care.

In Victoria, 174 Covid-19 deaths occurred between 30 August and 19 October 2021. Of these, 129 were not vaccinated, 25 were partially vaccinated, and 20 were fully vaccinated with two doses. Of the 20 deaths that were fully vaccinated, one was aged in their 50s, while the remaining 19 were all aged 70 years and over.

Prof Allen Cheng, the director of the infection prevention and healthcare epidemiology unit at Alfred Health, said only a small number of deaths had occurred in fully vaccinated people.

“I understand they have been mostly in older people over 70 years of age, with some in aged care facilities,” he said.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/oct/20/deaths-among-the-double-vaccinated-what-is-behind-the-australian-statistics

 

 

[SpacedX]

8 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

What am I making up? Scientists have confirmed that vaccinated and unvaccinated people carry the same viral load for Delta and initial reports for

Omicron suggest the same. So if someone doesn’t have to test as much because they are vaccinated compared to someone who is unvaccinated, they can still be infected because the vaccine doesn’t stop infection and they are also as contagious as a non-vaccinated person. So for me the only thing I care about is someone testing to be negative because the only thing the vaccine is shown to do is reduce symptoms if you have it. 

Those infected with the delta variant can carry similar virus levels as unvaccinated people, but the double vaccinated are less likely to become infected. However, you are absolutely right about the need for regular testing even amongst the fully vaccinated.  

 

Regarding Omicron, it is far too early to say yet. 

[Strokes]

2 hours ago, GingerrrFox said:

Well that’s not true because more people are hospitalised that are vaccinated than non-vaccinated.

 

8 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

What am I making up? Scientists have confirmed that vaccinated and unvaccinated people carry the same viral load for Delta and initial reports for

Omicron suggest the same. So if someone doesn’t have to test as much because they are vaccinated compared to someone who is unvaccinated, they can still be infected because the vaccine doesn’t stop infection and they are also as contagious as a non-vaccinated person. So for me the only thing I care about is someone testing to be negative because the only thing the vaccine is shown to do is reduce symptoms if you have it. 

The above was made up, unless you can show us otherwise? 
 

As regards the travelling, it only makes as likely that a vaccinated person carried the virus as a non vaccinated because both were subjected to testing. You can’t possibly know one way or the other.

[GingerrrFox]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

 

The above was made up, unless you can show us otherwise? 
 

As regards the travelling, it only makes as likely that a vaccinated person carried the virus as a non vaccinated because both were subjected to testing. You can’t possibly know one way or the other.

https://fullfact.org/health/economist-vaccination-status/

 

According to this 65% of hospitalisations in the UK are vaccinated. 

[Strokes]

5 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

https://fullfact.org/health/economist-vaccination-status/

 

According to this 65% of hospitalisations in the UK are vaccinated. 

Fair enough, I misinterpreted it as critically unwell. As in ICU. In which it’s massively tipped the other way round, certainly in Leicester hospitals.

[SpacedX]

7 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

https://fullfact.org/health/economist-vaccination-status/

 

According to this 65% of hospitalisations in the UK are vaccinated. 

From the link: "The vaccines substantially, but not perfectly, protect these people from severe illness. As a result, some still become ill enough to need treatment in hospital. And this small share of a large population is now enough to make up a majority of hospital admissions." 

 

We knew this and it was to be expected because the rate of vaccination is so high, it is proportionally represented in the hospital admissions - and of those, of course the vaccinated are going to number more. However, unlike the unvaccinated, only a small percentage of these would have required treatment in intensive care. 

[orangecity23]

They've got a fact check for Harry's "100% chance of avoiding side effects of the vaccine" quote as well:

https://fullfact.org/online/instagram-covid-death-misleading/?utm_source=content_page&utm_medium=related_content

 

Quote

So, although recent data shows the death rate among a largely vaccinated population is 0.2%, this does not mean the survival rate among unvaccinated people is 99.8%. 

Quote

However, evidence suggests the risk of these side effects may be higher following Covid-19 infection, compared to vaccination. 

A study published by the University of Oxford states that the risk of blood clots were substantially higher and more prolonged after a Covid-19 infection than after receiving a vaccine. 

Myocarditis is also (according to new research) more likely following infection from Covid-19 than following vaccination. 

