Coronavirus Thread

[Buce]

47 minutes ago, Line-X said:

All the more reason not to inflict additional unnecessary pressure on such a strained system: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/21/icu-is-full-of-the-unvaccinated-my-patience-with-them-is-wearing-thin

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/23/covid-patients-in-icu-now-almost-all-unvaccinated-says-oxford-scientist

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/23/unvaccinated-people-boosters-covid-jab

 

Of course, and you're preaching to the converted.

 

But to disregard the lack of ICU capacity, and lack of trained ICU nurses and doctors as a contributory factor to the possibility that the system will be overwhelmed is disingenuous.

Edited 5 December 2021 by Buce

[yorkie1999]

3 hours ago, Facecloth said:

This has been explained before though hasn't it?

 

If you have 1000 people and 900 are vaccinated and 100 aren't. If 90 of the unvaccinated are in hospital, and 180 of the vaccinated are, whist the number of vaccinated people is higher and the percentage of the total group is higher, the percentage of the vaccinated people is much lower.

 

In the example above out of the 1000, 9% of the total population hospitalised are from the unvaccinated, whilst 18% are from the vaccinated, which doesn't look good for being vaccinated. But in reality of the 100 unvaccinated people  90% are in hospital, whilst of the 900 vaccinated, only 20% are in hospital.

Me no understand, how do you work out that only 20% of the 900 vaccinated are in hospital when the whole thing is about how many are actually in hospital. Surely you don’t include the people that are not in hospital as being in hospital.

[reynard]

2 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Of course, and you're preaching to the converted.

 

But to disregard the lack of ICU capacity, lack of trained ICU nurses and doctors as a contributory factor to the possibility that the system will be overwhelmed is disingenuous.

You're completely correct.  Basically we have the perfect storm right now. A, to a certain degree, under-staffed and under skilled workforce (and I don't mean those currently working as, for eg, ICU nurses, don't have the skills, just there aren't enough of them, set against the worst global pandemic for 100 years. The fact is they are not being helped by people choosing, for whatever reason, not to be vaccinated.

Front page of the Sunday Times today states;

90% of those covid patients requiring specialist ITU intervention and treatment are unvaccinated.

20-30% of ICU beds currently taken up by covid patients of which 75% are unvaccinated.

 

Sorry I can't verify their sources but I'm guessing they would at least be fairly reliable. I think they cover NHS England only.

So whilst being vaccinated doesn't 100% guarantee your chances of not becoming seriously ill ( and this has never been the case nor has it ever been suggested it would) it sure  is looking like it really really helps as well as taking pressure off the NHS so they can try to catch up with treating patients who need clinical help.

 

[CosbehFox]

Sunday Times speculates that there is a meeting arranged for 18th December when the PM and govt will decide if Christmas can occur without restriction. 
 

Fcuk me that’s depressing 

[Corky]

10 hours ago, adam said:

Or you could lock yourself away if your worried. 

You don't no why people won't have the vaccine. It should be a personal choice. Especially if your 23.

 

So if nobody took the vaccine, where do you think we'd be at present?

 

People aren't taking it for fun, by the way.

[Buce]

2 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Sunday Times speculates that there is a meeting arranged for 18th December when the PM and govt will decide if Christmas can occur without restriction. 
 

Fcuk me that’s depressing 

 

I think it's highly likely we'll be in some form of lockdown by Xmas.

 

Not for the first time, the Govt's response is disjointed and reactive; as I've said previously, introducing a mask mandate for supermarkets and shops is pointless if not introduced in settings where contagion is more likely. We have the ridiculous situation where one has to wear a mask to visit an off-licence but can then take one's booze to a party with no restrictions.

[Corky]

20 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Sunday Times speculates that there is a meeting arranged for 18th December when the PM and govt will decide if Christmas can occur without restriction. 
 

Fcuk me that’s depressing 

Will the rules apply to them as well this year?

[MPH]

1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

We have one of the lowest ICU capacity per head of population in the developed world.

 

So he has a point.

 

he only has a point if the issue he was talking about was limited to Just the NHS. Let’s take hospitals in the USA, for example… probably more money gets poured into healthcare here than anywhere else. And, we’ll, see my above response

[I am Rod Hull]

16 hours ago, Line-X said:

@I am Rod Hull Take note.

You poor mouldy fool, both my arms are real. It`s also scientific fact that 5 helpings of green flavour jelly a day is the best defence against Coofid.

 

Facts.

[Charl91]

27 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Me no understand, how do you work out that only 20% of the 900 vaccinated are in hospital when the whole thing is about how many are actually in hospital. Surely you don’t include the people that are not in hospital as being in hospital.

 

All he's saying is that it's much more likely for vaccinated people to be in hospital, as nearly everyone is vaccinated.

 

If (roughly) 95% of the population are vaccinated, and 5% are unvaccinated, then hospitals should also show a split of 95% (vaccinated) / 5% (unvaccinated).

 

So lets say the split in hospital admissions actually show  66% (vaccinated) and 33% (unvaccinated).

 

If you're an idiot, you will think "ha, more vaccinated people are in hospital".

 

 If you're not an idiot, you will think "only 5% of the population are unvaccinated, but 33% third of hospital admissions are unvaccinated? Shit, I better get my vaccine".

 

Otherwise, it'd be like saying "most people in hospitals are non-smokers" and coming to the conclusion that smoking must be healthy, rather than the fact that it's just because most people don't smoke.

Edited 5 December 2021 by Charl91

[Buce]

3 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

he only has a point if the issue he was talking about was limited to Just the NHS. Let’s take hospitals in the USA, for example… probably more money gets poured into healthcare here than anywhere else. And, we’ll, see my above response

 

And the situation (in the US) would clearly have been worse without that funding, just as the NHS would be less likely to be overwhelmed if it had more ICU capacity/staff.

