Coronavirus Thread

[yorkie1999]

7 minutes ago, weller54 said:

She could relieve me anytime she wants...

One way....or another

[st albans fox]

8 minutes ago, weller54 said:

She could relieve me anytime she wants...

You do know she doesn’t look like that any more ???

[HighPeakFox]

9 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

I’ve had similar dealings with the NHS as Kenny. 
 

NHS trusts are notoriously slow paying you on construction projects. When you are a huge construction magnate like Balfour Beattie, it hurts because you are dependent on cash flow and making sure sub-contractors. That’s what he’s getting at. 
 

Quite often the funding of that nature is via capital hence if it doesn’t get spent by the end of the financial year, it’s returned back to the pot. 

I think it's probably useful at this point to flag up that NHS and NHS UK are not one and the same. One tried to look after the unwell, the other is a cynical governmental department using the name of NHS and appears to destablise it by being inefficient, whilst the layperson isn't made aware of the distinction.

Edited 18 December 2021 by HighPeakFox

[Legend_in_blue]

10 hours ago, Beechey said:

Uptick in hospitalisations in London, but the lock-step we saw before the vaccine rollout still seems broken.

I swear I saw something relatively similar to this being proposed in April of last year.

 

An Ivor Cummins casedemic special!

 

Tbf he's more accurate a year out than Ferguson has ever been.

[yorkie1999]

Just now, st albans fox said:

You do know she doesn’t look like that any more ???

Who cares, just shut your eyes.

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

 

Regarding 'rules' - I do indeed find the notion of covid passports farcical and the LFTs can be seen as an immediate 'green light' when continued testing is needed, whish is frustrating. Regarding 'inhumane' - I'm assuming you're referring to lockdown which has saved millions of lives across Europe? 
 

Apologies for not tagging you in as I’m not sure how!

I read your Covid posts as they are factual and informative, although I would question the highlighted sentence.

It seems not only an awfully high number just for Europe but we must also take into account the cost of lockdowns on people’s health for non related Covid issues, which sadly has been mentioned recently. 

[Corky]

1 hour ago, adam said:

Just seen professor Ferguson predicting 5000 deaths a day in January without any further measures. He's taking the piss with that. 

But I thought we didn't have enough data to be sure how severe it is? Yet predictions of 5k deaths a day are thrown out.

 

 

[DennisNedry]

On 16/12/2021 at 19:28, phoneticerror said:

Don’t mean to piss on your bonfire mate, but the same happened to me. Took 5 days of taking LFTs before it turned positive. Basically, my advice to you is keep an eye on it, especially if you plan to come in contact with anybody that is high risk 

 

On 16/12/2021 at 19:58, Raj said:

I did a couple of laterals on Novrmber 15th when I started feeling sh1t which were negative. Booked a PCR for next day which was lucky as I got progressively worse at night.

PCR was positive.

 

 

Thanks chaps.

 

I thought better be safe than sorry so ordered a home PCR test which I did and sent off yesterday, am awaiting the results. 

 

I'm feeling 80% better by today so I'm still thinking it's just a cold, would be surprised if it was Covid and I am already feeling mostly better, unless Omicron is mild like the rumours suggest.

[Paninistickers]

1 hour ago, Line-X said:

It's a forum - I simply responded to a reasoned post. You appear to be the one that's highly strung. Relax.

 

Yes you were. It's sheer victim mentality. "Punishment" "Spite".  Seriously, grow up. 

 

How do you know? Clown you are - epidemiologist you most certainly are not. 

 

"Yes man"? What?  When this is all over, (and it will be) I'll willingly buy you a beer - you'll be quite surprised. "Yes man"..

 

To clarify, I take precautions, I don't scorn them, I understand them and why they are necessary. Nothing to do with the contradictory, mixed messaging coming out from our inept 'leadership'. Simple preventative measures that you ridicule, which irrespective of how small, may make a difference to our health services or those vulnerable members of society around me...including I might add, the unvaccinated. 

 

I can't tell you "how to behave" - it's clear that would be utterly futile. And like I said, I reserve judgement out there and go about my own business....as safely as I can. The ones that I see 'proudly peacocking' are those that arrogantly flout and disregard precautions designed to protect others. Scientific illiterates that care only about themselves. 

