Coronavirus Thread

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

So that makes the current public discrimination and bandwagon to crack on and get quite aggressive and threatening about it because after all its just a couple of injections? 

 

However annoying it is that a small % of adults are choosing not to have a vaccine, the way people are being encouraged to view these people quite so negatively doesn't sit right with me. Goes against everything we've been educated on in the last generation or two.

I can see where you're coming from.

 

But if it's just a freedom of choice argument, my take is then as people are free to not get vaccinated, so should other people be to choose to not associate with them and to speak their own piece about it.

 

I agree that it would be nice if folks were more accommodating and less confrontational about it all - this whole episode has highlighted the deep polarisation that exists in sections of our society and being kind is almost always better. However...when it comes to disasters of nature, sometimes nature, as brutal as it is, doesn't reward kindness with survival and we need to understand that.

[SpacedX]

3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

 

What I'm getting at is, why aren't those in power threatening people with the sack for being fat and lazy or a pisshead? Why aren't the media bombarding their readers and viewers with disdain and seeking out anyone who's ever been in the public eye to ram down our throats how disgusting it is to be a porker?

It's the aggression and discrimination that will make people sit up and take notice. They are more than happy to do it over the small % of adults that haven't had the vaccine yet.

 

Hypocrisy at its finest. Obesity and an unhealthy way of life will be just as devastating to our society but there'll never be an environment that encourages discrimination, prejudice and public abuse of these people. 

I understand your frustrations. Your excellent, touching and actually brave testimonies against the scourge of gambling invites similar themes. Alcohol, like gambling is institutionalised, it's regarded as the norm...it's encouraged in our culture - literally celebrated. The removal of cigarette branding and banning smoking in indoor public places had a huge impact and as a result is commonly stigmatised, but we still invite alcohol and gambling into our homes and our culture. 

 

Increasingly the British public in common with the US seem to favour excess and doing things to excess. Like I say, there has been huge pressure to regulate junk food, reduce sugar, salt and fat content and to raise dietary awareness. Whilst shit food is out there, you can't rely upon people to regulate their behaviour, eat healthier food, exercise and do the responsible thing. The current libertarian stance during this current healthcare crisis is that left to their own devices, people will. But this thread is replete with evidence that, actually they don't. So what do you do?

 

Forms of passive discrimination may be the answer, but I don't believe that anyone should be subject to "public abuse" or "prejudice" - and certainly those that are vaccine hesitant. The anti-vax movement should be condemned, vilified and treated with the contempt it deserves at every opportunity however. 

 

Discrimination is a dangerous word but I understand why those that have elected not to be vaccinated for personal reasons can feel that they are currently subject to it - a particularly the farcical covid pass system, which feels like coercion. They in turn, need to also appreciate why such measures have come about. 

[KrefelderFox666]

4 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

But the message that's now being used is the reason it's so unacceptable not to be vaccinated, isn't because of the spread but because its rhe unvaccinated that are overwhelming our NHS and thereby threatening us all if we become sick. How many people die from obesity and too much piss every year? 

 

I'm playing devil's advocate here anyway, purely because I don't like the bandwagon of discrimination being levelled at a body choice. People should get the vaccine on the balance of things but if they don't given its such a small % that haven't then I have to respect that.

I think the biggest factor is that until now, overweight/alcoholic/smokers/generally unhealthy people have not caused the rest of the population to suffer through restrictions on every day life etc. There is no doubt the NHS is clogged up with uneccessary cases but to every day people, it never mattered.

 

Now, Covid has taken grip, something that current humanity has never seen or witnessed/lived through. To many, it is a simple vaccine to make this go away (not that simple but for a lot of people that is what they think, and let's be honest, it's not far from the truth). Unlike the above unhealthy people, those not taking the vaccine are now in the view of every day people as more restrictions are likely even though those people have done everything they can to get out of this. Hence they are annoyed at such because they suffer from others choices.

 

Of course, the wider picture is a lot more complex than just getting everyone in the UK vaccinated. And I am not saying it is right or wrong, merely trying to explain what the reasons might be that Covid unvaccinated are generating more of a disliking than the local alcoholic.

