Coronavirus Thread

[SexyGammonFox]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Yeah, and if this new strain is as concerning as is being made out to be then being double jabbed won't mean a lot as what's the point in a passport. 

 

 

I don't get the point of vaccine passports at football matches at all. Waving through 90% of people because they have an app on their phone even though a percentage of them will have covid anyway, potentially passing it on to the 10% who aren't vaccinated.

 

I don't understand who it protects and what it achieves.

[pazzerfox]

5 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Oh look, it's the 1 in 3 have no symptoms advert on the TV.  Again.

 

There's no getting away from it. 

Hit the mute button or turn the TV off.

[SexyGammonFox]

7 minutes ago, Farrington fox said:

 

Dan talking rubbish, it's clearly Boris they are annoyed with. His credibility is what has changed here.

[GingerrrFox]

Sounds like COVID passes and mandatory vaccination is a step too far for most Conservative MPs. If Boris loses the vote next week on this he is finished but the question is will Labour vote against to get rid of him or will they vote in favour of “Plan B”? 

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

Sounds like COVID passes and mandatory vaccination is a step too far for most Conservative MPs. If Boris loses the vote next week on this he is finished but the question is will Labour vote against to get rid of him or will they vote in favour of “Plan B”? 

Mandatory vaccination? 

[GingerrrFox]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

Mandatory vaccination? 

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1468651786756149251?s=21

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, GingerrrFox said:

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1468651786756149251?s=21

I think he knows that many of his back benchers won’t support that. 

 

it wouldn’t be a conversation boris would want to have unless omicron proves to be reasonably virulent with vaccine escape away from boosters (as much as alpha I would think). 

but if the data showed that boosted and recently double jabbed were protected amidst a virus spreading with an R>2 and vaccine efficacy around 90%, then I’m afraid it would be a conversation that had to happen as much as many don’t want to have it. 

 

[Izzy]

Noddy question here - apologies.

 

I keep reading about this COVID 'pass' that you need so I downloaded the NHS app and did all the ID checks etc.

 

On the app it now shows the dates and types of vaccines I had for the first two and the booster.

 

Is that it? Is that my 'pass' or am I missing something? 

[SexyGammonFox]

3 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Noddy question here - apologies.

 

I keep reading about this COVID 'pass' that you need so I downloaded the NHS app and did all the ID checks etc.

 

On the app it now shows the dates and types of vaccines I had for the first two and the booster.

 

Is that it? Is that my 'pass' or am I missing something? 

On the home page you need to select 'get covid pass' the app is struggling tonight though for obvious reasons so probably best to try again in the morning.

[Otis]

8 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Noddy question here - apologies.

 

I keep reading about this COVID 'pass' that you need so I downloaded the NHS app and did all the ID checks etc.

 

On the app it now shows the dates and types of vaccines I had for the first two and the booster.

 

Is that it? Is that my 'pass' or am I missing something? 

You should have a Domestic pass and a travel  pass on the app. Each one will load up a QR code for you to show.

[Izzy]

4 minutes ago, SexyGammonFox said:

On the home page you need to select 'get covid pass' the app is struggling tonight though for obvious reasons so probably best to try again in the morning.

 

Just now, Otis said:

You should have a Domestic pass and a travel  pass on the app. Each one will load up a QR code for you to show.

Thanks both. I selected domestic pass but nothing happened and all I can see currently is the dates/types of vaccinations I've had.

 

I assumed I needed something like a QR code but I guess the system must have crashed.

[SexyGammonFox]

Just now, Izzy said:

 

Thanks both. I selected domestic pass but nothing happened and all I can see currently is the dates/types of vaccinations I've had.

 

I assumed I needed something like a QR code but I guess the system must have crashed.

Yes, it has, my wife tried for the first time earlier and got an error.

[foxinsocks]

Does it all make sense? 

Many of my vacvinated friends have had delta.  Yet the gov is panicking coz omicron evades the vaccines.... but we already have delta?  So why the panicking?

Further, it looks like there is a reasonable chance that omicron is less severe than delta...  at the moment ,  omicron is just 1% of the uk covid infections... but givens its transmission advantages that may become 99%.  Yet chris whitty says hospitalizations (currently 350 per day) could rise to 1000 per day. But if omicron is less srver then we would expect hospitalizations to fall.   