 

It's an internet forum, that's all. Like I say, if you consistently post arrogant, irrational, self-centred and ill-informed nonsense, then don't react with indignation when you are challenged - which I will continue to do. 

 

Would you like some examples of this? because you seem to acutely lack anything vaguely resembling humility or self-awareness. 

No. I usually cba to prolong a disagreement, but you are plain wrong. 

 

You taken particular umbrage at being told to relax and project it back at me. It's you who's called me a cvnt, arrogant, idiot, tit, self centred,.illiterate, 'clever lad', blah blah. Usually resorting to abusive names is kinda a drop dead giveaway that the name caller needs to curb their temper. You even celebrated someone sneezing on me, presumably in the hope i caught it. Hardly the do-gooder you like to portray yourself as, are you? 

 

And for the umpteenth time, I do, and have, protect others. Mask wearing, double jabbed, rabid hand-washer, respecting personal space, regularly testinf when I have increased my risk profile. I just won't abide by bizarre rules that do neither prevent spread or protect health.  I genuinely can't see what anyone would have against that, other than envy that they are being taken for a fool whilst others largely carry on as normal. 

 

 

[Buce]

1 hour ago, adam said:

Just seen professor Ferguson predicting 5000 deaths a day in January without any further measures. He's taking the piss with that. 

 

No he fvcking didn't; why do you continually misrepresent what people are actually saying?

 

Here is what was said (I've bolded and upsized the salient points to prevent you being confused by too many words. Just read them slowly, I'm sure you'll be ok):

 

“If you have enough cases per day, the resulting number of hospitalisations we think could still pose potentially major challenges for any health system,” Ferguson added. In the report released on Friday, the scientists say booster doses would be “critical” to mitigate the impact of future Omicron waves in countries with high levels of circulating virus.

Worst-case scenario modelling by the team, which assumes no change in people’s behaviour and no other interventions being brought in, suggests the UK could experience more than 5,000 deaths a day at the peak of the Omicron wave, but Ghani said this was “an illustration of the need to act rather than a prediction”.

Edited 18 December 2021 by Buce

[reynard]

56 minutes ago, Farrington fox said:

I’d accept that, except they’ve had a year to prepare for this. 

I hear this all the time. So would you mind saying how exactly you would have prepared for this in the last 12 months? I'm especially interested how you would staff the extra ICU units with trained staff they would need. Also over the last 12 months which patients would you have stopped the NHS and hospitals dealing with in order to prepare for a massive surge in Covid cases.

[adam]

Just now, Buce said:

 

No he fvcking didn't; why do you continually misrepresent what people are actually saying?

 

Here is what was said (I've bolded and upsized the salient points to prevent you being confused by too many words. Just read them slowly, I'm sure you'll be ok)

 

“If you have enough cases per day, the resulting number of hospitalisations we think could still pose potentially major challenges for any health system,” Ferguson added. In the report released on Friday, the scientists say booster doses would be “critical” to mitigate the impact of future Omicron waves in countries with high levels of circulating virus.

Worst-case scenario modelling by the team, which assumes no change in people’s behaviour and no other interventions being brought in, suggests the UK could experience more than 5,000 deaths a day at the peak of the Omicron wave, but Ghani said this was “an illustration of the need to act rather than a prediction”.

So I was right then. Worst case 5000 a day.  

[Fightforever]

3 hours ago, foxile5 said:

Don't excuse them. 

I thought it would be intresting to share the amount of hostility in this thread is insane. No wonder every other thread jokes about this place.

[Parafox]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

You do know she doesn’t look like that any more ???

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

Who cares, just shut your eyes.

Does it make you go blind ? 

[st albans fox]

Just now, Parafox said:

He was right -  close your eyes ……

[yorkie1999]

15 minutes ago, reynard said:

I hear this all the time. So would you mind saying how exactly you would have prepared for this in the last 12 months? I'm especially interested how you would staff the extra ICU units with trained staff they would need. Also over the last 12 months which patients would you have stopped the NHS and hospitals dealing with in order to prepare for a massive surge in Covid cases.

