Coronavirus Thread

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

So? What is the significance of this other than these bad-faith actors using it as bait for rabble-rousing?

 

Firstly, as was clearly stated they modelled what they were asked to model. Stop trying to shift blame on to advisors, they don't decide anything.

 

Why would you waste time modelling scenarios where no action or decisions is required? Like creating a personal savings plan for a scenario where you happen to find a grand on the floor twice a week. It's not important.

Because some people seem bound and determined to impugn the scientific method while at the same time providing no better way of understanding this or any other matter of nature. Why, I cannot fathom.

 

Incidentally, I'm curious as to whether Mr Hodges understands the connotations behind the "triple brackets" surrounding his Twitter name handle and in what context he is using it.

[Robo61]

1 hour ago, String fellow said:

The above question isn't directed at me, but nevertheless, let me say that this is something I'd also considered. The problem is that many people across the world need looking after in a manner that is wholly incompatible with such measures. They would all die without hands-on care. So it would truly be a 'survival of the fittest' scenario.

And there would be no heating/lighting so millions would die from hyperthermia.  I am sure there are many more consequencies.  I doubt its a question anyway that can't be answered with any certainty.

 

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

Does the number of people unvaccinated patients in hospital include poorly new borns on ITU? Which across the country will be quite a high number.
Asking the question as I’m wondering if numbers can be manipulated to suit.

[Farrington fox]

10 hours ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Before Serco (I think it was) took over at Glenfield, they had their own in house plumbers. (I know because after the failed ward refurbishments, one of our lads jumped ship and worked for Glenfield Hospital directly)

 

They’d have very basic jobs to do throughout the day. Most of it though involved sitting round drinking tea. When any bigger jobs came in, they’d do it as overtime (double time) so as not to interrupt their daily routine of basically doing very little. 
 

These bigger jobs were quite frequent though, so all the plumbers there were on a very very nice wage. 
 

And people talk like privatising various parts of the NHS is a bad thing 😅

 

A government needs to totally reform the organisation, but none will ever have the guts, as it would stir up hornets nest after hornets nest. 

 

It’s the same in any government run entity. I always remember working as an outside contractor in a prison. I would arrive at 8, leave at 4. (Their rules not mine) The time in between was split 3 hours breaks, 5 hours work.  

[whoareyaaa]

7 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Seriously, why are you feeling the need to comment on subjects that you have shown that you know absolutely nothing whatsoever about? This is everything that is wrong with the internet. Everyone must have an "opinion" which is itself driven by opinion and the internet allows a platform for those with nothing to say, to have their "say" simply because they can. When you challenge this, people then get indignant and defensive. And it gets worse. Once again on here - opinion stated as fact...

 

 

As @leicsmac said, a lab leak is theoretically possible, Wuhan has one of the most sophisticated virological laboratories in China, the suggestion is the virus may have inadvertently been released into the general community via one of the workers. No direct evidence whatosever supports this hypothesis. Conversely, data and evidence based science in support of zoonotic spillover mounts every day. At this stage understand that you are disputing the very field of virology that you are wholly ignorant about - nothing to do with me. 

 

https://virological.org/t/evidence-against-the-veracity-of-sars-cov-2-genomes-intermediate-between-lineages-a-and-b/754

 

The above study is based on a detailed examination of the genetic sequences of two early lineages obtained from people infected in late 2019 and early 2020. For ease of understanding, these two lineages are called A and B. The two lineages differ by just two nucleotides at two different key sites in the genetic sequence. Assuming a single lab escape event, the separation into lineages A and B must have happened after the lab escape. You would then expect to see a substantial number of intermediate lineages, with the lineage A nucleotide at one site, and the lineage B nucleotide at the other site. What you find is that all of the genetic sequences obtained from humans are “pure” lineage A or pure lineage B,suggesting there were at least two different spillover events, either directly from bats or via bridge hosts. Furthermore, the evolution of the two lineages occurred before humans were infected. The genetic evidence, therefore, suggests very strongly there have been at least two separate spillover events into human populations, one being from lineage A and another being from lineage B.

 

As humans encroach more and more on the habitats of wild animals and as wild animals are brought more frequently into close contact with humans, we can expect further spillovers and pandemics to occur. These have happened throughout our history as a species. 

Fair enough.. I'm just putting my opinion out there nothing wrong with that, I'm not stating it as fact.

