Coronavirus Thread

[Izzy]

51 minutes ago, Phil Bowman said:

 @Line-X I don’t know how you have the patience to explain everything so clearly and so many times - I certainly couldn’t - but god bless you for it.

 

I reckon @Line-X is really this man disguised as a Leicester fan...

 

[SpacedX]

12 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Are we sure that both variants, omicron and delta, can’t coexist? In other words, does catching omicron give protection against delta, and vice versa? If so, to what degree?  Is it possible to get both simultaneously as if they were 2 separate infections? This would be my concern, as in that case, omicron may not push out delta.

Good point raised. 

 

Consider the journey this virus has made so far. It has made the jump from infecting a completely different species - its closest relatives being bats - to us. What you find with zoonosis is that it's very rare for it to be perfect. A virus makes the jump to humans, settles in, completes its induction, and then starts to adapt and thrive. Think of someone starting a new job  - they may be competent, but not the finished article. The first variant was good enough to start a devastating pandemic, but now it's work in progress learning on the job in a results based environment. Beta was quickly ousted and handed its P.45 by the more successful, higher performing Delta. 

 

There are however evolutionary trade-offs. In order to become better at one thing you usually compromise something else. The fastest vaccination programme in history continues to give the virus a different hurdle to overcome and squeeze it in another evolutionary direction. It is quite possible that changes in the virus that make it better at avoiding vaccines could end up undermining its ability to transmit in an absolute sense. The Beta variant - which has a mutation called E484K that helped evade the immune system didn't manage to take off and is an example of this. Omicron, though purportedly less severe, (we still don't ****ing know!!!), does have mutations that both help it spread and partially dodge immunity. Therefore it can likely outcompete Delta and will almost certainly become the dominant strain. This this is both good and bad news. Life is rarely clear cut or a simple dichotomy between the two. The data is both simultaneously encouraging and threatening, because three weeks ago, we didn't even know this existed.

 

So as such, science models and predicts - with a fast evolving virus the view is opaque and nebulous, and with such mutable complex variables we are always looking in the misted rear view mirror. This is what frustrates the same few people on this thread because they are unable to comprehend the dynamic involved and that at the frontiers and vanguard of our knowledge, science learns and advances through falsification and correction. 

 

It is highly likely that Omicron will outpace the Delta variant where community transmission occurs meaning that pockets of Delta will remain, but we know our vaccines perform very well against this. It is too early to make any firm conclusions about the strain’s severity. More data are needed to understand the severity profile but the concern lies with the ease of spread due to the interconnectivity of the world we live in. Vaccination is one part of the solution and is a huge help, but we are unlikely to ever reach global herd immunity, which means there is always an opportunity for the virus to evolve - particularly given the global inequalities in healthcare that I am continually referring to in respect of vaccination. And we’re seeing this now with mutations. The endpoint of this virus is that we will just start to live with it - and we will. The  it will become endemic in the population and with that the knowledge that it will become less virulent over time, as diseases tend to. But there may be spikes, as the government rhetoric accompanying last summer's roadmap that we were at a turning point and never going back was highly damaging and irresponsible. In a way I don't blame certain people for proclaiming at the time that covid was over months ago. As I pointed out then - and it may not be what people wanted to hear - but It really wasn't

 

There are going to be more variants emerging that are more deadly, but perhaps they won't be so transmissible. Perhaps they will? We have to be prepared for the next thing to come along, potentially while we’re still dealing with this one. 

 

We will also likely need regular vaccinations and boosters to fight this. I cannot understand those angry tirades on here directed at government and science demanding when is this endless cycle going to end? The answer is governed by nature - when it rules and decrees that this continually evolving global viral disease has run its course. 

 

54 minutes ago, Phil Bowman said:

 @Line-X I don’t know how you have the patience to explain everything so clearly and so many times - I certainly couldn’t - but god bless you for it.

Thank you, but genuinely @leicsmac is the able scientific communicator on here - and with vastly more reserves of patience, tact and diplomacy than myself. 

[Legend_in_blue]

Quote

Germany has done 88m Covid tests since this all began, UK, with a population 15m smaller, has done 379m!

 

(Although I found other data which stated 339m vs 87m.)

 

Whatever.  Let that sink in. 

 

Testing in this country is on an insane level and needs scaling back.  

Edited 14 December 2021 by Legend_in_blue

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, Vacamion said:

 

If anyone in here has had the virus and can shed any light on this Parosmia issue for me, I'm all ears.

 

I'm triple vaxxed, boosted last week.

 

I've never had the Virus, or at least never had symptoms or a positive test since the Pandemic started.

 

January 2021, with no illness or symptoms, my sense of smell changed. 

 

I could smell this weird plasticky/chemical smell all the time.  It doesn't smell like anything I've experienced in my life and it's quite hard to describe.

