Coronavirus Thread

[SpacedX]

2 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Exactly. It’s so easy to exercise for 30 mins 5 times a week. Housework, going for a walk, running for the train. Likewise eating healthy is so cheap. Controlling alcohol intake should be a given. But no, telling people that would ‘against my human rights yeh!!!’ Pathetic 

?????? But people are told all of that. 

 

There was a major radio campaign last year across commercial stations about precisely that - regulating intake of alcohol. 

[Soup]

So I don't want to booster full stop ( not bothered what people think ) but if restrictions come in that won't allow us to do anything my missus has said we'll have to. She'd have it now if I'm honest and she probably will. I'd be prepared to sit out next year as well but there's absolutely no way she will. ****ing bullshit life, for the 1st time in 2 years I'm going from being angry (but positive) about all this to just sad. 

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

38 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

What irks me at the minute is this never ending bombardment about the unvaccinated being the stain on society and a threat to the world and yet 22 months in to the pandemic there's never been a drive to remind people to exercise more, drink less and eat healthier. All of those things will be just as important to this as the vaccine but as we've seen the hypocrisy on what people are willing to discriminate over is no surprise. 

Agree on this, vaccination is incredibly important amd shouldn't be diluted but equally so is exercise, sunlight, diet and sleep.

 

But we're talking about a ruling party in government that sold off most of the countries playing fields and allowed access to exercise to become incredibly expensive so that's not going to happen.

[KrefelderFox666]

6 minutes ago, Line-X said:

?????? But people are told all of that. 

 

There was a major radio campaign last year across commercial stations about precisely that - regulating intake of alcohol. 

Agreed. There has been lots done to reduce smoking, no adverts/sponsoring, smoking ban in public places, education, morbig images on cigarette packages. Healthy eating, again there have been campaigns, for example Jamie Oliver in schools, making meals healthy and giving kids a good start to life. Of course, there is always more that could be done and should.

 

The biggest issue is that drinking, smoking and eating is all linked to the brain and habits. It is a type of mental health issue that is very difficult to treat. If there were injections to treat mental health problems easily it would be very helpful.

 

Covid is completely different so comparing the two is like comparing apples and pears.

Edited 21 December 2021 by KrefelderFox666

[grobyfox1990]

2 minutes ago, Line-X said:

?????? But people are told all of that. 

 

There was a major radio campaign last year across commercial stations about precisely that - regulating intake of alcohol. 

Lol come on. A radio campaign compared to broadcast interviews from every minister ever saying ‘you must get vaccinated!!’ and public shame for not doing so. I’m not saying the two should be equal, but a radio and tv campaign means nothing. I can’t remember the last time I or anyone I know watched tv or listened to radio. You should be publicly shamed for over eating on junk, drinking and doing no exercise. You’re a burden on society and should be told so 

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

10 minutes ago, Line-X said:

There have been huge concerted efforts to encourage this. One of the major remits of PHE is to inform the public and to advocate healthier lifestyles. Have you not seen the TV and radio campaigns? There has been enormous investment in doing so for the last decade...because again, it is a ticking time bomb in terms of long-term health care - (in particular, obesity and diabetes and the associated comorbidities). The same public bodies, campaigns and third sector initiatives will also be advocating vaccination. No coincidence that PHE used to be called the Health Protection Agency. It's all part of the same mission. I would suggest that the message has become buried somewhat during the current global healthcare crisis - but it's still there. Again, why the attempt to polarise? Both are of tremendous importance. 

What measures have the government taken to educate the population on the importance of sleep and sunlight? How have they made access to exercise easier? What have they done to incentives people not to eat shit?

[SexyGammonFox]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

Probably help as well though if the richer countries didn't hoard them... 

The even bigger problem is that what if a billion people around the world refuse to take the vaccine even if it is available to them? 

[Foxdiamond]

4 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

What measures have the government taken to educate the population on the importance of sleep and sunlight? How have they made access to exercise easier? What have they done to incentives people not to eat shit?

This has been done. Do people really need to be told all the time what is obvious. You can lead a horse to water 

[KrefelderFox666]

9 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

What measures have the government taken to educate the population on the importance of sleep and sunlight? How have they made access to exercise easier? What have they done to incentives people not to eat shit?