 

 

Australia, the European Union and Japan have also called for a robust investigation into SARS-CoV-2’s origins in China. The WHO has yet to reveal the next phase of its investigation. But China has asked that the probe examine other countries. Such reticence, and the fact that China has withheld information in the past, has fuelled suspicions of a ‘lab leak’. For instance, Chinese government officials suppressed crucial public-health data at the start of the COVID-19 pandemic, and during the 2002–04 severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) epidemic, according to high-level reports^1,2.

[SpacedX]

1 minute ago, whoareyaaa said:

Fair enough.. I'm just putting my opinion out there nothing wrong with that, I'm not stating it as fact.

 

But you did though.

 

1 hour ago, whoareyaaa said:

This has came out of a lab though 

You're "just putting your opinion out there" - why, when you've made your mind up about something you clearly don't understand, that has zero evidence in support of it and you haven't bothered to read or inform yourself about the emerging science that demonstrates otherwise? 

 

I don't have a corporate cell in my body. I have absolutely no understanding about business and finance and do not read or inform myself sufficiently to obtain this. Hang on, I'll just "put my opinion out there" on the 'investments stocks and shares' or 'cryptocurrencies' thread.  

 

Why?

[SpacedX]

Just now, Line-X said:

I don't have a corporate cell in my body. I have absolutely no understanding about business and finance and do not read or inform myself sufficiently to obtain this. Hang on, I'll just "put my opinion out there" on the 'investments stocks and shares' or 'cryptocurrencies' thread.  

You have absolutely no understanding about football either @Line-X, doesn't stop you posting about that.

 

(Thought I'd pre-empt this before someone else did) 

[Nalis]

24 minutes ago, weller54 said:

Clearly there'll be no New Year celebrations allowed..

The advice is..

Get double bladdered on Christmas Day!

If I was in my 20s I would have gone out over both nights across this weekend.

[Robo61]

21 minutes ago, Farrington fox said:

It’s the same in any government run entity. I always remember working as an outside contractor in a prison. I would arrive at 8, leave at 4. (Their rules not mine) The time in between was split 3 hours breaks, 5 hours work.  

Similarly to the NHS,  the Government contracted out the Estates Management of the Prison Service in 2015,  by 2018 it had gone bust.   I don't know why you required to taske three hour breaks,  the staff certainbly didn't but it would I am ceertain be to do with the need to maintain security.  Not simple in a a secure enviroment where the day to day activities of a prison had to be maintained.

 

[The Year Of The Fox]

1 hour ago, pleatout said:

No idea,  But how about the legislation/ best practice changed between project spec and fitting ?

 

You'd be surprised at the "issues" we have to deal with.  Ligatures are a Biggie.  Did you know patients can hang themselves from a radiator?  You know a normal everyday knee high radiator. 

 

The cost of sinks, taps, radiators, doors etc etc go through the roof once you take patient safety into account.  The the has to design everything around the most vulnerable people in society.

 

 

 

Normal radiators shouldn’t be in hospitals anyway, due to potential scalding

 

I realise builds have to be designed around the most vulnerable people in society. 
 

Whatever, it was a total waste of money. And that’s just at one hospital in the city, never mind the county and country

[Babylon]

3 hours ago, Farrington fox said:

So now it’s been revealed, SAGE were only modelling for worst case scenario’s. Re Omicron. 

 

They use several models. What are you talking about?
 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theweek.co.uk/news/science-health/955158/omicron-predictions-experts-modelling-next-wave%3famp

[yorkie1999]

3 hours ago, Farrington fox said:

So now it’s been revealed, SAGE were only modelling for worst case scenario’s. Re Omicron. 

 

The thing is, how can you have a best case scenario, what do they do, put less numbers in? they can only work on the data they collect so it's always going to be worst case scenarios. The problem comes that the worst case scenario gets fed to the government and the media and it becomes the actual scenario, which it's not. For there to be 5000 deaths a day by febuary, as predicted, there needs to be 1.7 million positive cases a day at the end of january or, 25 million cases throughout  january. That's not going to happen is it.   

[Farrington fox]

This is from yesterdays rally in London. These ordinary people explain rather well the less visible impacts of Lockdowns. Government enforced Lockdowns need consigning to history. No one will ever convince me otherwise.

 

[pleatout]

2 hours ago, String fellow said:

Asbestos?

Yes, asbestos.  You seem surprised.  It was installed in almost every building in the country until about 25 years ago

[yorkie1999]

7 minutes ago, pleatout said:

Yes, asbestos.  You seem surprised.  It was installed in almost every building in the country until about 25 years ago

Ceiling tiles in hospitals.

[pleatout]

12 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

I don't think anyone was proposing to fire all the middle managers - just some of them.