 

This strange analysis is bring used to justify the plan b restrictions.

 

At a minimum they risk a cry wolf situation should we encounter a subsequent varient that is both more transmittable and more severe.

 

Finally... I am wondering why double vaccinated people who may well be carrying delta or omicron  are allowed into venues without testing?

It seems none of these decisions is consistent with the others.

What am I missing.

Edited 8 December 2021 by foxinsocks

[GingerrrFox]

Just now, foxinsocks said:

Does it allbmake sense? 

Many of my vacvinated friends have had delta.  Yet the gov is panicking coz omicron evades the vaccines.... but we already have delta?  So why the panicking?

Further, it looks like there is a reasonable chance that omicron is less severe than delta...  at the moment ,  omicron is just 1% of the uk covid infections... but givens its transmission advantages that may become 99%.  Yet chris whitty says hospitalizations (currently 350 per day) could rise to 1000 per day. But if omicron is less srver then we would expect hospitalizations to fall.   

 

This strange analysis is bring used to justify the plan b restrictions.

 

At a minimum they risk a cry wolf situation should we encounter a subsequent varient that is both more transmittable and more severe.

 

Finally... I am wondering why double vaccinated people who may well be carrying delta or omicron  are allowed into venues without testing?

It seems none of these decisions is constant with the others.

What am I missing.

There is no logical explanation why vaccinated people can go anywhere without providing a negative test because they can still carry the virus. That is why “COVID passports” make no sense. I’d be far more comfortable knowing everyone in the King Power stadium had a negative test  as I’ve seen reports that Omicron has been spread in the community by vaccinated people. 

[Ric Flair]

Chaos in my gaff tonight. Our son has been ill with what we thought was chicken pox since Friday. Half his class have supposedly had it over the last 3-4 weeks. Covered in spots but not itching as much as I'd expect and he's a huge picker at the best of times so it was a little strange.

 

Anyway, my wife's mum and dad are retired pharmacists and they said it could instead be covid. All did tests yesterday and negative. Wife's taste and smell vanished today so she did another test tonight as is positive. Me and my son are negative still but maybe he's already had it if it was covid rather than chicken pox and now won't show up as positive anyway.

 

Our 14 month old told me to fcuk off when I got the swab out to test her.

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

.

Our 14 month old told me to fcuk off when I got the swab out to test her.

This didn’t surprise me! 

 

good luck ……

[foxinsocks]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

Chaos in my gaff tonight. Our son has been ill with what we thought was chicken pox since Friday. Half his class have supposedly had it over the last 3-4 weeks. Covered in spots but not itching as much as I'd expect and he's a huge picker at the best of times so it was a little strange.

 

Anyway, my wife's mum and dad are retired pharmacists and they said it could instead be covid. All did tests yesterday and negative. Wife's taste and smell vanished today so she did another test tonight as is positive. Me and my son are negative still but maybe he's already had it if it was covid rather than chicken pox and now won't show up as positive anyway.

 

Our 14 month old told me to fcuk off when I got the swab out to test her.

Sorry ... but stay calm.  My kids had covid and were fine (a bit red in the face and tired).  They got board having to.isolate.   we got it too... take lots of vit d (4000 units per day)  as this reduces severity. 

[Guest Harrydc]

If 'omicron' evades the vaccines then what's the point of vaccine passports? 

 

If vaccines work then what's the point of vaccine passports? 

 

Absolute nonsense and another step towards the Chinese style social credit system. 

[SexyGammonFox]

22 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

If 'omicron' evades the vaccines then what's the point of vaccine passports? 

 

If vaccines work then what's the point of vaccine passports? 

 

Absolute nonsense and another step towards the Chinese style social credit system. 

I share some of your frustrations but I think we're still a little way away from having to swear allegiance to Boris before we're allowed to get on the number 31 to the train station.

[SexyGammonFox]

BBC News - NHS Covid Pass crashes after Plan B announcement
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59588562

[Leicester_Loyal]

2 hours ago, Farrington fox said:

 

They always say this bollocks yet it’ll pass any vote pretty easily. 
 

*I don’t even know if it has to be voted theough btw, I couldn’t care less*

[Ric Flair]

Hahahaa just turned the page in my Bill Bryson book to read this, he's absolutely nailed us. Sums up some of what we're witnessing this last year or two an'all....