Reiterates that the blood clot deaths linked to a vaccine was the AZ vaccine, and not the Pfizer which is currently being used.

[Pst]

57 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

I'm not going to get into any arguments with anyone. But what we do know is that double vaccinated people are still able to transmit and carry the virus including this new varient. For me personally, I have a 98.5 chance of surviving the virus if I catch it. I also have a 100% chance of surviving the vaccine if I don't take it.

 

I know where I stand. 

Mate you’re pretty thick aren’t you?

[Charl91]

1 hour ago, Harrydc said:

I'm not going to get into any arguments with anyone. But what we do know is that double vaccinated people are still able to transmit and carry the virus including this new varient. For me personally, I have a 98.5 chance of surviving the virus if I catch it. I also have a 100% chance of surviving the vaccine if I don't take it.

 

I know where I stand. 

Yeah, I understand the logic. 

 

Why, only the other day I got quite a nasty  deep cut. But I thought, well, I probably have less than 1% chance of dying from blood loss. But if I don't put a bandage on it, I have a 100% chance of not dying from bandage allergies. I know where I stand. 

[adam]

1 hour ago, Robo61 said:

Again you are not listening,  this is not only about your risk but everyone's risk if you choose to not be vaccinated and are allowed to socialise just like the rest of us then your non vaccination status is also effecting our chooses.

This is the problem now. People like you think you have the right to dictate to others what they put into their body. If you have had your jabs don't worry about others. We should not be forcing people to have vaccinations. 

[pleatout]

48 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

https://fullfact.org/health/economist-vaccination-status/

 

According to this 65% of hospitalisations in the UK are vaccinated. 

Given that 2nd doses is running at over 80%, if vacciniations made no difference you expect 80% to be vaccinated instead it is a ludiucrously caliculated 65%.

 

I say ludicrous because that figure is about as useful as the daily deaths figure.  Admissions within 28 days of a positive test.  You could have covid a fortnight ago and be run over by a bus and you'd be hospitalised with covid according to those figures.

 

Forget deaths - they are the same 28 days.   the only worthwhile figure is https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare - Daily count of confirmed COVID-19 patients in hospital at 8am, This is the only figure worth looking at. 

 

The "patients on ventilators" figure was calculated as the number of patients in beds that were capable of supplying mechanical ventilation (whether it was used or not was anyones guess).  The definition has changed and is now unclear if it is acutally the number of people in MV beds or those that require MV.

 

[pleatout]

2 minutes ago, adam said:

This is the problem now. People like you think you have the right to dictate to others what they put into their body. If you have had your jabs don't worry about others. We should not be forcing people to have vaccinations. 

The rest of us rely on the NHS for other things.  Meanwhile you may end up occupying a bed due to ignorance, belligerence, selfishness or stupidity.  I'm not sure which it is.

 

No one is dictating to you what you put in to your body. You dont have to be vaccinated.  But lock yourself away and dont go out.  That way you wont bother the NHS or the rest of society and we will all be fine. 

[adam]

1 minute ago, pleatout said:

The rest of us rely on the NHS for other things.  Meanwhile you may end up occupying a bed due to ignorance, belligerence, selfishness or stupidity.  I'm not sure which it is.

 

No one is dictating to you what you put in to your body. You dont have to be vaccinated.  But lock yourself away and dont go out.  That way you wont bother the NHS or the rest of society and we will all be fine. 

Or you could lock yourself away if your worried. 

You don't no why people won't have the vaccine. It should be a personal choice. Especially if your 23.

 

[Guest Harrydc]

1 hour ago, Line-X said:

For possibly the hundredth time over the past twelve months, this isn't just about you. Moreover, should you contract it, you have no idea of how SARS-Cov-19 could affect you of the long term effects on your health. 

 

And genuinely asking out of concern, I thought you had experienced a recent health scare? I would have assumed this may have made you more aware of the dangers of Covid, particularly since the virus can attack every organ. I trust that all is ok and your tests were good news? 

I do genuinely appreciate your concern. Regarding this I've kind of brushed it under the carpet as of late and avoided all doctors so I'm just attempting to live my 'best life' as they say 

Edited 4 December 2021 by Harrydc