Coronavirus Thread

[whoareyaaa]

1 hour ago, Line-X said:

It hasn't even been proven 1%. There is not a shred of evidence in support of a lab leak theory - in fact everything points to the opposite. So why even form an opinion when you are clearly ignorant of the gathering evidence against it?

 

That to remind you again, you felt the need to say this?...

 

 

 If you had as you claimed "read the information" you wouldn't have said the above would you? In fact, you would have said diametrically the opposite, that all the available data points to to zoonotic origin - which it does. This continues to accumulate. 

 

So you were aware of the paper that I posted earlier today? Of course you were. 

Yea because they (China) have held back the data that would tell help identify the truth... obviously it hasn't been proven because of that reason... saying its came from animals to humans naturally has not been proven yet either so none of us are factually 100% correct.

[yorkie1999]

Said it at the start, if you eat pangolins and bats, you’re gonna catch something.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Deaths down again this week 🤞

[Farrington fox]

Didn’t they say last week Omicron cases would double every 2 or 3 days. It isn’t looking very likely. 
 

[Lionator]

6 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

Yea because they (China) have held back the data that would tell help identify the truth... obviously it hasn't been proven because of that reason... saying its came from animals to humans naturally has not been proven yet either so none of us are factually 100% correct.

Given pretty much every human virus ever in existence has jumped from animals to human, why would this one be any different?

 

 

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, Farrington fox said:

Didn’t they say last week Omicron cases would double every 2 or 3 days. It isn’t looking very likely. 
 

1) numbers drop at weekends

2) don’t you think a lot of people will be ignoring having PCR tests after their positive LFT or showing symptoms so that they don’t have to isolate for Xmas ??

3) I’m suspicious how much capacity there is in the pcr system to get the number of daily tests through at the daily levels we now see 

[Buce]

41 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

Buce - did you just happen to have that ready. Awesome work. 
 

Love the links and reports of work done in the Wuhan lab on gain of function work on exactly this kind of virus, paid for by the USA and coordinated by Fauci himself. 
 

So they’re working on a virus exactly like Covid-19 in Wuhan where the outbreak originated, with funding for exactly that from the USA, and you think it occurred naturally?  Ok. 
 

You do understand that there is a lot of damage limitation going on and placating of China, yes? Oh and research funding - where is that coming from?  

 

Nope. Googled it.

 

I thought facts might add something to the discussion.

Edited 19 December 2021 by Buce

[Parafox]

34 minutes ago, Farrington fox said:

I’ll accept anyones pov. Doesn’t mean I’ll agree with them. I don’t agree with lockdowns it’s as simple as that. 

Good, even though actually, you don't. Will you equally accept the facts and the incontrovertible evidence that lockdowns are and have been a necessary intervention, however difficult they are. People have made huge sacrifices to actually comply because they think it's the right thing to do for wider society. What did you do?

I get that no one likes lockdowns, many people, don't like speed limits or societal rules that keep the majority of the populace safe but most people accept and abide by them because it makes us all safer. Your PoV doesn't make sense. 

"It's as simple as that"... for you, maybe.

 

[SpacedX]

24 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

Yea because they (China) have held back the data that would tell help identify the truth... 

Damn those cunning oriental folk. 

 

24 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

... obviously it hasn't been proven because of that reason... 

So as I correctly said, there is no data whatsoever in support of a lab leak theory....simply conjecture. It's theoretically possible, but we need evidence to base that upon as opposed to suggestion or the belief that the Chinese have denied access to something we theoreticise to exist. Of course they don't want their government laboratories and research institutions audited by the west. 

 

24 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

... saying its came from animals to humans naturally has not been proven yet either so none of us are factually 100% correct.

The difference being, you stated your opinion as fact: "This has came out of a lab though". My response remains the same. There is no evidence whatsoever in support of this aside from conjecture and the circumstantial. I am more than happy to be proven wrong and have invited others to produce the empirical evidence that SARS-CoV-19 was the "result of lab manipulation" which they claim exists.

 

Conversely data continues to be gathered, which you clearly are completely oblivious to, illustrating that SARS-CoV-19 is of zoonotic origin and in spite of unsubstantiated claims to the contrary, this is the view now accepted by the preponderance and near entirety of the scientific discipline of virology. 

