Coronavirus Thread

[CosbehFox]

37 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

I am so frustrated that we're less than a week away from Christmas, after which numerous senior MPs have said that further restrictions are coming. 

 

So, just announce what options there are. Funnily enough, my Christmas plans don't end at the stroke of midnight on the 25th. I have set aside a few things to do - extended family, who I haven't seen in 2 years, friends who I haven't seen. Meet ups and plans have been made for events that are barely a week away. 

 

If you're a manager in any organisation, you tell your team what's coming and what to prepare for. Stop leaking things and put out clear, rational guidance for what people can expect.

 

This is the ONE time of year where you can accurately predict what people will do and can plan for it. Stop avoiding the issue. 

Spot on. Late announcement will see the supermarkets rushed again no doubt too. Supposed to be off Norfolk for the other half’s family - booked a hotel 24th to 27th. They’ve got the food in ready yesterday. She was supposed to go last Christmas and was very upset at how it all played out. 

[SpacedX]

48 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

Would those academics risk their jobs and reputations if they didn’t believe what they were saying?

Again, a go to response I encounter frequently. It isn't about "those academics" - it isn't about any academics, it is solely about the evidence that they present. Questioning, positing a theory, a hypothesis isn't risking your job, your reputation, it's an expectation in science. Of course they believe what they are saying and of course it's right for them to say it. We absolutely should not only be raising the possibility of a lab leak but examining it as stringently as possible. With that - encouraging dialogue. However, as an academic you protect and forge your reputation through significance and rigour. You also must defend those claims and be prepared for them to be falsified. Science does not do 'opinion'. If you have one, you posit a theory, test it ensure that it is reproducible and robust. 

 

58 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

It is easy to rubbish alternative views and tow the line, thus preserving your reputation and income. 

That is why we have the scientific method. Any statement must be based upon systematic observation and evidence and backed by data which is complimented and not contradicting the existing knowledge in the field. You may also question, find flaws or falsify existing scientific consensus or methodology and the greatest acclaim goes to those that successfully do. But again, this needs to be substantiated with evidence. That, is where the reputation and income comes from. No true scientist is willing to be compromised by the thrall of corporate or political interest whilst science itself has a voice of its own.

 

The theories that have been forwarded by scientists are not "alternative views", and they have a voice. The reason that they are becoming marginalised is either through falsification but increasing the growing weight of evidence to the contrary in the absence of any beyond the circumstantial. 

 

1 hour ago, ARM1968 said:

ALL of those speaking out against the narrative are risking pretty much everything. Why would they do that for the sake of conspiracy?  They are NOT all idiots, some are very high profile indeed. This alone should give you pause for thought. I mean it won’t, but it should. 

What narrative? To repeat, it is the job of science to question any narrative and certainly not subjectively manufacture one. The academics that you refer to are not doing that "for the sake of conspiracy", they are absolutely right to raise the possibility. The lab leak theory raises valid questions and possibilities which elements of the popular r/w press (originally predominately in the USA) have reduced to the banal status of conspiracy theory - because the suggestion sells. And no, of course they are not idiots, but we also must guard against appeal to authority. Andrew Wakefield was a physician, senior lecturer and honorary consultant in experimental gastroenterology for goodness sake.

 

Every claim that I come across in science gives me pause for thought...even the outlandish ones. Always look to challenge and be prepared to test your preconceptions. I therefore look at all the evidence presented and where possible, the available literature. And yourself? Here again is the paper that I referred to you. I'm suggesting that you read it because far from foisting views or opinions, it objectively collates and presents the theories behind the origin of SARS-CoV-19 and then independently references the science behind them, before weighing up and evaluating the probability based upon the available evidence that we have. Once you have read it you, together with anyone else on this thread, are welcome to falsify the science that is presented.  

 

https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(21)00991-0

 

To return to this particular claim by Dr. Chan - the science does not support it, that's all. Although the furin cleavage site is not found in the closest known relatives of SARS-CoV-2, this should not be unexpected because the lineage culminating in this virus is poorly sampled and the closest bat viruses have divergent spike proteins due to recombination. The suggestion that the Furin cleavage site is "a unique feature" is utterly disingenuous. Furin cleavage sites are scattered across the coronavirus family and present in their spike proteins. Simple evolutionary mechanisms routinely explain the evolution of an out-of-frame insertion of a furin cleavage site in SARS-CoV-2. This is nothing to do with "towing the line" or rubbishing "alternative views" - it's simply what the science tells us. 

[VLC86]

32 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

I looked out of the window this morning and noticed it's a full Moon.

 

Suddenly everything becomes clear.

Hope the Mrs has got the garlic and stakes on standby. 

[Zear0]

11 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

The definition of what is or is not a vaccine was changed in the USA and also by the WHO, I believe, back in 2019, before the pandemic. 
 

pfizer and Moderna don’t refer to them internally as vaccines either and nor did they patent ‘vaccines’. 
 