There are many problems that are not being addressed enough. Child abuse, gambling etc. However, the biggest threat right now is Covid and hence they are focussing heavily on that. When we finally get out of the deep water I would hope the government spend some time on sorting the general health of this country out, however, it doesn't earn them a lot of money so why would they?

[walkerleeds]

Sport in Wales behind closed doors for the festive period

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

1 minute ago, KrefelderFox666 said:

however, it doesn't earn them a lot of money so why would they?

And that's the real quiz

[leicsmac]

41 minutes ago, filbertway said:

The cynic in me suggests that it's about creating a division and diversion of attention

 

It's certainly possible, but I do think it something of an apples and oranges in the first place.

[Izzy]

37 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

 For example drinking too much is seen as something us British are proud of.

See @Daggersand @tom27111on the Christmas dinner thread as a classic example 

[kyleolly]

26 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Lol come on. A radio campaign compared to broadcast interviews from every minister ever saying ‘you must get vaccinated!!’ and public shame for not doing so. I’m not saying the two should be equal, but a radio and tv campaign means nothing. I can’t remember the last time I or anyone I know watched tv or listened to radio. You should be publicly shamed for over eating on junk, drinking and doing no exercise. You’re a burden on society and should be told so 

Chippy tits Johnson can hardly tell the nation to eat healthily, excersise regularly and not to drink!

[The Horse's Mouth]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

I've just been listening to the national chair of south african medical asscociation, wish we had someone like her as you could actually understand what she was on about,

 

The cases in in the province where omicron was first detected are going down

666 hospitals

18th dec 87 admisions

535 in icu, not all admitted with covid

212 on ventilators

9 out of 10 in icu not vaccinated. 

There's more people going for tests than vaccines.

 

That's how it is, no but's, no if's, no aguement for not being vaccinated.

South Africa can indeed be an argument for not being vaccinated though, they have a very low vaccination rate but they have a very high immunity rate from people who have already contracted the virus.

[ian__marshall]

15 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

But the evidence of the last two years suggests that containment isn't working.  

 

What would lockdown achieve?  OK, we lock down for amonth and there is no extra pressure on the NHS in January.  Then what?  Has the virus been contained and eliminated, or will it surge in February?  I don't see any reason why it wouldn't surge when lockdown ended.  So we need to lockdown for another month.

 

That cures the surge in February.  But what happens in March?  Another surge - another lockdown - same old, same old.  

 

I think the long term plan, if lockdown is the answer, must be to lockdown every winter and open up (partially) in summer, before locking down again next winter.  And let the NHS continue as it is now, even though the medics are both overworked and unable to cope with the workload.  They have to find another way.  

 

Put the plans made in the last two years into operation in the short term.  Deal with the surge using the plans made in the past two years.And hopefully by the end of the surge, we will be more or less out the other side and can all - NHS included - start getting back to normal.

It depends what you define 'is/isn't working' as. The NHS pre-Covid always struggled with the Winter Flu pressure's, so adding in another virus on top has the potential to bring the system to a grinding halt. Yes, new restrictions most likely would delay the inevitable but that will at least be at a time where other pressures have eased. By all accounts from all the medics that I've spoken to, Flu has hit back hard this year as immunity levels are low. 

[Ric Flair]

49 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

There are many regular tv programmes and advice telling people to do eat healthy and exercise etc  stop smoking and the rest. Fact is some people won't be told whatever facts are out there. Most of us are guilty to a degree. For example drinking too much is seen as something us British are proud of. We are catching up the US in obesity. 

 

40 minutes ago, Line-X said:

There have been huge concerted efforts to encourage this. One of the major remits of PHE is to inform the public and to advocate healthier lifestyles. Have you not seen the TV and radio campaigns? There has been enormous investment in doing so for the last decade...because again, it is a ticking time bomb in terms of long-term health care - (in particular, obesity and diabetes and the associated comorbidities). The same public bodies, campaigns and third sector initiatives will also be advocating vaccination. No coincidence that PHE used to be called the Health Protection Agency. It's all part of the same mission. I would suggest that the message has become buried somewhat during the current global healthcare crisis - but it's still there. Again, why the attempt to polarise? Both are of tremendous importance. 

What I'm getting at is, why aren't those in power threatening people with the sack for being fat and lazy or a pisshead? Why aren't the media bombarding their readers and viewers with disdain and seeking out anyone who's ever been in the public eye to ram down our throats how disgusting it is to be a porker?