Will you be still saying that in 5 years time.

[Ric Flair]

Putting Omicron to one side, delta seems to have hammered us in this winter which was always going to be a genuine threat. Annoyingly we aren't going to have a chance to assess just how bad and whether the road map of this year and a pretty much normal way of life again could be achieved year round and not this seasonal restrictions and lockdowns that are going to occur again this year. It won't be 2 weeks either, it will be very much the same as last winter.

[SpacedX]

Just now, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

 

 

Regarding 'rules' - I do indeed find the notion of covid passports farcical and the LFTs can be seen as an immediate 'green light' when continued testing is needed, whish is frustrating. Regarding 'inhumane' - I'm assuming you're referring to lockdown which has saved millions of lives across Europe? 
 

Apologies for not tagging you in as I’m not sure how!

I read your Covid posts as they are factual and informative, although I would question the highlighted sentence.

It seems not only an awfully high number just for Europe but we must also take into account the cost of lockdowns on people’s health for non related Covid issues, which sadly has been mentioned recently. 

Yes, to an extent I agree. However we must also factor in the near incalculable knock-on effect that the virus itself has exacted upon the non-related covid issues that you refer to - and is continuing to do so. The sheer transmissibility of omicron is staggering and the implications of this are clear. Also, because we are only three and a half weeks in, there is no evidence demonstrating that it is less virulent than Delta and therefore less severe. It is too early to say. Comparisons with real world data from southern Africa are fraught with danger for the reasons that have been addressed on this thread. 

 

Regarding the figures, this study from June 2020 purely relates to the first wave and lockdowns across the continent:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2405-7

 

The findings indicate 3.2 million people would have died by 4 May if not for measures such as closing businesses and encouraging people to stay at home. That meant that during the first wave, lockdown saved around 3.1 million lives, including 470,000 in the UK, 690,000 in France and 630,000 in Italy. The modelling is not perfect. It does make several assumptions. Primarily that nobody would have changed their behaviour in response to the Covid threat without a lockdown. In the case of Sweden, enforced restrictions were far lighter, but the population was far more inclined to take precautions of their own volition. The study also does not take into account the health consequences of lockdowns that you refer to that may take years to fully uncover. However, it can be argued that this is inextricably linked to and necessitated by the global health crisis itself and so a consequence of the virus. You also have to consider the long-term effect of the covid pandemic upon life expectancy across the planet. There have been 274,079,225 cases...the effects of even a small proportion of these will never be fully quantified. 

 

An recent post suggested that this is a virus with a very low death toll. Let's just pause to consider that claim - because that does that actually mean? Each death is unique, a devastating loss that ripples through a family, a network, a community. But on aggregate, the national death toll can feel abstract, and its constant repetition in the news can become numbing - desensitising.

 

To date the pandemic has claimed 5,359,878 lives worldwide that we know of. The death toll in the US is currently 826,219 which is over double the 405,399 servicemen killed in WWII. For many, attempting to compare the two death tolls or even take note of their brief conjunction is misguided or even offensive. It is certainly a morally tenuous exercise. The true emotional and social impact of either event can never be measured, but many media outlets still mentioned it - as did Biden last January when covid related deaths exceeded it. The reason we compare COVID-19 deaths to something like World War II is not simply because the numbers are there, but to acknowledge this is a significant rupture in society. This mass death is going to be creating trauma too. How are we going to deal with that? How have we dealt with that in the past? I think it is part of our human condition to try to search for some reference points.

 

[pazzerfox]

Can we not have a debate without petty name-calling and getting personal and angry with people!  

[z-layrex]

3 hours ago, Farrington fox said:

So in your opinion why is the NHS in decline. Is it underfunded, is it overly bureaucratic, poorly/overly managed. Is it demand from 67million people.  Or a combination of those? Not withstanding covid, a winter NHS crisis is nothing new. 

I've been in icu for 11 years so worked through plenty of winters. You cannot compare winter flu pressures in the slightest to what I've seen happening since 2020.

[z-layrex]

In London I have no idea how we cope with any kind of covid surge, we are full now and on the edge as it is for staff and beds. We had 13 doubles on icu Friday day shift, do you understand the pressure that puts nurses under, and they've been doing it for 20 months.

