Coronavirus Thread

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, GingerrrFox said:

https://fullfact.org/health/economist-vaccination-status/

 

According to this 65% of hospitalisations in the UK are vaccinated. 

if correct,
 

that means 35% are not 

 

what percentage of the population over 40 years old (which is where the vast majority of hospitalisations will be ) are not double jabbed ?

the answer is around 10%

 

I assume you accept that because 90% of the population is double jabbed in the at risk age range, that shows your stats do illustrate that being double jabbed reduces your risk of hospitalisation. 
 

In addition, as many as  10% of those double jabbed will not be protected against the worst that covid will throw at them. That means a lot of people who are double jabbed will unfortunately end up in hospital - it’s just maths ..l.

 

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, adam said:

Or you could lock yourself away if your worried. 

You don't no why people won't have the vaccine. It should be a personal choice. Especially if your 23.

 

Fwiw, if a 23 y o with no underlying health conditions strongly objects to being jabbed, i wouldn’t waste my time trying to convince them. 
 

i don’t think the unjabbed fit under 23 y o which will sustain the pandemic way longer than it needs to be. Would be useful if they all caught it though so they are de facto jabbed.  And if they could exercise a little caution and diligence to reduce the spread then that would be even better!!!  

[Mike Oxlong]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/doctors-and-nurses-vent-anger-as-unvaccinated-covid-cases-delay-vital-operations-z3zchvv9l

 

Edited 4 December 2021 by Mike Oxlong

[WigstonWanderer]

30 minutes ago, adam said:

Or you could lock yourself away if your worried. 

You don't no why people won't have the vaccine. It should be a personal choice. Especially if your 23.

 

Wait! Despite all these pages explaining, you still don’t understand!

 

In your scenario, I lock my vaccinated self away. But then get a heart attack at home, and can’t get an ICU bed because of all the deluded, selfish, unvaccinated cvnts that are clogging them all up!

[yorkie1999]

The WHO are reporting there are zero deaths so far from omicron. If that’s true, wouldn’t it be better for us if omicron takes over from delta

[CosbehFox]

 

Cautious good news from the first South Africa data re: mild symptoms but it appears if the transmission continues at its rate, the sheer numbers of vases may cause the stress. 

[dsr-burnley]

There are basically three sorts of people making up the bulk of the numbers in hospital with coronavirus.

 

1.  Otherwise healthy unvaccinated people who are seriously ill with coronavirus.

2.  Frail and elderly people, or people with other serious illnesses, who are seriously ill with coronavirus.

3.  People who are in hospital primarily for some other reason but also have coronavirus.

4.  Apparently healthy people with double jabs who are seriously ill with coronavirus.  (But there aren't many of them.)

 

Categories 1,2, 3 and 4 make up the total hospital cases, and the majority of the total have been jabbed.

 

But in intensive care, category 3 don't need it, category 2 to a large extent wouldn't benefit from it, so ICU is mostly category 1 and 4 - and category 4 is very small indeed.  Hence the large majority in intensive care who have not been vaccinated.

[adam]

1 hour ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Wait! Despite all these pages explaining, you still don’t understand!

 

In your scenario, I lock my vaccinated self away. But then get a heart attack at home, and can’t get an ICU bed because of all the deluded, selfish, unvaccinated cvnts that are clogging them all up!

That's the problem now though int it. If someone has a different opinion they are classed as deluded and selfish. 

 

The reason you can't get a bed wouldn't be down to the unvaccinated. It's down to the badly managed NHS. 

Edited 5 December 2021 by adam

[leicsmac]

16 minutes ago, adam said:

That's the problem now though int it. If someone has a different opinion they are classed as deluded and selfish. 

 

The reason you can't get a bed wouldn't be down to the unvaccinated. It's down to the badly managed NHS. 

It would be the responsibility of both. Unvaccinated people place a higher amount of pressure on the system by needing to be treated in higher proportion when they get the virus, and I'm not sure how anyone can deny that.