 

Shall we talk about that again instead?

 

 

Edited 19 December 2021 by Line-X

[Robo61]

12 minutes ago, Farrington fox said:

Didn’t they say last week Omicron cases would double every 2 or 3 days. It isn’t looking very likely. 
 

F******g hell how many times. This just makes you look thick, which I am sure you are not (you can spell).  

1) Numbers are always lower at the weekend. 2) Omicron is not yet 100% of cases. 3) The limited mitigation in place  is likely to result in lower invection rates.   

I know you don't do science, but you could at least try.

[Parafox]

3 minutes ago, Robo61 said:

F******g hell how many times. This just makes you look thick, which I am sure you are not (you can spell).  

1) Numbers are always lower at the weekend. 2) Omicron is not yet 100% of cases. 3) The limited mitigation in place  is likely to result in lower invection rates.   

I know you don't do science, but you could at least try.

Spelling is not the same as comprehension. As he has proven repeatedly.

Edited 19 December 2021 by Parafox

[whoareyaaa]

1 minute ago, Line-X said:

Damn those cunning oriental folk. 

 

So as I correctly said, there is no data whatsoever in support of a lab leak theory....simply conjecture. It's theoretically possible, but we need evidence to base that upon as opposed to suggestion or the belief that the Chinese have denied access to it. Of course they don't want their government laboratories and research institutions audited by the west. 

 

The difference being, you stated your opinion as fact: "This has came out of a lab though". My response remains the same. There is no evidence whatsoever in support of this aside from conjecture and the circumstantial. I am more than happy to be proven wrong and have invited others to produce the empirical evidence that SARS-CoV-19 was the "result of lab manipulation" which they claim exists.

 

Conversely data continues to be gathered, which you clearly are completely oblivious to, illustrating that SARS-CoV-19 is of zoonotic origin and in spite of unsubstantiated claims to the contrary, this is the view now accepted by the preponderance and near entirety of the scientific discipline of virology. 

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59100114

[Legend_in_blue]

12 minutes ago, Robo61 said:

F******g hell how many times. This just makes you look thick, which I am sure you are not (you can spell).  

1) Numbers are always lower at the weekend. 2) Omicron is not yet 100% of cases. 3) The limited mitigation in place  is likely to result in lower invection rates.   

I know you don't do science, but you could at least try.

I can agree with this to a point, however the original point remains true to an extent as can be seen in the current trend in the data...

 

 

[Md9]

How long can COVID affect younger children. Youngest has it about  4 weeks ago caught a cough again maybe Thursday / Friday and today  been sick a couple times I imagine prob a sickness could it still be an affect from when he had it ?

[SpacedX]

1 minute ago, whoareyaaa said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59100114

What's your point? Did you actually bother to read this?

 

Yes, absolutely, the true origins may never conclusively be known. So given that, I'll ask you again, why then, did you claim this? 

 

9 hours ago, whoareyaaa said:

This has came out of a lab though 

 

To repeat again. There is not a shred of evidence beyond circumstantial US media reports in support of the lab leak theory.

 

However, the scientific evidence is continually mounting in support of zoonotic emergence which together with the coronavirus family have long been known to present a high pandemic risk. Although the possibility of a laboratory accident cannot be entirely dismissed, and may be near impossible to falsify, this conduit for emergence is highly unlikely relative to the numerous and repeated human-animal contacts that occur routinely in wet markets and the wildlife trade and the fact that all animals carry and will periodically transmit zoonoses. 

[ARM1968]

Buce I did you the curtesy of reading your post and some of the original source material for it. Whilst impressive it does NOT prove in anyway whatsoever that the virus was an animal to human transmission. They are missing key pieces of that jigsaw for very good reason. 
 

The closest Sarscov specimen was one isolated from bats by the Chinese Army in 2017 I believe. This sample was sent to the Wuhan BioLab and formed the basis of the research conducted there under the auspices of the NIH in the USA and coordinated by Dr. Anthony Fauci. If we wish to look there are quite a few documents outlining this, including a request from the Wuhan lab to release a partially altered Corona virus into a local bat population. This request was turned down by DARPA. All the paperwork is available for you. 
 