 

It feels like our management and doctors don't give a ****. I can't remember the last time I actually saw one of our Matrons. We just get terrible gaslighting emails from the chief execs telling us how we all need to pull together for the patients.

 

I've resigned but I'll still be there until end of Feb.

Edited 18 December 2021 by z-layrex

[SpacedX]

19 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

No. I usually cba to prolong a disagreement, but you are plain wrong. 

That settles it then.

 

19 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

You taken particular umbrage at being told to relax and project it back at me. 

I didn't take "umbrage" to it in the slightest - really. Like I said, you are the one that appears to be uptight as your emotionally charged responses are ample testimony to. You were however correct that I woke up with a "sore head". Had the booster on Thursday and experienced some mild side effects owing to my immune response. Thankfully they've pretty much all gone now. 

 

21 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

It's you who's called me a cvnt, arrogant, idiot, tit, self centred,.illiterate, 'clever lad', blah blah.

You are mistaken. At no stage did I call you a "c**t" - and I absolutely wouldn't do that. What I actually said is "at least I didn't call you a c**t" - which was in response to a post from a member called LcFc82 who had just before then done precisely that to me. I'm completely impervious to online abuse, really doesn't concern me, but I did nonetheless reply to him. The comment has been edited and my response removed. You missed the context, which is understandable, but you need to retract that. The rest? - absolutely, guilty as charged and I completely stand behind it. Like I said, would you like a reminder of some of your previous content and claims on here?

 

29 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

Usually resorting to abusive names is kinda a drop dead giveaway that the name caller needs to curb their temper.

Not at all - patience, maybe.

 

31 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

You even celebrated someone sneezing on me, presumably in the hope i caught it. Hardly the do-gooder you like to portray yourself as, are you? 

What???? I'm honestly beginning to suspect that you have comprehension difficulties, or once again it's a product of your inability to control your emotions, in particular, your all consuming victim mentality,  because I did nothing of the sort. You said the following, remember? - 

 

"How about the old fella who sat behind me v Newcastle who leant over towards the gap next to my seat and sneezed on me? And then at the end of the game, popped his mask on? Thanks old fella! "

 

My response?

 

"What does the irresponsible behaviour of a complete tool at a football game have to do with the benefit of encouraging people to wear face coverings in public places? I was there too, and frankly I rued the fact that I hadn't had the good sense to stay away."

 

- Seriously, nothing to do with me, you really are making a fool out of yourself here.

 

36 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

And for the umpteenth time, I do, and have, protect others. Mask wearing, double jabbed, rabid hand-washer, respecting personal space, regularly testinf when I have increased my risk profile. I just won't abide by bizarre rules that do neither prevent spread or protect health.  I genuinely can't see what anyone would have against that, other than envy that they are being taken for a fool whilst others largely carry on as normal. 

Then contrary to your previous claim, that isn't 75% of the rules and recommendations that you have flouted since June then is it? 

 

38 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

I just won't abide by bizarre rules that do neither prevent spread or protect health.

And for the umpteenth time, such as?

[pazzerfox]

10 minutes ago, z-layrex said:

In London I have no idea how we cope with any kind of covid surge, we are full now and on the edge as it is for staff and beds. We had 13 doubles on icu Friday day shift, do you understand the pressure that puts nurses under, and they've been doing it for 20 months.

 

It feels like our management and doctors don't give a ****. I can't remember the last time I actually saw one of our Matrons. We just get terrible gaslighting emails from the chief execs telling us how we all need to pull together for the patients.

 

I've resigned but I'll still be there until end of Feb.

That is absolutely disgraceful from management but doesn't surprise me.  It sounds like there will be even more resignations going forward if things aren't improving!  

[Super_horns]

On 16/12/2021 at 20:36, Phube said:

Two scariest phrases I hear at the moment:

 

•People will do the right thing

•people should use their common sense

 

Because if the last 5 years have taught us anything is the General Public absolutely can NOT be trusted!!

Yes - you'd think people will be testing themselves on a  regular basis but are they?

 

Particularly those un- vaccinated or who think it is just a cold/flu.