 

 

[dsr-burnley]

3 hours ago, Line-X said:

It's your initial statement that is in contention here and can't be proved. As the one making the claim, the burden of proof would be incumbent upon you to "demonstrate" otherwise. 

 

Facemasks are a preventative measure employed against a virus which is known to be transmitted predominately by aerosols as opposed to fomites. Reducing disease spread requires two things: limiting contacts of infected individuals via physical distancing and other measures and reducing the transmission probability per contact. The consilience/preponderance of evidence indicates that mask wearing reduces transmissibility per contact by reducing transmission of infected respiratory particles in both laboratory and clinical contexts. Public mask wearing is most effective at reducing spread of the virus when compliance is high. There are studies that demonstrate this and epidemiological frameworks developed to quantify effectivity. I can refer you to these if you wish.

 

Returning to your claim that it could demonstrate that they don't prevent a rise in cases - you'll need to produce your data showing a negative relationship. You can't prove an absent. 

 

 

I still have a problem with the thing about facemasks.  There are all sorts of lab tests and surveys that say facemasks reduce transmission by huge amounts, perhaps 50% and more

 

and yet ...

 

Scottish schoolchildren have been wearing face masks since the beginning of term in August.  English schoolchildren have only just started wearing them.  And the infection rate in England and the infection rate in Scotland, up to 21st November which is when I had the full data, is all but identical.  2,430 per 100,000 in England, 2,390 per 100,000 in Scotland, in the previous 4 weeks in total.

 

I don't say that masks make no difference to case numbers.  As you say, that can't be proved either way.  But what I do wonder is that if face masks do make a big difference in reducing Scotland's numbers, what are the other factors in Scotland that would have made the cases so much higher than in England if the children hadn't been wearing masks?

[dsr-burnley]

Boris's latest measures are a farce.  They will make no difference, or negligible difference.  If omicron is going to spread as predicted and be as serious as they fear, then the only thing that would do any good is another severe lockdown.

 

But would that be a viable option?  If omicron is relatively benign compared with delta, then lockdown would cause a lot of damage for no reason.  If omicron is as bad as they fear, then lockdown (once started) must presumably continue until omicron has been largely neutralised.  A short term lockdown would be useless.  So another year of severe school disruption, another year of lonely misery for old folks, another year of lack of exercise for people who ought to be exercising, another year of doctors being closed and cancers being missed.  How bad would omicron have to be to make it worthwhile?  So far as I know there is no empirical data that says the vaccine doesn't work against omicron, and there is empirical data to say that it does.  If we can save 50,000 lives by a year's lockdown, then IMO we shouldn't do it.  On balance, it's not worth it.

 

If we accept that lockdown is appropriate for omicron, then it is also appropriate for theta, and for omega, and for variants named after letters from other alphabets too.  If we accept lockdown in principle for omicron, then we accept it for all new mutations.  

 

[leicsmac]

18 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

Boris's latest measures are a farce.  They will make no difference, or negligible difference.  If omicron is going to spread as predicted and be as serious as they fear, then the only thing that would do any good is another severe lockdown.

 

But would that be a viable option?  If omicron is relatively benign compared with delta, then lockdown would cause a lot of damage for no reason.  If omicron is as bad as they fear, then lockdown (once started) must presumably continue until omicron has been largely neutralised.  A short term lockdown would be useless.  So another year of severe school disruption, another year of lonely misery for old folks, another year of lack of exercise for people who ought to be exercising, another year of doctors being closed and cancers being missed.  How bad would omicron have to be to make it worthwhile?  So far as I know there is no empirical data that says the vaccine doesn't work against omicron, and there is empirical data to say that it does.  If we can save 50,000 lives by a year's lockdown, then IMO we shouldn't do it.  On balance, it's not worth it.

 

If we accept that lockdown is appropriate for omicron, then it is also appropriate for theta, and for omega, and for variants named after letters from other alphabets too.  If we accept lockdown in principle for omicron, then we accept it for all new mutations.  

 

Agree with this apart from the bolded. Letting the virus run amok if it does prove to be nasty will result in far more doctor closures and cancers being missed than a lockdown simply because the resources won't be available because they'll be too busy triaging Covid. That's the entire reason they were first proposed and executed.

 

NB. You never did get back to me about that survey regarding Covid and Trump supporters.

 

 

Edited 9 December 2021 by leicsmac