 

And as for the discussion above - this whole crisis has raised some interesting questions about self-determination against collective interest, but the simple evolutionary fact is that species in a time of crisis that turn to self interest go extinct, and those that chose collective interest do not. Perhaps Covid won't make us make that choice and we're lucky it won't, so we can afford people purely "looking out for number 1" and the cost be high rather than everything, but it's possible whatever the next crisis nature throws at us will.

 

The Earth simply doesn't care about our wants.

[MPH]

1 hour ago, adam said:

That's the problem now though int it. If someone has a different opinion they are classed as deluded and selfish. 

 

The reason you can't get a bed wouldn't be down to the unvaccinated. It's down to the badly managed NHS. 

I work in a hospital and work with Covid patients and I can absolutely assure you that  during the  height of the pandemic if you couldn’t get a bed it was definitely because of unvaccinated patients who make up more than 80% of our  covid patient population.

 

at the height of the pandemic we had 4 whole floors  full of Covid patients. We had to cancel hundreds of surgeries because all the beds were full of Covid patients. The cardiac wards were full of patients. We were having to turn people away who we would usually be admitted because there was no space. We had so many covid patients that not all of them could  even be admitted.

 

so yeah, it wasn’t because we had a badly managed hospital system or anything like that- the vast majority of our patients were indeed unvaccinated  patients. 

Edited 5 December 2021 by MPH

[Jon the Hat]

5 hours ago, GingerrrFox said:

https://fullfact.org/health/economist-vaccination-status/

 

According to this 65% of hospitalisations in the UK are vaccinated. 

This will happen when over 90% are vaccinated, especially as high risk people were vaccinated first.  Simple numbers.

[Facecloth]

8 hours ago, GingerrrFox said:

https://fullfact.org/health/economist-vaccination-status/

 

According to this 65% of hospitalisations in the UK are vaccinated. 

This has been explained before though hasn't it?

 

If you have 1000 people and 900 are vaccinated and 100 aren't. If 90 of the unvaccinated are in hospital, and 180 of the vaccinated are, whist the number of vaccinated people is higher and the percentage of the total group is higher, the percentage of the vaccinated people is much lower.

 

In the example above out of the 1000, 9% of the total population hospitalised are from the unvaccinated, whilst 18% are from the vaccinated, which doesn't look good for being vaccinated. But in reality of the 100 unvaccinated people  90% are in hospital, whilst of the 900 vaccinated, only 20% are in hospital.

Edited 5 December 2021 by Facecloth

[oxford blue]

Jimmy Carr has some has some good advice for anti-vaxxers:

 

https://www.indy100.com/showbiz/jimmy-carr-anti-vaxxer-netflix-b1969829

 

 

[Livid]

I honestly don’t mind showing my covid passport at the game but I’ve just realised the number of Tigers games I’ve been to this season and not been asked once. 
 

Why is it just football? 

[Guest Col city fan]

7 hours ago, adam said:

That's the problem now though int it. If someone has a different opinion they are classed as deluded and selfish. 

 

The reason you can't get a bed wouldn't be down to the unvaccinated. It's down to the badly managed NHS. 

How do you know? Do you work in one?

[Guest Col city fan]

1 hour ago, Facecloth said:

This has been explained before though hasn't it?

 

If you have 1000 people and 900 are vaccinated and 100 aren't. If 90 of the unvaccinated are in hospital, and 180 of the vaccinated are, whist the number of vaccinated people is higher and the percentage of the total group is higher, the percentage of the vaccinated people is much lower.

 

In the example above out of the 1000, 9% of the total population hospitalised are from the unvaccinated, whilst 18% are from the vaccinated, which doesn't look good for being vaccinated. But in reality of the 100 unvaccinated people  90% are in hospital, whilst of the 900 vaccinated, only 20% are in hospital.

Spot on

[Buce]

12 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

How do you know? Do you work in one?

 

We have one of the lowest ICU capacity per head of population in the developed world.

 

So he has a point.

[Phil Bowman]

7 hours ago, adam said:

That's the problem now though int it. If someone has a different opinion they are classed as deluded and selfish.

