Coronavirus Thread

[SpacedX]

52 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

 

I'm cherry picking? 

 

Splendid. Now that you've discovered this resource you can use it for your own posts in future. 

 

We can apply it to your previous claims too. Shall we start with this time last year when you consistently posted Mike Yeadon's insistence that the UK was approaching herd immunity that you refuse to talk about now? 

[st albans fox]

5 minutes ago, Line-X said:

 

This is significant because hospital figures show that the majority of patients in critical care with coronavirus are unvaccinated.

Can you point to this data please ? 

[Legend_in_blue]

6 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Splendid. Now that you've discovered this resource you can use it for your own posts in future. 

 

We can apply it to your previous claims too. Shall we start with this time last year when you consistently posted Mike Yeadon's insistence that the UK was approaching herd immunity that you refuse to talk about now? 

Similarly, we could talk about Vallance and Whitty's insistence that the numbers would continue to increase exponentially at repeated press conferences this time last year...

Edited 10 December 2021 by Legend_in_blue

[HighPeakFox]

I'm sorry to repeat myself, but the victim mentality I see amongst a number of our fans on the main forum is reflected in this one - it is almost as though some people crave to wallow in self-pity.

[st albans fox]

8 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Similarly, we could talk about Vallance and Whitty's insistence that the numbers would continue to increase exponentially at repeated press conferences this time last year...

Presumably on the basis there wouldn’t be a lock down ……

[SpacedX]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

Can you point to this data please ? 

Anecdotally, I recall Prof. Andrew Pollard saying such and substantiating it - but I accept that he was on the team that produced the Oxford/AZ vaccine but nonetheless, the figures he produced were independently verified and the fact that had been the sustained trend throughout the year is demonstrable. 

 

This is from Barts, but is over two months old:

https://www.bartshealth.nhs.uk/news/almost-90-of-patients-admitted-to-intensive-care-units-in-north-east-london-are-not-fully-vaccinated-11544

 

In terms of current data, this is a summary of from admissions in Nottinghamshire. Apparently it also has one of the lowest rates of booster uptake in the country which I didn't know:

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/majority-patients-critical-care-nottingham-6330441

 

It's coming from Trusts and hospitals across the country, reporting the same thing:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-59405471

 

I'll find some national healthcare/NHS data. I know that I saw figures from the BMJ but I'll search for the current national rates. The BMJ are mentioned here in fact:

https://inews.co.uk/news/health/doctors-incredibly-frustrated-unvaccinated-covid-patients-delaying-nhs-operations-1336507

 

1 minute ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Similarly, we could talk about Vallance and Whitty's insistence that the numbers would continue to increase exponentially at repeated press conferences this time last year...

We have - extensively at your behest - over and over and over and over again. We've spoken about the purpose of projections and models and also predictions and estimations. 

 

However, every time that I raise Mike Yeadon's ludicrous, reckless and dangerous claims that you insisted on posting this time last year, you have declined to comment or respond with a laughing emoji. You can't have it both ways. 

[st albans fox]

7 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Anecdotally, I recall Prof. Andrew Pollard saying such and substantiating it - but I accept that he was on the team that produced the Oxford/AZ vaccine but nonetheless, the figures he produced were independently verified and the fact that had been the sustained trend throughout the year is demonstrable. 

 

This is from Barts, but is over two months old:

https://www.bartshealth.nhs.uk/news/almost-90-of-patients-admitted-to-intensive-care-units-in-north-east-london-are-not-fully-vaccinated-11544

 

In terms of current data, this is a summary of from admissions in Nottinghamshire. Apparently it also has one of the lowest rates of booster uptake in the country which I didn't know:

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/majority-patients-critical-care-nottingham-6330441

 

It's coming from Trusts and hospitals across the country, reporting the same thing:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-59405471

 

I'll find some national healthcare/NHS data. I know that I saw figures from the BMJ but I'll search for the current national rates. The BMJ are mentioned here in fact:

https://inews.co.uk/news/health/doctors-incredibly-frustrated-unvaccinated-covid-patients-delaying-nhs-operations-1336507

 

We have - extensively at your behest - over and over and over and over again. We've spoken about the purpose of projections and models and also predictions and estimations. 

 

However, every time that I raise Mike Yeadon's ludicrous, reckless and dangerous claims that you insisted on posting this time last year, you have declined to comment or respond with a laughing emoji. You can't have it both ways. 

If it’s the case that the majority of people in hospitals are jabbed but the majority in icu are not jabbed then that provides further irrefutable evidence that you need to get jabbed. Even the most argumentative wouldn’t be able to make a case.
 

I would have thought if this was the situation then the data would be publicly a available because it would encourage the uncertain to get their jabs.  

