Coronavirus Thread

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

If this is with us for a long time, here’s  an idea, instead of wasting billions on stupid things like track and trace apps, how about building half a dozen hospitals and paying wages that make nursing a very attractive job. If the problem/excuse is the nhs being overwhelmed, well how about making the nhs more than capable in dealing with it being overwhelmed.

What an excellent answer. Unfortunately, that doesn't make the right fat cats lots of money and keeps all those poor, thick and left wing people alive, and we can't have that.

[pleatout]

6 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

You could say the same about smokers, fat people and many other people that could supposedly do something about their future health. Somewhere along the way some common sense will need to prevail.

You have heard of the smoking ban in public places and tax on sugary drinks havent you.

[Ric Flair]

2 hours ago, pleatout said:

You have heard of the smoking ban in public places and tax on sugary drinks havent you.

Yes I have

[CosbehFox]

5 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

If this is with us for a long time, here’s  an idea, instead of wasting billions on stupid things like track and trace apps, how about building half a dozen hospitals and paying wages that make nursing a very attractive job. If the problem/excuse is the nhs being overwhelmed, well how about making the nhs more than capable in dealing with it being overwhelmed.

They are just about to sell off the vaccine centre to a private party. Be paying some rent on that for the next ten years as they need the cold hard cash. 

[CosbehFox]

I will say I’m nearly twenty four hours from being released back into the wild, the symptoms have been fine but the tiredness in the last two to three days is a mystery and affecting 

[grobyfox1990]

5 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

If this is with us for a long time, here’s  an idea, instead of wasting billions on stupid things like track and trace apps, how about building half a dozen hospitals and paying wages that make nursing a very attractive job. If the problem/excuse is the nhs being overwhelmed, well how about making the nhs more than capable in dealing with it being overwhelmed.

Hmmm yes that idea has a lot of logic. But I can’t see how mp’s and Tory donors/mates/mistresses make a ton of cash out of it. Therefore veto 

[Farrington fox]

I'm just sick of the whole sodding mess. All the talk now in the media is of post Christmas lockdown. I despair. Isn't this just kicking the can further down the road in a misguided attempt to prevent the good ole NHS from being overwhelmed.

 

This sort of action will simply compound matters in the medium term, it is short sightedness. Many more people are seriously ill and dying from many more conditions other than covid. And @Ric Flair talked about peoples mental health, the thought of another full blown lockdown, where you not able to do basic things like getting an haircut or going to a restaurant for a meal, and heaven forbid having family round indoors. It's insane. Well anyway, to prolong my own mental health I won't be complying with locking down. The word alone makes my pi$$ boil. So enough is enough.

[Ric Flair]

If we lockdown this winter then they'll lock us down every winter until people say enough is enough. 

[leicsmac]

25 minutes ago, Farrington fox said:

I'm just sick of the whole sodding mess. All the talk now in the media is of post Christmas lockdown. I despair. Isn't this just kicking the can further down the road in a misguided attempt to prevent the good ole NHS from being overwhelmed.

 

This sort of action will simply compound matters in the medium term, it is short sightedness. Many more people are seriously ill and dying from many more conditions other than covid. And @Ric Flair talked about peoples mental health, the thought of another full blown lockdown, where you not able to do basic things like getting an haircut or going to a restaurant for a meal, and heaven forbid having family round indoors. It's insane. Well anyway, to prolong my own mental health I won't be complying with locking down. The word alone makes my pi$$ boil. So enough is enough.

Yes.

 

And Covid patients are preventing them from getting the help they need.

 

So what exactly should be done? We can't wish for this thing to go away - it's a virus, either we neutralise it or it just keeps doing what it's doing.

[danny.]

11 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Yes.

 

And Covid patients are preventing them from getting the help they need.

 

So what exactly should be done? We can't wish for this thing to go away - it's a virus, either we neutralise it or it just keeps doing what it's doing.

Genuine question if anyone knows. It’s stated constantly the NHS will be/is overwhelmed. It’s well known other treatments are not being carried out due to covid patients taking up beds. 
 

Why did we build nightingale hospitals to massively increase capacity - and then not use them and shut them back down? It was obviously when they were shut the pandemic wasn’t over. 

 

If it was a lack of staff to run then, why were they built in the first place? They weren’t cheap. 

[adam]

Can we even afford to lockdown after Xmas? That's more furlough and more businesses down the pan. We can't keep locking down. It's madness. 

[yorkie1999]

12 minutes ago, danny. said:

Genuine question if anyone knows. It’s stated constantly the NHS will be/is overwhelmed. It’s well known other treatments are not being carried out due to covid patients taking up beds. 
 

Why did we build nightingale hospitals to massively increase capacity - and then not use them and shut them back down? It was obviously when they were shut the pandemic wasn’t over. 

 

If it was a lack of staff to run then, why were they built in the first place? They weren’t cheap. 

Maybe they weren't really built properly and it was all done for the cameras, bit like a movie set. Maybe we're all just being duped like in the film Capricorn one. Tell a lie big enough and it's no longer a lie.