 

We are in a very tricky situation and have a lot to come yet.

[Foxdiamond]

6 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

But the message that's now being used is the reason it's so unacceptable not to be vaccinated, isn't because of the spread but because its rhe unvaccinated that are overwhelming our NHS and thereby threatening us all if we become sick. How many people die from obesity and too much piss every year? 

 

I'm playing devil's advocate here anyway, purely because I don't like the bandwagon of discrimination being levelled at a body choice. People should get the vaccine on the balance of things but if they don't given its such a small % that haven't then I have to respect that.

Thanks for the debate. I would like the unvaccinated to answer that if the vaccines had not been found or if everyone took their view where would  we be now?  I would suggest the situation would be far worse. Are they hiding behind the vaccinated or do they truly believe that the virus is overhyped 

[Stuntman_Mike]

49 minutes ago, kyleolly said:

Chippy tits Johnson can hardly tell the nation to eat healthily, excersise regularly and not to drink!

[SpacedX]

15 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

I keep mentioning lockdown because the media keeps mentioning it as a possible solution, and the cabinet has made it clear that it is an option.  I can't stop fixating on it because it would, for me and especially for my mother, be a disaster.  The difference in her health between when she can get out and meet people, and when she can't, is huge.

 

It is always very much on my mind when you post,  the situation that you are in and that your Mother needs social interaction. It was disastrous for my family too and like you I certainly don't want to see a return to it. 

 

18 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

And as for why it isn't working?  Two years ago we were hit by a virus.  We weren't ready.  We had to lockdown to stop the spread, we had to lockdown because the NHS wasn't ready, we had to lockdown to buy time to put procedures and treatments and vaccines in place to save lives.

 

In the two years since, we have developed excellent vaccines.  We have developed better treatments.  And it is propsed that we need to go into lockdown to stop the spread, we need to go into lockdown because the NHS isn't ready.  

 

Vaccines have heavily reduced the risk of death to me and my family, down to almost negligible levels - certainly too small for me to want to make any difference to my way of life.  But even so, if the pro-lockdown lobby has its way, my life for the next 6 motnhs will be little different from what it was in March 2020.  That is why I say lockdown hasn't worked.

 

Lockdown did work. It accomplished what it was designed to do at the time. However, the virus, which is the enemy here, continues to mutate. It has now produced an incredibly contagious strain. That is the concern.

 

20 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

If we do get evidence that there are severe effects of omicron in spite of vaccines and such - and so far, the evidence is that there aren't - then we may have to lockdown.  But I'm not talking about Neil Ferguson's 18-million-cases-=per-day predictions.  I'm talking about actual, real world evidence. Until actual, real world evidence exists, then it should be business as usual.

 

Which right now is the pretty much the policy that is being pursued. 

 

22 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

I am sorry for the doctors and nurses of the NHS who have been absolutely sold down the river by the incompetence of the NHS bosses, the civil service, and the utterly ineffective politicians right up to Boris Johnson.  But if covid for the vaccinated has become a much miler illness, at is surely has, then we need to let that improvement make an improvement in our lives.

It has and it will. And as more people are infected by these variants, the higher the natural immunity. Vaccination needs to be an equitable global effort, the more that are vaccinated, the less the mutation rate occur and consequently emergent variants. We then drive down and contain...and possibly eliminate this virus.

 

However, the immediate concern is the possibility that our "sold down the river" healthcare services are overwhelmed by the meteoric rise in cases, that talented people are walking away from their roles and unprecedented levels of staff sickness may take a serious toll on our frontline and emergency services. 

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

The lft I just did came up positive straight away with the 2 lines instantly. I've felt rough for days though, a bit better today than yesterday, how does that work? 

[danny.]

I find the health thing baffling too, I believe it's well documented that BMI, fitness and vitamin D levels play a huge part in severity of Covid. I read (not I can't remember where, sorry) last week that most people in ICU are obese.

 

Certainly many of the articles on Covid deaths/severe cases I've read will label someone as "otherwise healthy", and then the photo of them shows they are 25 stone, which is just weird considering we know there is a link between severe disease and obesity.