“I discussed this troubling fact in a recent interview with molecular biologist Judy Mikovits, Ph.D. While the Moderna and Pfizer mRNA shots are labeled as “vaccines,” and news agencies and health policy leaders call them that, the actual patents for Pfizer’s and Moderna’s injections more truthfully describe them as “gene therapy,” not vaccines.”

https://www.modernatx.com/sites/default/files/US10702600.pdf

 

First sentence in the patent I found linked on the Moderna website (which mentions their work on vaccines rather extensively funnily enough).

 

"( 54 ) BETACORONAVIRUS MRNA VACCINE"

 

With the abstract quoting "The disclosure relates to respiratory virus ribonucleic acid ( RNA ) vaccines and combination vaccines , as well as meth ods of using the vaccines and compositions comprising the vaccines."

[yorkie1999]

19 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

The definition of what is or is not a vaccine was changed in the USA and also by the WHO, I believe, back in 2019, before the pandemic. 
 

pfizer and Moderna don’t refer to them internally as vaccines either and nor did they patent ‘vaccines’. 
 

“I discussed this troubling fact in a recent interview with molecular biologist Judy Mikovits, Ph.D. While the Moderna and Pfizer mRNA shots are labeled as “vaccines,” and news agencies and health policy leaders call them that, the actual patents for Pfizer’s and Moderna’s injections more truthfully describe them as “gene therapy,” not vaccines.”

Yeah but, if they said "the only way out of this is through gene therepy" no one in their right mind would get jabbed would they.

[Nick]

Anybody know what these three options are that civil servants have put to the Cabinet?

[dsr-burnley]

23 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

The definition of what is or is not a vaccine was changed in the USA and also by the WHO, I believe, back in 2019, before the pandemic. 
 

pfizer and Moderna don’t refer to them internally as vaccines either and nor did they patent ‘vaccines’. 
 

“I discussed this troubling fact in a recent interview with molecular biologist Judy Mikovits, Ph.D. While the Moderna and Pfizer mRNA shots are labeled as “vaccines,” and news agencies and health policy leaders call them that, the actual patents for Pfizer’s and Moderna’s injections more truthfully describe them as “gene therapy,” not vaccines.”

Do you also object when bananas ands strawberries are described as "fruit"?

[Nick]

1 minute ago, Nick said:

Anybody know what these three options are that civil servants have put to the Cabinet?

1. Urging the public to limit social mixing, without legal enforcement
2. Mandating curbs on household mixing, the return of social distancing and forcing pubs and restaurants to close at 20:00 GMT
3. A return to full lockdown. The Telegraph says it has been told one cabinet minister would resign if that happened

[Bellend Sebastian]

1 minute ago, Nick said:

Anybody know what these three options are that civil servants have put to the Cabinet?

I know a journalist who has been told on the quiet conflicting things - first 'contact' suggested schools would shut in January, the second said that what was being planned was pretty full on but shutting schools wasn't part of it

[dsr-burnley]

5 minutes ago, Nick said:

Anybody know what these three options are that civil servants have put to the Cabinet?

1. Panic now.

2. Panic tomorrow.

3. Panic after Christmas.

[Buce]

12 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

Hope the Mrs has got the garlic and stakes on standby. 

 

Mmmmm.

 

Garlic and stakes...

 

[yorkie1999]

2 minutes ago, Nick said:

Anybody know what these three options are that civil servants have put to the Cabinet?

Yes, 

Which of the following cheeses are best served with bollinger

a) Murray's Parmigiano Reggiano

b) Meredith Dairy Marinated Feta

c) Murray's French Double Crème Brie

[TheUltimateWinner]

Its weird, but I think the thing that fears me most right now is this impending doom of potential restrictions. 
 

Just ****ing tell us what you’re going to do instead of teasing to gauge public reaction.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

10 minutes ago, Nick said:

1. Urging the public to limit social mixing, without legal enforcement
2. Mandating curbs on household mixing, the return of social distancing and forcing pubs and restaurants to close at 20:00 GMT
3. A return to full lockdown. The Telegraph says it has been told one cabinet minister would resign if that happened

Haha another curfew that they admitted last time was made on the basis of no scientific evidence.

[ARM1968]

Just to add to the NOT a vaccine debate. The current injections are not vaccines because they do not place deactivated pathogens into the body, they place the gene therapy instructions into the body to make the body create the spike protein and then the response to that spike protein. 

This is far and away beyond what a true vaccine is. They’ve been labelled vaccines to make them more palatable to the masses. 

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

1 hour ago, fox_up_north said:

I am so frustrated that we're less than a week away from Christmas, after which numerous senior MPs have said that further restrictions are coming. 

 

So, just announce what options there are. Funnily enough, my Christmas plans don't end at the stroke of midnight on the 25th. I have set aside a few things to do - extended family, who I haven't seen in 2 years, friends who I haven't seen. Meet ups and plans have been made for events that are barely a week away. 