[Nalis]

I see the Guardian and the Daily Express are scaremongering in equally bad measure today. The left and right are now aligned.

[SpacedX]

9 minutes ago, Nalis said:

I see the Guardian and the Daily Express are scaremongering in equally bad measure today. The left and right are now aligned.

Actually, when you think about it, aside from criticism of the timing, Labour has consistently aligned with and backed the government's covid policies.

Edited 10 December 2021 by Line-X

[Paninistickers]

6 minutes ago, Nalis said:

I see the Guardian and the Daily Express are scaremongering in equally bad measure today. The left and right are now aligned.

....not to forget the beeb,  who this week ran the ultimate non story 'what are the rules on your company Xmas party?' (none) 

 

Plus the usual, 'nurse says unvaccinated patients beg for vaccine but it's too late' and now 'booster jab beats omicrom' ....not mentioning (of course) the fact that precisely nobody in the world has yet reported to have died of the omicrom strain. 

[yorkie1999]

1 minute ago, Line-X said:

Actually, when you think about it, aside from criticism of the timing, Labour has consistently aligned with and backed the government's covid policies.

They have to as it’s not in their interests to oppose anything to do with covid. Say they condone using masks and it’s proven that wearing masks work, the tories would say And if we’d listened to the opposition we’d have 500000 deaths, 

[yorkie1999]

8 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

....not to forget the beeb,  who this week ran the ultimate non story 'what are the rules on your company Xmas party?' (none) 

 

Plus the usual, 'nurse says unvaccinated patients beg for vaccine but it's too late' and now 'booster jab beats omicrom' ....not mentioning (of course) the fact that precisely nobody in the world has yet reported to have died of the omicrom strain. 

Is that actually true about no one has died from the omicron strain?

[SpacedX]

3 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

....not mentioning (of course) the fact that precisely nobody in the world has yet reported to have died of the omicrom strain. 

I'm actually starting to question whether half a dozen accounts on here are actually the same person. 

 

The point is, for possibly the fiftieth time, Omicron has over thirty new spike proteins, double the mutations of Delta, and all indications suggest triple the infection rate. It also significantly reduces the efficacy of existing vaccinations. We simply don't know yet what the combined effect of all this will be but it will unquestionably result in a significant wave of infections and exact huge pressure on your frontline health services and staff. It isn't about scaremongering. The current recommendations are proportional to the threat. The limited real world data that we have is largely gathered from the southern hemisphere where it is summer and a younger demographic. It is currently winter here and the time of the year in which our fragile NHS is under the most pressure. That it and its staff are near breaking point is absolutely something we all should be concerned about. 

[Paninistickers]

1 minute ago, Line-X said:

I'm actually starting to question whether half a dozen accounts on here are actually the same person. 

 

The point is, for possibly the fiftieth time, Omicron has over thirty new spike proteins, double the mutations of Delta, and all indications suggest triple the infection rate. It also significantly reduces the efficacy of existing vaccinations. We simply don't know yet what the combined effect of all this will be but it will unquestionably result in a significant wave of infections and exact huge pressure on your frontline health services and staff. It isn't about scaremongering. The current recommendations are proportional to the threat. The limited real world data that we have is largely gathered from the southern hemisphere where it is summer and a younger demographic. It is currently winter here and the time of the year in which our fragile NHS is under the most pressure. That it and its staff are near breaking point is absolutely something we all should be concerned about. 

Yeah, but how many have died?

[st albans fox]

11 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Is that actually true about no one has died from the omicron strain?

People don’t generally tend to die from covid before three weeks with current meds etc  ……it’s barely three weeks since this was highlighted….. give it another 7 days ……if we’re still not finding any omicron fatalities across the world in another week then it’s notable …..

 

thsi assumes that people aren’t dying having contracted omicron and I don’t know if this is the case …..

Edited 10 December 2021 by st albans fox

[SpacedX]

Just now, Paninistickers said:

Yeah, but how many have died?

So you completely missed every point of my post? - probably intentionally.

 

It isn't simply about mortality rates from Omicron - it's about clinical burden which has a huge knock on effect for our beleaguered healthcare system and its staff. 

 

Added to which, we simply do not know enough about the variant in the absence of real world data - we are only three weeks in. What we do have is largely gleaned from a younger demographic experiencing a wave of infections in mid summer. If the symptoms are milder than Delta as suspected, then in the long term that could be a good thing should it become endemic. In the immediate sense, yes, given the rate of infection, people will unfortunately die as a result of this particularly if the NHS is overwhelmed with referrals and the efficacy of vaccinations are compromised. 