I see where you’re going wrong here.

 

You’re thinking that people are being classed as deluded and selfish because they have a different opinion.

Actually they’re being classed as deluded and selfish because they’re deluded and selfish. Their different opinion is merely a manifestation of their deluded selfishness.

[HighPeakFox]

Both points can be true at the same time, of course. But anyone thinking the unvaccinated aren't causing an even greater problem  by taking up capacity is just being proudly, wilfully ignorant.

[SpacedX]

8 hours ago, adam said:

That's the problem now though int it. If someone has a different opinion they are classed as deluded and selfish. 

 

**** me - and there it is again. 

[Stivo]

9 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

 

Cautious good news from the first South Africa data re: mild symptoms but it appears if the transmission continues at its rate, the sheer numbers of vases may cause the stress. 

here is a detailed profile of patients in one hospital in SA that somewhat backs up what you are saying.  However it is just for the first 2 weeks of omicron so it could yet turn out to be a false hope…

 

https://www.samrc.ac.za/news/tshwane-district-omicron-variant-patient-profile-early-features

 

 

[SpacedX]

11 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

We have one of the lowest ICU capacity per head of population in the developed world.

 

So he has a point.

All the more reason not to inflict additional unnecessary pressure on such a strained system: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/21/icu-is-full-of-the-unvaccinated-my-patience-with-them-is-wearing-thin

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/23/covid-patients-in-icu-now-almost-all-unvaccinated-says-oxford-scientist

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/23/unvaccinated-people-boosters-covid-jab

[Bellend Sebastian]

Funnily enough "deluded" and "selfish" were some of the words bandied around when I presented my opinion to the Royal Society that my Ford Mondeo would run equally well on apricot jam as refined petroleum spirit.

 

They also used some far more choice words, but given how angry they were I was grateful that they took the time to explain how, in the face of empirical evidence in the form of datasets, research by appropriately qualified experts etc etc, my opinion, based on pretty much f***all beyond apricot jam technically being a source of energy that has been known to get me going of a morning, was of effectively no value in this context.

 

That they turned out to be right is neither here nor there

 

 

[Charl91]

11 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

Funnily enough "deluded" and "selfish" were some of the words bandied around when I presented my opinion to the Royal Society that my Ford Mondeo would run equally well on apricot jam as refined petroleum spirit.

 

They also used some far more choice words, but given how angry they were I was grateful that they took the time to explain how, in the face of empirical evidence in the form of datasets, research by appropriately qualified experts etc etc, my opinion, based on pretty much f***all beyond apricot jam technically being a source of energy that has been known to get me going of a morning, was of effectively no value in this context.

 

That they turned out to be right is neither here nor there

 

 

 

Idiots. If they're so sure that we can't run cars on Apricot preserves, then how do they explain Traffic Jams? 

 

Checkmate, experts.

[st albans fox]

2 hours ago, Facecloth said:

This has been explained before though hasn't it?

 

If you have 1000 people and 900 are vaccinated and 100 aren't. If 90 of the unvaccinated are in hospital, and 180 of the vaccinated are, whist the number of vaccinated people is higher and the percentage of the total group is higher, the percentage of the vaccinated people is much lower.

 

In the example above out of the 1000, 9% of the total population hospitalised are from the unvaccinated, whilst 18% are from the vaccinated, which doesn't look good for being vaccinated. But in reality of the 100 unvaccinated people  90% are in hospital, whilst of the 900 vaccinated, only 20% are in hospital.

sadly you lost the majority who need to understand this when you introduced a number …..
 

 

38 minutes ago, Stivo said:

here is a detailed profile of patients in one hospital in SA that somewhat backs up what you are saying.  However it is just for the first 2 weeks of omicron so it could yet turn out to be a false hope…

 

https://www.samrc.ac.za/news/tshwane-district-omicron-variant-patient-profile-early-features

 

 

It is too early to draw conclusions and proper studies (done as quickly as is feasible) need to be done to ensure we are comparing apples and apples ……