There is masses more, but the outbreak originated in Wuhan, close to the Lab, with a virus that those in the Wuhan lab have been documented to be working on, with significant alterations which some virologists have said are almost like signatures. It literally beggars belief that anyone could reasonably conclude that the virus did not originate from the lab by way of an accidental release. 
 

If you add in to that the world political stage, do you really think anyone is going to ‘officially’ say it, even if they know it?  What would a world whose economy has been decimated say to the country who accidentally released it?  What would they want?  It would end messily and even more so with the direct involvement of the USA in the genesis of the virus. 
 

Like I say, if they ever find the link that proves animal to human transmission I will accept that. Until then I apply Occam’s Razor and conclude that the most likely source is the lab where the original outbreak began. 

Edited 19 December 2021 by ARM1968

[Legend_in_blue]

10 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

Buce I did you the curtesy of reading your post and some of the original source material for it. Whilst impressive it does NOT prove in anyway whatsoever that the virus was an animal to human transmission. They are missing key pieces of that jigsaw for very good reason. 
 

The closest Sarscov specimen was one isolated from bats by the Chinese Army in 2017 I believe. This sample was sent to the Wuhan BioLab and formed the basis of the research conducted there under the auspices of the NIH in the USA and coordinated by Dr. Anthony Fauci. If we wish to look there are quite a few documents outlining this, including a request from the Wuhan lab to release a partially altered Corona virus into a local bat population. This request was turned down by DARPA. All the paperwork is available for you. 
 

There is masses more, but the outbreak originated in Wuhan, close to the Lab, with a virus that those in the Wuhan lab have been documented to be working on, with significant alterations which some virologists have said are almost like signatures. It literally beggars belief that anyone could reasonably conclude that the virus did not originate from the lab by way of an accidental release. 
 

If you add in to that the world political stage, do you really think anyone is going to ‘officially’ say it, even if they know it?  What would a world whose economy has been decimated say to the country who accidentally released it?  What would they want?  It would end messily and even more so with the direct involvement of the USA in the genesis of the virus. 
 

Like I say, if they ever find the link that proves animal to human transmission I will accept that. Until then I apply Occam’s Razor and conclude that the most likely source is the lab where the original outbreak began. 

I'd go with what is alluded to here @Line-X ... 

[whoareyaaa]

40 minutes ago, Line-X said:

What's your point? Did you actually bother to read this?

 

Yes, absolutely, the true origins may never conclusively be known. So given that, I'll ask you again, why then, did you claim this? 

 

 

To repeat again. There is not a shred of evidence beyond circumstantial US media reports in support of the lab leak theory.

 

However, the scientific evidence is continually mounting in support of zoonotic emergence which together with the coronavirus family have long been known to present a high pandemic risk. Although the possibility of a laboratory accident cannot be entirely dismissed, and may be near impossible to falsify, this conduit for emergence is highly unlikely relative to the numerous and repeated human-animal contacts that occur routinely in wet markets and the wildlife trade and the fact that all animals carry and will periodically transmit zoonoses. 

Of course I've read it  well you claimed the opposite.. so none of us are right .. at least we have sorted that out.

 

it's not just US media reports near enough every other country has came to the same conclusion.. the evidence may be mounting but its not conclusive enough to say it has or has not originated from a lab.

 

For all we know it could have been created by the US and dropped in China we don't know what's going on really, there is a huge tech / trade war going on between the two and this virus has appeared out of nowhere. 

Edited 19 December 2021 by whoareyaaa

[Sly]

Nature can be devastating, then again, so can humans. 

 

Whether it was manufactured or not, it’ll never be proven; or have anyone own up to it, if they’re still alive.
 

We still have people believing that Elvis is still alive, the Earth is flat and we haven’t walked on the moon. The conspiracy on where SARS COVID-2 has come from, will rumble on for an eternity. 
 

This virus will continue to mutate and ultimately needs to run its course, until it reaches a point whereby it isn’t as lethal. How far we’re away from the endemic though, is as easy as answering the age old question on “how long is a piece of string”.