 

I could still smell and taste other stuff, but this new thing was weird and overpowering as a smell, but not the end of the world and only slightly annoying.

 

As per the guidance at the time, I took myself off for a PCR test and it was negative.

 

A few weeks later, it faded and I thought no more of it for the rest of this year.

 

After my booster last week (Moderna, after 2x AZs), the same weird smell has come back. 

 

It has been getting stronger and stronger in recent days and I feel like I can taste the weirdness again.

 

Most of the stuff I've looked up online about COVID-related parosmia goes on about absence of smell, or a smell of rotting or a faecal smell.  

 

Thats not it for me. Its a chemical smell which I struggle to describe.

 

TBH, online info isn't shedding much light on it.

 

I'm only slightly annoyed by it and it's no major hardship. I'm not off my food, I'm just curious.

 

Seems a bit too much of a coincidence with me getting boosted last week.

 

I've been doing negative LFTs every couple of days and I have no other symptoms.

 

Have any of the rest of you had a change of your sense of smell without a positive COVID test?

 

If so, was it a weird chemical smell & taste and a smell you never experienced before?

 

Have any of you had a change to your sense of smell after your booster?

 

Yours, curiously

 

Vac.

 

 

My best guess is that you had it asymptomatically last quarter 2020. By the time you took a PCR, there was not enough viral load to be positive. 
 

my son developed parosmia after initial exposure April 2020. Initially standard taste and smell which faded but a couple, months later it came back and became parosmia.  But this was covid attacking the nerve responsible for taste and smell. Evidently, this nerve is the only nerve that grows back once damaged. (That Could be wrong if someone knows ),  And it can do so in a not perfect way which results in the person suffering parosmia.  Solutions to the condition vary hugely so no point in listing them. 
 

I suspect your ‘parosmia’ is a side effect of your immune system dealing with the virus. The introduction of the mRNA vaccine last week has tricked your system into believing you have covid (as it’s supposed to) and the reaction you’ve had is an accelerated version of what happened end 2020 and into 2021.  I would think your experience over the next week or two will be a fast version of what happened last jan and you’ll be ok faster than last time. 

[st albans fox]

7 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

 

(Although I found other data which stated 339m vs 87m.)

 

Whatever.  Let that sink in. 

 

Testing in this country is on an insane level and needs scaling back.  

I’m happier knowing that some people that I would otherwise come across who are infectious will be at home having tested themselves and discovered they have covid. 
 

the fact that boris has shares in China testing kits ltd is not relevant! 

[Vacamion]

8 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

My best guess is that you had it asymptomatically last quarter 2020. By the time you took a PCR, there was not enough viral load to be positive. 
 

my son developed parosmia after initial exposure April 2020. Initially standard taste and smell which faded but a couple, months later it came back and became parosmia.  But this was covid attacking the nerve responsible for taste and smell. Evidently, this nerve is the only nerve that grows back once damaged. (That Could be wrong if someone knows ),  And it can do so in a not perfect way which results in the person suffering parosmia.  Solutions to the condition vary hugely so no point in listing them. 
 

I suspect your ‘parosmia’ is a side effect of your immune system dealing with the virus. The introduction of the mRNA vaccine last week has tricked your system into believing you have covid (as it’s supposed to) and the reaction you’ve had is an accelerated version of what happened end 2020 and into 2021.  I would think your experience over the next week or two will be a fast version of what happened last jan and you’ll be ok faster than last time. 

 

 

If I could give you 10 upvotes for this, I would do.

 

Bravo.  And thank you.

 

 

[SpacedX]

21 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

 

(Although I found other data which stated 339m vs 87m.)

 

Whatever.  Let that sink in. 

 

Testing in this country is on an insane level and needs scaling back.  

Testing can save lives and is particularly important in communities that suffer the most. This information has also been critical to understanding viral transmission, informing effective responses and planning for future pandemics.

 

The objections concern the expense and efficacy of screening of large populations with low infection rates - most positive results are false positives. Furthermore, the effectiveness of population-scale testing becomes increasingly marginal as viral prevalence reduces, and testing alone seems insufficient to eliminate viral transmission. My frustration with LFTs are the high margin for error, particularly if regarded as a one off green light. However, testing may also be diagnostic which can be ill-suited for population-scale screening. 

 

It's a very, very involved, complex and multi-faceted debate. If you have time, this paper is massively informative and evaluates and weighs up the evidence for and against and the strengths and flaws in approaches.  

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41576-021-00360-w

 

24 minutes ago, Izzy said:

 

I reckon @Line-X is really this man disguised as a Leicester fan...

 

Fortunately I am proudly hirsute. You'll find me on the hair products thread taking the piss in addition to the balding thread - taking the piss. (Hardly ****ing  surprising that Foxes Talk was dubbed the 'Mum's net of football forums" in the national press. 