It's the aggression and discrimination that will make people sit up and take notice. They are more than happy to do it over the small % of adults that haven't had the vaccine yet.

 

Hypocrisy at its finest. Obesity and an unhealthy way of life will be just as devastating to our society but there'll never be an environment that encourages discrimination, prejudice and public abuse of these people. 

[SpacedX]

Just now, dsr-burnley said:

But the evidence of the last two years suggests that containment isn't working.  

 

There are still many parts of the world that are unvaccinated. The objective in the battle against any virus is containment. There are many tools for containment though, vaccination is one of them and this can help drive the virus down to such a point that it may be eliminated in communities and nations. Currently rapid replication and mutation is thwarting that. We are confronted by the dynamic of a virus and the flux of mutations. If omicron is indeed milder, since it is destined to become the dominant strain around the world and it may be easier then to battle a single foe. the problem is, as I say, viruses are always mutating, and RNA viruses like SARS-CoV-2, which causes Covid-19, are particularly mercurial. The more the virus multiplies and spreads, the greater the chances of a mutation. Most mutations have no effect or are harmful to the virus, but occasionally the virus undergoes a change (or group of changes) that makes the virus spread more readily, better evade the immune system, or cause more severe illness - (variants). Despite the appreciable success of the vaccinations against Delta, the virus is again, one step ahead. The concern is the immediate damage that omicron will wreak worldwide upon global healthcare provision - which remember is shamefully inequitable. 

 

14 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

But the evidence of the last two years suggests that containment isn't working.  

 

What would lockdown achieve?  OK, we lock down for amonth and there is no extra pressure on the NHS in January.  Then what?  Has the virus been contained and eliminated, or will it surge in February?  I don't see any reason why it wouldn't surge when lockdown ended.  So we need to lockdown for another month.

 

I may be wrong here, but I think you may have misinterpreted what is meant by 'containment'. Apologies if I'm mistaken,

 

Lockdown has not been announced. The government is steadfastly opposed to it. It is however one tool at their disposal and I would suggest will only be employed if cases become so high that basic life saving treatment is being denied and in the event of mass sickness of key frontline service workers. 

 

Repeatedly, the same contributors to this thread are somehow believe that lockdown is designed to eliminate the virus. It isn't. Its simply one measure intended to stop it from running away in the race to overtake it. 

 

19 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

I think the long term plan, if lockdown is the answer, must be to lockdown every winter and open up (partially) in summer, before locking down again next winter.  And let the NHS continue as it is now, even though the medics are both overworked and unable to cope with the workload.  They have to find another way.  

 

Put the plans made in the last two years into operation in the short term.  Deal with the surge using the plans made in the past two years.And hopefully by the end of the surge, we will be more or less out the other side and can all - NHS included - start getting back to normal.

Why do you keep mentioning 'lockdown'? I didn't - nor was I arguing for it, because right now, we simply don't know. Lockdowns were essential in  2020 and early 2021 because we did not have a vaccination programme. The purpose here would be to relieve clinical burden - and I think we may see a January firebreak for that purpose.  As I said, it may be that our current 'wait and see' policy pays off, but judging by the rate of infection, further measures are probably inevitable. 

 

There's an obsessive fixation with the word 'lockdown' on this forum without actually understanding what it is designed to do. 

 

My post related to disease containment, non-pharmaceutical interventions and countermeasures aside, natural immunity and science will eventually enable us to drive down and endemic virus, contain it and hopefully eliminate SARS-CoV-19 in many parts of the world. (Remember, as I explained to you earlier this year, that is not the same as eradication). Currently, we are playing catch up again. 

 

Can we stop fixating on ****ing lockdown. I'm not even arguing for it at this stage - and I certainly don't want to see it introduced. I simply call out those that proclaim 'it doesn't work'...because due to the fact that they demonstrably don't understand what it was intended to do, fail to understand that it did and saved millions of lives across Europe and avoided the near collapse of our healthcare provision. The damage it has wrought to a shamefully vulnerable and neglected NHS is incalculable. Unbelievably, there are still people on this thread that think that lockdown was supposed to rid us of SARS-CoV-19 entirely. 

 

It's a year later now. We have made huge progress in our uphill battle against this shit...and every step we make is one closer to containment of this viral pathogen - even though it currently has a habit of running off....we will eventually overtake it and snare it. You will largely have science and technology and a large helping of happenstance to thank for that.  