 

My local NHS trust (East Lancashire) had, based on the 2018-19 accounts which was the last "normal" year, 7,161 staff, of whom 2,155 were admin and estates staff.  That's a smidgeon over 30% of the staff not doing medical work.

 

As a comparison, Ibstock (similar sized plc) have 2,310 staff, 269 of them admin.  11.6%.  A far more reasonable ratio. 

 

Incidentall,y re. Brexit, Brexit has no impact whatsoever on our ability to import foreign workers.  The government can allow or not allow as many foreign workers as it pleases. If they can't get foreign nurses, it will be because of covid, not Brexit.

Prob!am here is you don't know who east lancs admib estates provide service to.  They may well provide services to a number of trusts.  Other trusts in the area will have disproportionately lower numbers of admin and estates staff.

 

Uhl, at present provide facilities services across the whole of Leicestershire to both Leicestershire trusts.

[SpacedX]

10 minutes ago, pleatout said:

Yes, asbestos.  You seem surprised.  It was installed in almost every building in the country until about 25 years ago

Very common in older buildings. I have an asbestos cement corrugated roof on the garage which is being disposed of in March for fear of something puncturing it and releasing fibres. It's also in the apex of the house and under the conservatory floor tiles which is fine because it isn't disturbed. Cheap post-war material and a fire retardant. 

[pleatout]

5 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Ceiling tiles in hospitals.

Window sills, walls, floors. It's everywhere.

 

If your house has artex ceilings and was built before the 90s, it probably has asbestos in it

[dsr-burnley]

27 minutes ago, pleatout said:

Window sills, walls, floors. It's everywhere.

 

If your house has artex ceilings and was built before the 90s, it probably has asbestos in it

Though there is a big difference in practice between white asbestos and blue asbestos.  Blue asbestos, I believe, is the lethal one.  Though I don't think the law discriminates.

[Foxdiamond]

What makes me laugh about this so called loss of freedom protesters. They don't know how lucky they are not to have been the war time generations. Conscription, bombing  and food rationing that went on for years. All this and a lot more besides. They should be ashamed. 

[dsr-burnley]

4 hours ago, pazzerfox said:

@Line-X Forgive me for my basic understanding of science but i have a hypothetical question.  If everyone in the entire world went into quarantine/lockdown for 3 or 4 weeks, (meaning complete isolation from the outside world and keeping 2 metres from every member of your family, food delivery by drone, no going out of the house etc) and everyone stuck to these rules.  Would the virus disappear? 

If anyone else has an opinion, please comment.  I'm curious.

No, it wouldn't.  There are too many multi-occupancy households where it would pass from one person to another and still be live in three or four weeks time.  Eg. my nephew works in a 8-person (I think) home for people who can't manage on their own.

 

And of course there are practical difficulties in persuading people to live in homes with no power in January and with no television.  Quite apart from the difficulty of finding enough people with the technology to deliver drones full of food from home, and the difficulty of recharging the drone when the power is off.  I don't know what the effect on the virus would be of literally isolating everybody for a month whether they could cope or not, but the effect on people would be worse than having the virus.

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

The thing is, how can you have a best case scenario, what do they do, put less numbers in? they can only work on the data they collect so it's always going to be worst case scenarios. The problem comes that the worst case scenario gets fed to the government and the media and it becomes the actual scenario, which it's not. For there to be 5000 deaths a day by febuary, as predicted, there needs to be 1.7 million positive cases a day at the end of january or, 25 million cases throughout  january. That's not going to happen is it.   

They do multiple scenarios, as they did or omicron based on numerous things like differing booster impacts, restrictions v no restrictions. Varying transmission rates etc. 

[yorkie1999]

8 minutes ago, Babylon said:

They do multiple scenarios, as they did or omicron based on numerous things like differing booster impacts, restrictions v no restrictions. Varying transmission rates etc. 

Yes, but what i mean is, the data used to arrive at the final projection is what is happening right now, so it must be the worst case scenario else it would be a case,, but if we bring in restrictions, this will happen etc. if that makes sense.

[Foxdiamond]

1 hour ago, Farrington fox said:

This is from yesterdays rally in London. These ordinary people explain rather well the less visible impacts of Lockdowns. Government enforced Lockdowns need consigning to history. No one will ever convince me otherwise.

 

I wonder if these people ever take expert advice on anything or do they always know better

[Md9]

Booster done. No queue went got it done in 2 mins and then went. Thought had to wait 15 mins after the Pfizer jab but said I didn’t need to.