 

It's basic mathematics.

[Robo61]

11 hours ago, adam said:

This is the problem now. People like you think you have the right to dictate to others what they put into their body. If you have had your jabs don't worry about others. We should not be forcing people to have vaccinations. 

Where did I say I was in favour of forced vaccinations.  My view is simply that if you choose not to have a vaccine then you lose the right to socialise like the rest of us.  Unless we are going for anarchy freedom brings responsibilities. 

[Md9]

45 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Sunday Times speculates that there is a meeting arranged for 18th December when the PM and govt will decide if Christmas can occur without restriction. 
 

Fcuk me that’s depressing 

Perfectly timed for when the schools are shut for Xmas so they don’t need the option of closing them for longer than needed I imagine 

[st albans fox]

42 minutes ago, Corky said:

So if nobody took the vaccine, where do you think we'd be at present?

 

People aren't taking it for fun, by the way.

This does intrigue me - does anyone who doesn’t want to take the vaccine ever thank the vast majority who have so that they can live their ‘normal’ life.  If we had the same view as them, the country would be locked down and they wouldn’t be doing most of the stuff they want to. 
 

1 minute ago, Md9 said:

Perfectly timed for when the schools are shut for Xmas so they don’t need the option of closing them for longer than needed I imagine 

it’s 3 weeks since the onset of the new restrictions and they said they would review after three weeks ……. Am I missing something? 
 

and @yorkie1999, please tell me that you now understand how the majority in hospital are vaccinated …….

[MPH]

30 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

And the situation (in the US) would clearly have been worse without that funding, just as the NHS would be less likely to be overwhelmed if it had more ICU capacity/staff.

 

It's basic mathematics.

But that wasn’t his point. His point was that it’s not the unvaccinated as the reason there wasn’t a hospital bed  but a poorly run NHS and I’m explaining that even the best funded hospital system probably in the world was full to the max. Literally the max. And we weren’t poorly funded at all. If we are both having the same issue and a common cause has been identified than it’s a closed case. Simple.

[CosbehFox]

26 minutes ago, Md9 said:

Perfectly timed for when the schools are shut for Xmas so they don’t need the option of closing them for longer than needed I imagine 

I believe the date is set because it’s three weeks from the travel restrictions being in place. 
 

Personally I think we’d need a terrible rise in hospitalisations or some pretty damning information about Omicron but I ain’t no expert 

[adam]

2 hours ago, Col city fan said:

How do you know? Do you work in one?

You don't need to work there to realise it doesn't work as well as it should. You just need to use its services. It's a shambles. 

[Md9]

23 minutes ago, st albans fox said:
 

2 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

I believe the date is set because it’s three weeks from the travel restrictions being in place. 
 

Personally I think we’d need a terrible rise in hospitalisations or some pretty damning information about Omicron but I ain’t no expert 

 

it’s 3 weeks since the onset of the new restrictions and they said they would review after three weeks ……. Am I missing something? 
 

Sorry 😬 I wasn’t paying much attention to the three week thing just thought they may have been thinking it due to schools being closed 🙈

[Buce]

12 minutes ago, MPH said:

But that wasn’t his point. His point was that it’s not the unvaccinated as the reason there wasn’t a hospital bed  but a poorly run NHS and I’m explaining that even the best funded hospital system probably in the world was full to the max. Literally the max. And we weren’t poorly funded at all. If we are both having the same issue and a common cause has been identified than it’s a closed case. Simple.

 

Comparing the US and the UK is apples and oranges; you had a rate of infection far and above almost anywhere in the world, for reasons that are well documented.

 

I'm not defending his anti-vax position, but that an under-staffed, under-prepared NHS is a contributary factor is a self-evident truth.

[adam]

3 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Comparing the US and the UK is apples and oranges; you had a rate of infection far and above almost anywhere in the world, for reasons that are well documented.

 

I'm not defending his anti-vax position, but that an under-staffed, under-prepared NHS is a contributary factor is a self-evident truth.

Hey I'm not anti vax.Just that it should be personal choice. 

[LCFCCHRIS]

I think most people are willing to accept the risk of having Christmas with family. Might be useful to do lateral flow on the morning IF you have vulnerable family though. Doesn't hurt to do one. 

[Raj]

Back to work to.orrow since testing positive on 17th November  and having an absolutely  nightmare 2 weeks with it, resulting in missing the last 3 home games!!!

I normally cycle to work and run 2 times a walk, currently I can just about manage a 30 minute slow walk so driving to work for the foreseeable future. 

It's a bloody sh1tter is covid.

[Carl the Llama]

16 hours ago, Harrydc said:

As a *relatively* healthy 23 year old, I should be able to asses the risk of both covid and the vaccination and make that choice for myself. 

How are you assessing those risks if you don't mind me asking?  Can you write out your process, the data you've looked at, and summarise your conclusions for us?  I imagine it would be helpful to everyone else wondering about the different dangers.

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

This does intrigue me - does anyone who doesn’t want to take the vaccine ever thank the vast majority who have so that they can live their ‘normal’ life.  If we had the same view as them, the country would be locked down and they wouldn’t be doing most of the stuff they want to. 
 

it’s 3 weeks since the onset of the new restrictions and they said they would review after three weeks ……. Am I missing something? 
 

and @yorkie1999, please tell me that you now understand how the majority in hospital are vaccinated …….

Yes but I think a far simpler way to explain it is that if everyone in the country were vaccinated, then everyone in hospital would be vaccinated people.

[yorkie1999]

How the fvck can 2 hippos in a Belgium zoo catch covid especially when none of the staff have tested positive. Who goes within 2 metres of a hippo?