 

As a society, the world could have actually dealt with this by putting the entire world population into lockdown for 2 - 3 months fairly early into the pandemic and it would have stopped it (in theory). Would it have been nice? Not at all, however we may have seen a shorter virus time. 

[yorkie1999]

1 minute ago, Sly said:

Nature can be devastating, then again, so can humans. 

 

Whether it was manufactured or not, it’ll never be proven; or have anyone own up to it, if they’re still alive.
 

We still have people believing that Elvis is still alive, the Earth is flat and we haven’t walked on the moon. The conspiracy on where SARS COVID-2 has come from, will rumble on for an eternity. 
 

This virus will continue to mutate and ultimately needs to run its course, until it reaches a point whereby it isn’t as lethal. How far we’re away from the endemic though, is as easy as answering the age old question on “how long is a piece of string”.

 

As a society, the world could have actually dealt with this by putting the entire world population into lockdown for 2 - 3 months fairly early into the pandemic and it would have stopped it (in theory). Would it have been nice? Not at all, however we may have seen a shorter virus time. 

Nah, the yanks will make a film of it and the Chinese will get the blame

[Ric Flair]

4 hours ago, Foxdiamond said:

Learning from history is a good reference point though. Don't fall into the trap that all were well off. Lots of poor as well . Just crazy how many think that not going to the pub or shops is  hardship. Sympathy for the businesses of course. Glad we agree the protesters are idiots. 

I find your dismissiveness out of order, it isn't just about not being able to go thr boozer or down the shop. Many people have been kept apart from their loved ones for huge chunks of the last two years and to be honest once your mental health starts to suffer then it doesn't really matter what the scale of torment is, it can leave people in a shit state and difficult to recover. 

 

 

[Robo61]

26 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

I can agree with this to a point, however the original point remains true to an extent as can be seen in the current trend in the data...

 

 

Again this makes the poster look stupid,  it had not come from where its purported to has it.  

 

I know because it is not possible to say what the totals are for infection today as the figures are not available given the lag time in testing,  and the agency involved would not report them this way given it would be comparing apples with oranges.

 

Happy to be proved wrong

[SpacedX]

Just now, ARM1968 said:

Buce I did you the curtesy of reading your post and some of the original source material for it. Whilst impressive it does NOT prove in anyway whatsoever that the virus was an animal to human transmission.

No one is claiming that it does though. Simply that zoonotic spillover is the most likely origin and there is a growing weight of scientific data in support of this in addition to the consilience of the fields of virology, immunology and epidemiology.

 

3 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

The closest Sarscov specimen was one isolated from bats by the Chinese Army in 2017 I believe. This sample was sent to the Wuhan BioLab and formed the basis of the research conducted there under the auspices of the NIH in the USA and coordinated by Dr. Anthony Fauci. If we wish to look there are quite a few documents outlining this, including a request from the Wuhan lab to release a partially altered Corona virus into a local bag population. This request was turned down by DARPA. All the paperwork is available for you. 

Could you produce it? Original source please and heeding your caveat of data mining, cherry picking and confirmation bias. 

 

It appears that as I suspected, your sources originate with those that I previously mentioned, the r/w US media and the allegations concerning Fauci's involvement stem from Republican Senator Rand Paul. It is beyond reasonable doubt that China is conducting experiments into 'gain of function'. Dr Fauci, as well as being an adviser to President Biden, is the director of the US National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), part of the US government's National Institutes of Health (NIH). This body did indeed allocate grant money to Eco-Health Alliance, an organisation that collaborated with the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Half a million dollars as I recall. However the research in question has been demonstrated not fall under 'Gain of Function' (even though there can be slightly differing interpretations as to what constitutes this). What it does unequivocally show is that it was a molecular level investigation of newly-discovered bat viruses and their spike proteins. When you read the papers, none of the viruses which were the subject of the 2015 study are remotely related to SARS-CoV-2, which caused the pandemic in 2020. This has been discussed innumerable times on this forum. I requested substantive evidence of a lab leak, not a media driven right wing US frenzy. 