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

 

What I'm getting at is, why aren't those in power threatening people with the sack for being fat and lazy or a pisshead? Why aren't the media bombarding their readers and viewers with disdain and seeking out anyone who's ever been in the public eye to ram down our throats how disgusting it is to be a porker?

It's the aggression and discrimination that will make people sit up and take notice. They are more than happy to do it over the small % of adults that haven't had the vaccine yet.

 

Hypocrisy at its finest. Obesity and an unhealthy way of life will be just as devastating to our society but there'll never be an environment that encourages discrimination, prejudice and public abuse of these people. 

Because, as mentioned before, these things involve different levels of personal responsibility in terms of ease of doing them. And one is much more preventable than another.

 

 

[Innovindil]

10 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

 

What I'm getting at is, why aren't those in power threatening people with the sack for being fat and lazy or a pisshead? Why aren't the media bombarding their readers and viewers with disdain and seeking out anyone who's ever been in the public eye to ram down our throats how disgusting it is to be a porker?

It's the aggression and discrimination that will make people sit up and take notice. They are more than happy to do it over the small % of adults that haven't had the vaccine yet.

 

Hypocrisy at its finest. Obesity and an unhealthy way of life will be just as devastating to our society but there'll never be an environment that encourages discrimination, prejudice and public abuse of these people. 

Because I can be fat and do my job very well thank you. 

 

And if you are seriously suggesting that fatties don't face public abuse then I'd suggest you are sadly deluded. Plus, smokers have been targeted again and again, pay ridiculous amounts of tax on tobacco products and have faced bans in public places etc etc. Hardly the smoking utopia of old is it. 

[Foxdiamond]

Probably that being obese or a smoker etc is not something to be passed on like covid or even the flu or a cold. I was always annoyed that going into work full of cold was thought ok. No doubt the issues of poor public health will be highlighted more in the future. 

[fox_up_north]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

What irks me at the minute is this never ending bombardment about the unvaccinated being the stain on society and a threat to the world and yet 22 months in to the pandemic there's never been a drive to remind people to exercise more, drink less and eat healthier. All of those things will be just as important to this as the vaccine but as we've seen the hypocrisy on what people are willing to discriminate over is no surprise. 

Funnily enough, just before the pandemic hit I was starting to exercise again after ballooning to a 36+ inch waist. The lockdown gave me no excuse and seeing how some people responded with eating and drinking at home, I've tried to do the opposite. Now comfortably under 13 stone and feel a lot healthier.

 

Shin splints are a fucher though!

[Ric Flair]

7 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Because, as mentioned before, these things involve different levels of personal responsibility in terms of ease of doing them. And one is much more preventable than another.

 

 

So that makes the current public discrimination and bandwagon to crack on and get quite aggressive and threatening about it because after all its just a couple of injections? 

 

However annoying it is that a small % of adults are choosing not to have a vaccine, the way people are being encouraged to view these people quite so negatively doesn't sit right with me. Goes against everything we've been educated on in the last generation or two.

[dsr-burnley]

3 minutes ago, Line-X said:

There are still many parts of the world that are unvaccinated. The objective in the battle against any virus is containment. There are many tools for containment though, vaccination is one of them and this can help drive the virus down to such a point that it may be eliminated in communities and nations. Currently rapid replication and mutation is thwarting that. We are confronted by the dynamic of a virus and the flux of mutations. If omicron is indeed milder, since it is destined to become the dominant strain around the world and it may be easier then to battle a single foe. the problem is, as I say, viruses are always mutating, and RNA viruses like SARS-CoV-2, which causes Covid-19, are particularly mercurial. The more the virus multiplies and spreads, the greater the chances of a mutation. Most mutations have no effect or are harmful to the virus, but occasionally the virus undergoes a change (or group of changes) that makes the virus spread more readily, better evade the immune system, or cause more severe illness - (variants). Despite the appreciable success of the vaccinations against Delta, the virus is again, one step ahead. The concern is the immediate damage that omicron will wreak worldwide upon global healthcare provision - which remember is shamefully inequitable. 

 

I may be wrong here, but I think you may have misinterpreted what is meant by 'containment'. Apologies if I'm mistaken,

 

Lockdown has not been announced. The government is steadfastly opposed to it. It is however one tool at their disposal and I would suggest will only be employed if cases become so high that basic life saving treatment is being denied and in the event of mass sickness of key frontline service workers. 