 

If you're a manager in any organisation, you tell your team what's coming and what to prepare for. Stop leaking things and put out clear, rational guidance for what people can expect.

 

This is the ONE time of year where you can accurately predict what people will do and can plan for it. Stop avoiding the issue. 

That’s because we have blithering bumbling buffoons in charge of decision making.

[Zear0]

12 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

Just to add to the NOT a vaccine debate. The current injections are not vaccines because they do not place deactivated pathogens into the body, they place the gene therapy instructions into the body to make the body create the spike protein and then the response to that spike protein. 

This is far and away beyond what a true vaccine is. They’ve been labelled vaccines to make them more palatable to the masses. 

Where did you get that definition from?

 

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/vaccine - a substance that is put into the body of a person or animal to protect them from a disease by causing them to produce antibodies (=proteins that fight diseases)

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm - A preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but some can be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vaccine -  a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease

 

You're going to have to help me out here, but I fear I'm straying into the territory of Mark Twain's most famous quote here.

Edited 20 December 2021 by Zear0

[yorkie1999]

8 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

Where did you get that definition from?

 

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/vaccine - a substance that is put into the body of a person or animal to protect them from a disease by causing them to produce antibodies (=proteins that fight diseases)

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm - A preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but some can be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vaccine -  a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease

 

You're going to have to help me out here, but I fear I'm straying into the territory of Mark Twain's most famous quote here.

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect"  ??

Edited 20 December 2021 by yorkie1999

[boosmanana]

I’ve never seen someone waffle quite as much with their opinions (which they state as fact) without providing any actual evidence as @ARM1968. 
For us regular people, what difference does it make where the virus originated? It’s not going to alter how we behave on a daily basis or how we treat it. Quite frankly I’m not even remotely arsed how it happened as there’s nothing we can do about it. I’m more bothered on how we’re going to deal with it moving forwards, as that’s something that we can control, to a certain degree.

The same people who state that they won’t take the vaccine as they “don’t know what’s in it” and is an “experimental drug” surely spend all their time investigating the exact components of a Paracetamol capsule before swallowing it? Or the exact components of a bottle of coke before drinking it? 
I’m double jabbed, have had covid and have booked in for my booster. That doesn’t make me better or worse than someone who’s unvaccinated

[StanSP]

 

 

 

 

[fox_up_north]

I thought I'd heard peak nonsense when a bloke tried to tell me that the vaccine has silicone in it that, when it's injected into you, makes you property of the state (he didn't specify which one) but this is reaching.

 

I am more than happy for this person to share their thoughts and opinions, as well as argue semantics over the word "vaccine". 

 

I will also assume this person only eats organic material grown by themselves, doesn't smoke, take drugs, eat fast food and boils water every time they drink it. 

[Sly]

What will be, will be. 
 

Half the world ignored the imposed restrictions last year and plastered it on Facebook that they were dining with 15 other people.
 

If anything, they’ll get even more resistance this year. 
 

And why do I keep getting bloody texts to book my booster when I’m already booked in!? 
 

 

[The Horse's Mouth]

1 hour ago, fox_up_north said:

I am so frustrated that we're less than a week away from Christmas, after which numerous senior MPs have said that further restrictions are coming. 

 

So, just announce what options there are. Funnily enough, my Christmas plans don't end at the stroke of midnight on the 25th. I have set aside a few things to do - extended family, who I haven't seen in 2 years, friends who I haven't seen. Meet ups and plans have been made for events that are barely a week away. 

 

If you're a manager in any organisation, you tell your team what's coming and what to prepare for. Stop leaking things and put out clear, rational guidance for what people can expect.

 

This is the ONE time of year where you can accurately predict what people will do and can plan for it. Stop avoiding the issue. 

To play devil's advocate though, is it not worth waiting for what the data says come the end of the week before committing to restrictions which we may not need?

 

I do agree with the leaking stuff though, it's getting pathetic now 

[Zear0]

3 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

I thought I'd heard peak nonsense when a bloke tried to tell me that the vaccine has silicone in it that, when it's injected into you, makes you property of the state (he didn't specify which one) but this is reaching.

 

I am more than happy for this person to share their thoughts and opinions, as well as argue semantics over the word "vaccine". 

 

I will also assume this person only eats organic material grown by themselves, doesn't smoke, take drugs, eat fast food and boils water every time they drink it. 

New World Order obviously. 

[yorkie1999]

1 minute ago, Sly said:

What will be, will be. 
 

Half the world ignored the imposed restrictions last year and plastered it on Facebook that they were dining with 15 other people.
 

If anything, they’ll get even more resistance this year. 
 

And why do I keep getting bloody texts to book my booster when I’m already booked in!? 
 

 

Probably the same reason why i keep getting calls about insuring my washing machine from someone with an awfully strange accent whose name defineatly isnt Simon!