 

I don't think a radio campaign is really pushing to people to lose weight, get healthier and look at vitamin D intake levels. I imagine many people, especially younger, hardly listen to the radio or watch TV. I'm almost 40 so relatively older and haven't watched live TV or radio for years as streaming services are much better.

I think it's disingenuous to claim the government have pushed fitness/weight/diet as they have vaccines, they simply haven't. Why not take 10 seconds each press conference to encourage people to improve on those areas? And the "you can take a horse to water" argument doesn't hold, if that's the case - why constantly mention vaccines, by that logic everyone already knows by now to take them so we'd never mention them again,

Edited 21 December 2021 by danny.

[grobyfox1990]

1 hour ago, kyleolly said:

Chippy tits Johnson can hardly tell the nation to eat healthily, excersise regularly and not to drink!

Hahahah good point!! Didn’t think that through did I!!

[Foxdiamond]

2 minutes ago, danny. said:

I find the health thing baffling too, I believe it's well documented that BMI, fitness and vitamin D levels play a huge part in severity of Covid. I read (not I can't remember where, sorry) last week that most people in ICU are obese.

 

Certainly many of the articles on Covid deaths/severe cases I've read will label someone as "otherwise healthy", and then the photo of them shows they are 25 stone, which is just weird considering we know there is a link between severe disease and obesity.

 

I don't think a radio campaign is really pushing to people to lose weight, get healthier and look at vitamin D intake levels. I imagine many people, especially younger, hardly listen to the radio or watch TV. I'm almost 40 so relatively older and haven't watched live TV or radio for years as steaming services are much better.

I think it's disingenuous to claim the government have pushed fitness/weight/diet as they have vaccines, they simply haven't. Why not take 10 seconds each press conference to encourage people to improve on those areas? And the "you can take a horse to water" argument doesn't hold, if that's the case - why constantly mention vaccines, by that logic everyone already knows by now to take them so we'd never mention them again,

No doubt some people are not reachable whatever you do. Getting people to engage is the issue for some. Do they watch the news or newspapers or watch educational programmes. Some won't be lead to water. Perhaps this explains why credence is given to crackpot Internet stuff over responsible outlets even if they do dip in for information. Western excess is a problem too

[SpacedX]

1 hour ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

What measures have the government taken to educate the population on the importance of sleep and sunlight? How have they made access to exercise easier? What have they done to incentives people not to eat shit?

Whoa... whoa...hold on, I don't disagree. I'm simply saying that the suggestion that "there's never been a drive to remind people to exercise more, drink less and eat healthier."   is untrue, that's all. Of course much more needs to be done. 

 

 

[SpacedX]

1 hour ago, kyleolly said:

Chippy tits Johnson can hardly tell the nation to eat healthily, excersise regularly and not to drink!

Why not?...he told them not to have parties at Christmas. 

[HankMarvin]

19 hours ago, Daggers said:

I had mine in my penis. It took them an hour, mainly to find the microscope - and I can confirm it definitely doesn't work.

Seems like this is fairly common now 

never heard about it till you posted.

just look at the amount of daily cumvirustests that are taking place.

16 hours ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Or becoming part of the 100% increase (albeit on one particular day - even so, eye watering figures nonetheless) in PCRs being conducted since the final week in November...

 

 

 

 

[danny.]

15 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

No doubt some people are not reachable whatever you do. Getting people to engage is the issue for some. Do they watch the news or newspapers or watch educational programmes. Some won't be lead to water. Perhaps this explains why credence is given to crackpot Internet stuff over responsible outlets even if they do dip in for information. Western excess is a problem too

You could apply all this to the vaccine encouragement. Are you saying that as much is done/has been done over the last 2 years to encourage good diet/exercise/vitamin D as has been done to encourage vaccine uptake? There is plenty the government could do in terms of marketing and legislation to encourage people to be healthier if they wanted to.

[martyn]

41 minutes ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

The lft I just did came up positive straight away with the 2 lines instantly. I've felt rough for days though, a bit better today than yesterday, how does that work? 