 

Repeatedly, the same contributors to this thread are somehow believe that lockdown is designed to eliminate the virus. It isn't. Its simply one measure intended to stop it from running away in the race to overtake it. 

 

Why do you keep mentioning 'lockdown'? I didn't - nor was I arguing for it, because right now, we simply don't know. Lockdowns were essential in  2020 and early 2021 because we did not have a vaccination programme. The purpose here would be to relieve clinical burden - and I think we may see a January firebreak for that purpose.  As I said, it may be that our current 'wait and see' policy pays off, but judging by the rate of infection, further measures are probably inevitable. 

 

There's an obsessive fixation with the word 'lockdown' on this forum without actually understanding what it is designed to do. 

 

My post related to disease containment, non-pharmaceutical interventions and countermeasures aside, natural immunity and science will eventually enable us to drive down and endemic virus, contain it and hopefully eliminate SARS-CoV-19 in many parts of the world. (Remember, as I explained to you earlier this year, that is not the same as eradication). Currently, we are playing catch up again. 

 

Can we stop fixating on ****ing lockdown. I'm not even arguing for it at this stage - and I certainly don't want to see it introduced. I simply call out those that proclaim 'it doesn't work'...because due to the fact that they demonstrably don't understand what it was intended to do, fail to understand that it did and saved millions of lives across Europe and avoided the near collapse of our healthcare provision. The damage it has wrought to a shamefully vulnerable and neglected NHS is incalculable. Unbelievably, there are still people on this thread that think that lockdown was supposed to rid us of SARS-CoV-19 entirely. 

 

It's a year later now. We have made huge progress in our uphill battle against this shit...and every step we make is one closer to containment of this viral pathogen - even though it currently has a habit of running off....we will eventually overtake it and snare it. You will largely have science and technology and a large helping of happenstance to thank for that.  

I keep mentioning lockdown because the media keeps mentioning it as a possible solution, and the cabinet has made it clear that it is an option.  I can't stop fixating on it because it would, for me and especially for my mother, be a disaster.  The difference in her health between when she can get out and meet people, and when she can't, is huge.

 

And as for why it isn't working?  Two years ago we were hit by a virus.  We weren't ready.  We had to lockdown to stop the spread, we had to lockdown because the NHS wasn't ready, we had to lockdown to buy time to put procedures and treatments and vaccines in place to save lives.

 

In the two years since, we have developed excellent vaccines.  We have developed better treatments.  And it is propsed that we need to go into lockdown to stop the spread, we need to go into lockdown because the NHS isn't ready.  

 

Vaccines have heavily reduced the risk of death to me and my family, down to almost negligible levels - certainly too small for me to want to make any difference to my way of life.  But even so, if the pro-lockdown lobby has its way, my life for the next 6 motnhs will be little different from what it was in March 2020.  That is why I say lockdown hasn't worked.

 

If we do get evidence that there are severe effects of omicron in spite of vaccines and such - and so far, the evidence is that there aren't - then we may have to lockdown.  But I'm not talking about Neil Ferguson's 18-million-cases-=per-day predictions.  I'm talking about actual, real world evidence. Until actual, real world evidence exists, then it should be business as usual.

 

I am sorry for the doctors and nurses of the NHS who have been absolutely sold down the river by the incompetence of the NHS bosses, the civil service, and the utterly ineffective politicians right up to Boris Johnson.  But if covid for the vaccinated has become a much miler illness, at is surely has, then we need to let that improvement make an improvement in our lives.

[Ric Flair]

11 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

Probably that being obese or a smoker etc is not something to be passed on like covid or even the flu or a cold. I was always annoyed that going into work full of cold was thought ok. No doubt the issues of poor public health will be highlighted more in the future. 

But the message that's now being used is the reason it's so unacceptable not to be vaccinated, isn't because of the spread but because its rhe unvaccinated that are overwhelming our NHS and thereby threatening us all if we become sick. How many people die from obesity and too much piss every year? 

 

I'm playing devil's advocate here anyway, purely because I don't like the bandwagon of discrimination being levelled at a body choice. People should get the vaccine on the balance of things but if they don't given its such a small % that haven't then I have to respect that.