 

Can't really picture him watching the footie. I wonder what team he'd support? 

Edited 14 December 2021 by Line-X

[kyleolly]

Well instead of instantly closing everything pubs should go back to table service and social distancing, with schools reintroducing class bubbles and staggered start times. I think they'll delay schools reopening for a couple of weeks in the new year anyhow.

[kyleolly]

Anyway I tested positive for covid a couple of weeks ago and had the new symptoms of omicon dry cough, sweats and lethargic. Big drinkers would probably write it off as a hangover and get on with it

[SpacedX]

7 minutes ago, kyleolly said:

Anyway I tested positive for covid a couple of weeks ago and had the new symptoms of omicon dry cough, sweats and lethargic. Big drinkers would probably write it off as a hangover and get on with it

 How did you establish that it was omicron? It wouldn't have even been in this country back then when you contracted covid. We only identified it three weeks ago. 

 

I'm assuming that you are double jabbed and therefore experienced much milder symptoms of Delta. 

[VLC86]

What’s everyone’s favourite variant by the way?

[Buce]

3 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

What’s everyone’s favourite variant by the way?

[kyleolly]

10 minutes ago, Line-X said:

 How did you establish that it was omicron? It wouldn't have even been in this country back then when you contracted covid. We only identified it three weeks ago. 

 

I'm assuming that you are double jabbed and therefore experienced much milder symptoms of Delta. 

No not double jabbed 

[HighPeakFox]

7 hours ago, Line-X said:

Why the **** are people still utterly incapable of comprehending this? 

Because a) they don't want to and b) people like playing the victim card at any available opportunity

[Phil Bowman]

7 hours ago, Line-X said:

Why the **** are people still utterly incapable of comprehending this?

Maybe some of them don’t want to.

 

And maybe some understand it perfectly well but keep spouting nonsense for reasons they might understand but I don’t although I can’t see how the reasons could be good ones.

[Tommy Fresh]

1 hour ago, Line-X said:

Yes, because they are one of the most isolated countries on the planet, they imposed strict lockdown regulations, their highly compliant population is fourteen times smaller than of ours and guess what?...they very rapidly closed their borders to practically all non-citizens or residents. 

Agree with all your points in this post regarding New Zealand but interestingly Uruguay during the initial outbreak coped very well despite sharing a land border with Brazil. Obviously they went pretty strict but shows what can be done even if you aren't an isolated nation. Although they did have a period this year where they ended up having one of the worst death rates in the world, apparently the Government removed a lot of restrictions and placed all their reliance on the vaccine.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/24/uruguay-covid-coronavirus-surge

[sm1]

3 hours ago, Babylon said:

They aren’t demonised, they just aren’t proven to work.

Ivermectin in particular has been used extensively in Peru, Mexico, India & Japan with great results. Dr John Campbell has covered the results extensively on his YouTube videos. 

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/indias-ivermectin-blackout-secret-revealed

 

 

[Phil Bowman]

8 hours ago, Steven said:

20 hours ago, Vlad the Fox said:

Was told an heartbreaking story today from a nurse. He had sat with an unvaccinated patient who was dying from Covid, this patient had also encouraged his parents not to get vaccinated who then caught Covid and died. He said that the patient just kept saying “I’ve killed my parents, I’ve killed my parents”

Expand  

Oh dear, how sad, what a shame. I feel bad for the parents but not for the patient

I feel bad for the parents and the patient  - but less so for whoever fed him all the antivax crap that he obviously believed.

[kyleolly]

19 minutes ago, Line-X said:

 How did you establish that it was omicron? It wouldn't have even been in this country back then when you contracted covid. We only identified it three weeks ago. 

 

I'm assuming that you are double jabbed and therefore experienced much milder symptoms of Delta. 

I tested positive on November 29th was it not about then?

[ealingfox]

 

Oh dear.

[VLC86]

14 minutes ago, Buce said:

This might be the only one I’ve not managed to catch yet.

[Corky]

1 minute ago, ealingfox said:

 

Oh dear.

Could you get a more Tory looking set than that lot?

 

 

[kyleolly]

1 minute ago, Corky said:

Could you get a more Tory looking set than that lot?

 

 

Especially the young lad in his braces

[st albans fox]

4 minutes ago, kyleolly said:

I tested positive on November 29th was it not about then?

It was yes but not very widely. Whilst unlikely,  its feasible you may have had omicron. 

[SpacedX]

1 minute ago, kyleolly said:

I tested positive on November 29th was it not about then?

Highly unlikely, The first recorded cases in the UK were on the 27th -  two people linked to travel in South Africa. But the first known case is not the same as the first infection. It is possible that it was in circulation as early as October, but statistically you are far more likely to have had Delta. 

 

If you don't mind me asking, have you had any vaccination? The first jab?