 

Beyond this, whilst there continue to be infections worldwide, emergent variants and mutations will continue to arrive on these shores. They have the potential to be as severe as delta and as infectious as omicron. 

[Paninistickers]

1 minute ago, Line-X said:

So you completely missed every point of my post? - probably intentionally.

 

It isn't simply about mortality rates from Omicron - it's about clinical burden which has a huge knock on effect for our beleaguered healthcare system and its staff. 

 

Added to which, we simply do not know enough about the variant in the absence of real world data - we are only three weeks in. What we do have is largely gleaned from a younger demographic experiencing a wave of infections in mid summer. If the symptoms are milder than Delta as suspected, then in the long term that could be a good thing should it become endemic. In the immediate sense, yes, given the rate of infection, people will unfortunately die as a result of this particularly if the NHS is overwhelmed with referrals and the efficacy of vaccinations are compromised. 

 

Beyond this, whilst there continue to be infections worldwide, emergent variants and mutations will continue to arrive on these shores. They have the potential to be as severe as delta and as infectious as omicron. 

I think it's you who's ignoring my question! The answer is zero known cases. Nil. Null. Nada. Nichts. Zilch.....in. the. world. 

 

To answer your point though about pressure on services, frost puts pressure on the health service.  Just through interest, do you want to ban frost? 

[danny.]

3 hours ago, Line-X said:

Nonsense. 

 

The behavioural scientists are the lizards. They can shapeshift remember.

I knew you’d come around 

[kyleolly]

So across 2 Nottingham hospitals there's 14 covid patients in icu and over 3 hospitals there's 8 and the NHS is on its knees 

[st albans fox]

4 minutes ago, kyleolly said:

So across 2 Nottingham hospitals there's 14 covid patients in icu and over 3 hospitals there's 8 and the NHS is on its knees 

I’m confused

 

14 in two and 8 in three ????

 

btw, do you know how many ICU beds most hospitals actually have ?? 

[kyleolly]

Sorry 3 leicester hospitals, which I believe have 49 icu beds

[Alf Bentley]

8 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

People don’t generally tend to die from covid before three weeks with current meds etc  ……it’s barely three weeks since this was highlighted….. give it another 7 days ……if we’re still not finding any omicron fatalities across the world in another week then it’s notable …..

 

thsi assumes that people aren’t dying having contracted omicron and I don’t know if this is the case …..

 

In this context, it will be instructive to see what happens with death rates in S. Africa in the next 1-2 weeks, as the Omicron wave there seems to have started a couple of weeks before here.

 

BBC reports that Omicron is now the dominant variant in S. Africa and there has been a sharp increase in hospitalisations (no noticeable increase in deaths yet - but there's usually a lag between spikes in hospitalisation & spikes in deaths).

If death rates in S. Africa don't surge in the next fortnight, that might be relatively good news for the UK.

(Though I note Line-X's important caveat that there are different demographics, seasons & social factors in the 2 countries - and a lower vaccination rate in S. Africa - so figures won't be directly comparable).

 

But, even if Omicron does NOT cause a lot of extra deaths, the likelihood that it will cause a surge in hospitalisations is serious enough -> insufficient beds; knock-on impact for patients with other illnesses; NHS systems and staff struggling to cope etc, not to mention an increased chance of another lockdown, heavier economic impacts & mental health impacts etc.

[SpacedX]

9 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

I think it's you who's ignoring my question! The answer is zero known cases. Nil. Null. Nada. Nichts. Zilch.....in. the. world. 

 

To repeat, we are three weeks in. 

 

9 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

To answer your point though about pressure on services, frost puts pressure on the health service.  Just through interest, do you want to ban frost? 

Comical false equivalence. Yes it does - alongside a myriad of more significant factors in mid winter. This new variant has triple the infection rate of Delta, which is still the dominant strain. We need to take precautionary measures until we can access more real world data that we don't currently have.

[Robo61]

14 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

I think it's you who's ignoring my question! The answer is zero known cases. Nil. Null. Nada. Nichts. Zilch.....in. the. world. 

 

To answer your point though about pressure on services, frost puts pressure on the health service.  Just through interest, do you want to ban frost? 

Ye,  why not

[SpacedX]

2 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

But, even if Omicron does NOT cause a lot of extra deaths, the likelihood that it will cause a surge in hospitalisations is serious enough -> insufficient beds; knock-on impact for patients with other illnesses; NHS systems and staff struggling to cope etc, not to mention an increased chance of another lockdown, heavier economic impacts & mental health impacts etc.

Good luck attempting to impress this on the same few....18 months down the line.

 

We do have a new analogy in the form of frost though. "Do you want to ban frost"?

 

You think you've seen it all over the best part of two years, but this thread will never disappoint.