 

Accuses someone of confirmation bias...responds with confirmation bias. 

 

19 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

There is masses more,

But genuinely, we've seen it all before. You seem to think we haven't. As I requested, I'd simply like to see the empirical evidence that SARS-CoV-19 was as you claimed the "result of lab manipulation" and the "more informed people than us claiming that the virus likely escaped from a lab". As the one making the claim, the burden of proof lies with you.

 

23 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

It literally beggars belief that anyone could reasonably conclude that the virus did not originate from the lab by way of an accidental release. 

You mean the preponderance and near entire consensus of the field of virology?

 

24 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

. If you add in to that the world political stage, do you really think anyone is going to ‘officially’ say it, even if they know it?  What would a world whose economy has been decimated say to the country who accidentally released it?  What would they want?  It would end messily and even more so with the direct involvement of the USA in the genesis of the virus. 

Of course it would. But that isn't evidence is it?

 

25 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

Like I say, if they ever find the link that proves animal to human transmission I will accept that. Until then I apply Occam’s Razor and conclude that the most likely source is the lab where the original outbreak began. 

Ergo - in the absence of an identified species of bird, you also conclude that Avian Flu originated with a lab leak?

 

And like I say, contrary to your claim, the consilience of scientific evidence would disagree. Given that mutation and adaptation have driven the co-evolution of coronaviruses and their hosts, including human beings, for thousands of years actually by definition, the principle of Occam's Razor forces you to have no other option to conclude that a lab leak is in fact the least likely scenario. 

 

Here is a very balanced paper assessing and summarising the evidence for both, which is what science does. 

https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(21)00991-0

 

Cue inevitable unsubstantiated allegations of corporate funding and scientists being bought out.  We can go there too if you like. 

[st albans fox]

IM WRITING THIS IN CAPITAL LETTERS SO THAT SOME OF YOU MIGHT JUST UNDERSTAND IT

 

PREDICTIONS OF CASES ARE PREDICTIONS OF ALL CASES 

 

THEY ARE.NOT PREDICTIONS OF POSITIVE PCR TEST RESULTS AS REPORTED BY GOVT

 

UP TO A THIRD OF CASES ARE ASYMPTOMATIC -  THEY WILL BE V UNLIKELY TO BE IN GOVT FIGURES 

 

LOTS OF PEOPLE DONT BOTHER TO GET PCR TESTS BECAUSE THEY DONT WANT TO ISOLATE AND BE CONTACTED BY TEST AND TRACE 

 

hence if we had 90k positive PCR test results on Friday it’s not a stretch to think that the real number of infections on Friday could be 200k 

 

and the omicron recorded cases are a load of rubbish - ignore them 

 

btw, was your graph worst case scenario or best case scenario or middle ground ??

[SpacedX]

45 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

Of course I've read it  well you claimed the opposite.. so none of us are right .. at least we have sorted that out.

 

No I didn't claim the opposite. Unlike you, who I will yet again remind you, said "it came from a lab though", I didn't claim anything. I simply presented you with scientific evidence. 

 

 

45 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

 

it's not just US media reports near enough every other country has came to the same conclusion.. 

 

 

You mean popular mainstream press and social media? And how have you established that? 

 

Now look at what the actual science is telling us - because contrary to your earlier claim, you haven't. 

 

45 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

 the evidence may be mounting but its not conclusive enough to say it has or has not originated from a lab.

 

Jeez, this is hard work. There is no evidence at all to show that it came from a lab. To reiterate; the suggestion that it came from a lab, although possible, like the majority of conspiracy theories predicated upon belief is unfalsifiable. The science is also as I said inconclusive but in terms of evidence and the specialism and rigour within the field of virology, it supports the likelihood of zoonotic spillover.

 

There is zero evidence in support of the lab leak theory beyond the circumstantial. 

 

46 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

I'd go with what is alluded to here @Line-X ... 

 

I'll will say this 'Legend' - for various reasons, you do at least frequently bring a smile to my face. Pleased to see that it hasn't 'eluded' you on this occasion.

 

And of course you do, when has a lack of evidence ever stood in your way? 

Edited 19 December 2021 by Line-X