[leicsmac]

19 minutes ago, danny. said:

Genuine question if anyone knows. It’s stated constantly the NHS will be/is overwhelmed. It’s well known other treatments are not being carried out due to covid patients taking up beds. 
 

Why did we build nightingale hospitals to massively increase capacity - and then not use them and shut them back down? It was obviously when they were shut the pandemic wasn’t over. 

 

If it was a lack of staff to run then, why were they built in the first place? They weren’t cheap. 

It's a good question.

 

My own personal theory, though not backed with evidence, is that the Government pushed through those hospitals as a panic measure and to be seen to be doing something, without considering how difficult and time consuming it sounds be to train ICU staff, or staff at least capable of monitoring and treating Covid patients.

 

I also think that it is true that through a combination of political (Tory) financial mismanagement and this pandemic, that the NHS is extremely strained and that only two things will change that - massive reinvestment in training more staff and more facilities, or the end of this pandemic, or both.

 

One or both has to happen but from what I'm seeing those on here who aren't in favour of additional government measures seem to recommend or have a plan for neither, which I don't really get if "normal life" for everyone is their overall objective. This thing isn't going to simply waltz away because we want it to. 

 

Edit: actually, if we're very, very lucky, it will mutate and become much less harmful in short order. But that's if we're very, very lucky.

Edited 6 December 2021 by leicsmac

[Farrington fox]

39 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Yes.

 

And Covid patients are preventing them from getting the help they need.

 

So what exactly should be done? We can't wish for this thing to go away - it's a virus, either we neutralise it or it just keeps doing what it's doing.

I don't know. But never ending government enforced lockdowns aren't the answer imo. They simply delay.

[Soup]

19 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Maybe they weren't really built properly and it was all done for the cameras, bit like a movie set. Maybe we're all just being duped like in the film Capricorn one. Tell a lie big enough and it's no longer a lie.

 

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, Farrington fox said:

I don't know. But never ending government enforced lockdowns aren't the answer imo. They simply delay.

I think that delay until the virus mutates into the aforementioned less harmful form is about the best strategy we have right now, as well as vaccination to at least ease the burden on health services. I honestly don't see what alternatives that don't result in the virus running utterly amok exist.

 

But yes, the measures used to enact this delay need to be executed in a way that causes minimal suffering, which isn't easy, but is necessary to simply prevent people from becoming "war-weary" of the whole thing. (That's another advantage the thing has over us, too: not getting weary of evolutionary struggle).

[pleatout]

1 hour ago, Farrington fox said:

I'm just sick of the whole sodding mess. All the talk now in the media is of post Christmas lockdown. I despair. Isn't this just kicking the can further down the road in a misguided attempt to prevent the good ole NHS from being overwhelmed.

 

This sort of action will simply compound matters in the medium term, it is short sightedness. Many more people are seriously ill and dying from many more conditions other than covid. And @Ric Flair talked about peoples mental health, the thought of another full blown lockdown, where you not able to do basic things like getting an haircut or going to a restaurant for a meal, and heaven forbid having family round indoors. It's insane. Well anyway, to prolong my own mental health I won't be complying with locking down. The word alone makes my pi$$ boil. So enough is enough.

I'm not sure anyone is talking about a post xmas lockdown in the UK.  A quick google of the news feeds didnt result in anything of significance.  

 

In fact quite the reverse, at least one expert indicates that xmas may provide a mini fire-break.

 

 

Asked if the UK was closer to the start of the pandemic than the end, Prof Paul Hunter tells BBC Breakfast he "wouldn't necessarily agree totally with that".

"I think this virus is around [and] going to be around forever," he says.

"The last time we had a big coronavirus outbreak we think was 130 years ago and that virus is still circulating, we get infected with it fairly regularly, every three to six years, and it basically just causes the common cold.  That is likely the way that this pandemic is going, so we will be repeatedly infected with Covid, we will be repeatedly infected with new variants but by and large, they'll just be another cause of the common cold."

When asked about Christmas, he says there are actually fewer interactions between people over the festive break than during the working week, so he does not think family gatherings are "under threat".

And on stopping future variants, Hunter says we must make sure every vulnerable person around the world is vaccinated, but this “hasn’t happened to any great degree”.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-59545557?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=61adc517531c2c47333600ec%26This coronavirus will be around forever%2C says diseases expert%262021-12-06T08%3A33%3A00.056Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:5304d250-a7c7-4818-a488-f70c264ff0bb&pinned_post_asset_id=61adc517531c2c47333600ec&pinned_post_type=share

 

[CosbehFox]

15 minutes ago, Farrington fox said:

I don't know. But never ending government enforced lockdowns aren't the answer imo. They simply delay.

I think we take our eye off what the intentions are of the government; it's less about delay and it's about protecting the hospitalisation rate. SAGE et al are quite aware it's not going away. 

Edited 6 December 2021 by Cardiff_Fox

[CosbehFox]

Just now, pleatout said:

I'm not sure anyone is talking about a post xmas lockdown in the UK.  A quick google of the news feeds didnt result in anything of significance.  