When I had COVID I didn't test positive on an LFT until 4 days after initial symptoms (and like you it showed a solid positive line instantly) and I was already starting to feel much better

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

So that makes the current public discrimination and bandwagon to crack on and get quite aggressive and threatening about it because after all its just a couple of injections? 

 

However annoying it is that a small % of adults are choosing not to have a vaccine, the way people are being encouraged to view these people quite so negatively doesn't sit right with me. Goes against everything we've been educated on in the last generation or two.

I'd say it fits in well with how people now treat and view smokers. 

[OrielCaziado]

4 minutes ago, martyn said:

When I had COVID I didn't test positive on an LFT until 4 days after initial symptoms (and like you it showed a solid positive line instantly) and I was already starting to feel much better

My mate was the same. Full of a head cold this time last week. Took a test Wednesday and in the clear. Took another one Friday and still okay. Felt loads better Come Friday night and went out and followed it up with a good weekend in various pubs. He text me yesterday to say he’s now took a test and is positive. He now doesn’t know whether to laugh or cry given his antics over the weekend. 

[Ric Flair]

3 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I'd say it fits in well with how people now treat and view smokers. 

Yes it's quite similar, probably one step removed. 

[Foxdiamond]

14 minutes ago, danny. said:

You could apply all this to the vaccine encouragement. Are you saying that as much is done/has been done over the last 2 years to encourage good diet/exercise/vitamin D as has been done to encourage vaccine uptake? There is plenty the government could do in terms of marketing and legislation to encourage people to be healthier if they wanted to.

Covid is of course taking precedence. I'm no fan of this government. There is always more to be done but some people just indulge for whatever reasons. Stuff is so available. In a way governments can't win. On the one hand we don't want to be told what is good for us and then it's their fault when it all goes wrong. I suppose the old argument that moderation is best is still correct. By all means have a glass of wine or beer or a cake or biscuit but don't overdo it. Common sense is not that common  

[CosbehFox]

7 minutes ago, OrielCaziado said:

My mate was the same. Full of a head cold this time last week. Took a test Wednesday and in the clear. Took another one Friday and still okay. Felt loads better Come Friday night and went out and followed it up with a good weekend in various pubs. He text me yesterday to say he’s now took a test and is positive. He now doesn’t know whether to laugh or cry given his antics over the weekend. 

I had the same dilemma after Legia home match. Tested on the day of the game negative. Day after just a cough, tested, positive. Thankfully everyone I was in contact with bar my partner whom shared a bed with me tested negative or was recently infected with covid. 
 

It’s inevitable now if we socialise you accept there’s a decent chance you’ll get it. Just have to be sensible with it and tbf your mate has followed it by the book 

[danny.]

6 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

Covid is of course taking precedence. I'm no fan of this government. There is always more to be done but some people just indulge for whatever reasons. Stuff is so available. In a way governments can't win. On the one hand we don't want to be told what is good for us and then it's their fault when it all goes wrong. I suppose the old argument that moderation is best is still correct. By all means have a glass of wine or beer or a cake or biscuit but don't overdo it. Common sense is not that common  

But the two are linked. Lower BMI in obese patients is hugely important. People could take Vitamin D supplements with little impact to their lives or cost.

[StanSP]

What a mess. 

 

 

 

[CosbehFox]

The figure three days ago was 85 in hospital and 12 deaths (the speed of which that’s occurred you’d think there’s another issue there). Can’t find anything stating the figure now in hospital or deaths 
 

Would think that sums up the last two years that we are now waiting to see if we can get a sufficient enough number of people in hospital with omicron to get ourselves data from. 

Edited 21 December 2021 by Cardiff_Fox

[yorkie1999]

5 minutes ago, StanSP said:

What a mess. 

 

 

 

you have thought one of the main attributes to being chancellor of the exchequer is being able to count.

[Foxdiamond]

16 minutes ago, danny. said:

But the two are linked. Lower BMI in obese patients is hugely important. People could take Vitamin D supplements with little impact to their lives or cost.

I agree.