 

In fact quite the reverse, at least one expert indicates that xmas may provide a mini fire-break.

 

 

Asked if the UK was closer to the start of the pandemic than the end, Prof Paul Hunter tells BBC Breakfast he "wouldn't necessarily agree totally with that".

"I think this virus is around [and] going to be around forever," he says.

"The last time we had a big coronavirus outbreak we think was 130 years ago and that virus is still circulating, we get infected with it fairly regularly, every three to six years, and it basically just causes the common cold.  That is likely the way that this pandemic is going, so we will be repeatedly infected with Covid, we will be repeatedly infected with new variants but by and large, they'll just be another cause of the common cold."

When asked about Christmas, he says there are actually fewer interactions between people over the festive break than during the working week, so he does not think family gatherings are "under threat".

And on stopping future variants, Hunter says we must make sure every vulnerable person around the world is vaccinated, but this “hasn’t happened to any great degree”.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-59545557?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=61adc517531c2c47333600ec%26This coronavirus will be around forever%2C says diseases expert%262021-12-06T08%3A33%3A00.056Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:5304d250-a7c7-4818-a488-f70c264ff0bb&pinned_post_asset_id=61adc517531c2c47333600ec&pinned_post_type=share

 

 

He'd be correct. We make natural bubbles at Christmas. The socialising generally stops around 20th. The pubs have select opening hours. We generally eat at home. There's the odd sporting event but public transport is reduced, so the travelling is less interactive. Sports teams stop their weekly training. 

[pleatout]

44 minutes ago, danny. said:

Genuine question if anyone knows. It’s stated constantly the NHS will be/is overwhelmed. It’s well known other treatments are not being carried out due to covid patients taking up beds. 
 

Why did we build nightingale hospitals to massively increase capacity - and then not use them and shut them back down? It was obviously when they were shut the pandemic wasn’t over. 

 

If it was a lack of staff to run then, why were they built in the first place? They weren’t cheap. 

Staff - pure and simple.  They were a Boris vanity project.  Total waste of time and effort.  Locally we readied and opened a number of old wards that had been mothballed or coverted to other uses.  But the big factor is and was staff.  To staff a ward 24 hours 7 days a week you need 4/5 physical people for every Nurse on the ward.  And there arent that number of qualified staff sitting about with nothing to do.

 

The NHS runs on a simple model.  But to vastly over simplify it further...

 

All year -"back ground noise" of emergencies & stuff that cant wait - cancer treatment etc

Summer - add in electives - non life threatening but needs doing

Winter - Flu, pneumonia, old&cold, other "winter related" health stuff

 

Last year (and this) add in a brand new one - Covid - and we struggle

[Alf Bentley]

14 minutes ago, pleatout said:

Staff - pure and simple.  They were a Boris vanity project.  Total waste of time and effort.  Locally we readied and opened a number of old wards that had been mothballed or coverted to other uses.  But the big factor is and was staff.  To staff a ward 24 hours 7 days a week you need 4/5 physical people for every Nurse on the ward.  And there arent that number of qualified staff sitting about with nothing to do.

 

The NHS runs on a simple model.  But to vastly over simplify it further...

 

All year -"back ground noise" of emergencies & stuff that cant wait - cancer treatment etc

Summer - add in electives - non life threatening but needs doing

Winter - Flu, pneumonia, old&cold, other "winter related" health stuff

 

Last year (and this) add in a brand new one - Covid - and we struggle

 

I seem to remember @z-layrex (ICU nurse) giving a similar explanation for the non-use of most Nightingale hospital facilities.

[danny.]

Thanks guys. That’s horrendous that all that money was wasted for nothing. 

[leicsmac]

8 minutes ago, danny. said:

Thanks guys. That’s horrendous that all that money was wasted for nothing. 

As I said before, I think it came down to panic more than anything else, really - fear of the virus and fear for their own political careers if they were to be seen not doing "enough".

[danny.]

5 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

As I said before, I think it came down to panic more than anything else, really - fear of the virus and fear for their own political careers if they were to be seen not doing "enough".

I’d have thought before spending half a billion someone would have done a quick feasibility check to make sure if they built more beds and units there would be people available to run them!

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

If we lockdown this winter then they'll lock us down every winter until people say enough is enough. 

Cant see a lockdown BUT if things seem to be getting out of hand, how many people would object to WFH and non ess shops, hospitality etc being closed for two weeks mid jan as a firebreak???  i think it would think omicron would have to be ripping through the country for them to consider this at all.

 

1 hour ago, adam said:

Can we even afford to lockdown after Xmas? That's more furlough and more businesses down the pan. We can't keep locking down. It's madness. 

we cant but then again, say that omicron affects the U12 badly - we wouldn't have a choice. 

 

14 minutes ago, danny. said:

Thanks guys. That’s horrendous that all that money was wasted for nothing. 

nah - not wasted .......i'm sure plenty of tory donors did well out of them ...........