Coronavirus Thread

[filbertway]

33 minutes ago, Manini said:

I’ve heard this round and about certain circles too, but the lack of knowledge to think that unless the line is as clear as the top line you’re negative sent my head west, especially as the booklet warns you of feint lines as well. She’s going for a PCR now. 

Im juat picturing you all gasping and staring at her as the Curb your enthusiasm theme kicks in

[Guest Col city fan]

http://news.sky.com/story/covid-number-of-people-with-coronavirus-in-hospital-in-england-rises-to-9546-12505307

[Facecloth]

7 minutes ago, shade said:

Agreed, works on both sides of the argument with this one, I just want the truth, that's all.

Well not really. If someone provides you with irrefutable facts, your opinion on whether they are correct or not isn't valid. You're opinion on how you interpret those facts is absolutely valid.

 

For example if someone provides articles and scientific papers stating that the vaccine is 90% effective at cutting transmissions and symptoms, then responding with something you've read in facebook from you're mate who's a plumber that says it's 0% effective isn't a valid response and it's not opinion You're arguing facts, not opinions, and you're not providing any facts of your own. If you want to say that 90% effectiveness isn't enough for you, that's fine, you can say that, that's a totally valid opinion to have. It's you're opinion and nobody can say that you can't feel that way. They can certainly ask you why you have that opinion though, and they are also within their rights to put their opinion across to counter yours, and they are also within their rights to state they think you're crazy for having that opinion.

[MPH]

So my sister had Covid last December.. since then has been triple jabbed and now has covid again! She said it’s worse than the last time too! 
 

 

 

one of the unlucky ones!

[Manini]

26 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Im juat picturing you all gasping and staring at her as the Curb your enthusiasm theme kicks in

It was only the lack of live studio audience that made me think I wasn’t living in a sit com. One of those stories that will be told for decades now. 

[Guest Col city fan]

18 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Well not really. If someone provides you with irrefutable facts, your opinion on whether they are correct or not isn't valid. You're opinion on how you interpret those facts is absolutely valid.

 

For example if someone provides articles and scientific papers stating that the vaccine is 90% effective at cutting transmissions and symptoms, then responding with something you've read in facebook from you're mate who's a plumber that says it's 0% effective isn't a valid response and it's not opinion You're arguing facts, not opinions, and you're not providing any facts of your own. If you want to say that 90% effectiveness isn't enough for you, that's fine, you can say that, that's a totally valid opinion to have. It's you're opinion and nobody can say that you can't feel that way. They can certainly ask you why you have that opinion though, and they are also within their rights to put their opinion across to counter yours, and they are also within their rights to state they think you're crazy for having that opinion.

Well explained

The problem is what are ‘facts’?

Aren’t facts very often social constructs? 
(De-mystifying social statistics et al) 

A good lawyer will know how to take ‘facts’ and re-shape them, bend them, contextualise them and get the jury to look at something through a completely different lens. 
In the end I think it comes down to morals, values and beliefs

eg. Covid 19. Morally I feel responsible to not transmit it onto others. Why is that? Because I’ve been brought up to value other people’s health. And finally, I believe that it’s the right thing to do and that vaccination is the right thing to do

Without morals, values and beliefs, having ‘facts’ makes little difference. I genuinely think that most people ‘hand on heart’ would feel that vaccinations against C19 do help. But if they genuinely aren’t bothered about protecting others, it really won’t matter to them. If they aren’t altruistic in any way, it’s simply convenient to be apathetic toward the whole thing 

The pandemic, as I’ve stated before, has thrown up fascinating insights into morals, values and beliefs

I think it’s really shown the good, and the bad in people 

 

Edited 28 December 2021 by Col city fan

[WigstonWanderer]

Reasonable review of the latest stats from SA, UK, US and Australia. All sounds quite encouraging. My guess is that we’ll have another 6 months or so of highly disrupted lifestyles before the whole thing starts to settle down. That’s as long as some nastier variant doesn’t come along.

 

 

[yorkie1999]

I reckon the Chinese are infecting the swabs that everyone’s shoving up their noses. Fantastic business plan.

[shade]

4 hours ago, Facecloth said:

Well not really. If someone provides you with irrefutable facts, your opinion on whether they are correct or not isn't valid. You're opinion on how you interpret those facts is absolutely valid.

 

For example if someone provides articles and scientific papers stating that the vaccine is 90% effective at cutting transmissions and symptoms, then responding with something you've read in facebook from you're mate who's a plumber that says it's 0% effective isn't a valid response and it's not opinion You're arguing facts, not opinions, and you're not providing any facts of your own. If you want to say that 90% effectiveness isn't enough for you, that's fine, you can say that, that's a totally valid opinion to have. It's you're opinion and nobody can say that you can't feel that way. They can certainly ask you why you have that opinion though, and they are also within their rights to put their opinion across to counter yours, and they are also within their rights to state they think you're crazy for having that opinion.

yea fair enough, and if I presented you with facts that in my age group you're twice as likely to contract covid if you've had the vaccine, would you be equally as quick to embrace it?

[Facecloth]

5 minutes ago, shade said:

yea fair enough, and if I presented you with facts that in my age group you're twice as likely to contract covid if you've had the vaccine, would you be equally as quick to embrace it?

By the way, I wasn't stating any facts in my post, just using a hypothetical.

 

Have you got it? And have you got data that says you more likely to be ill from that covid you contracted and end up in hospital? I'm guessing not? 

 

You can still get and transmit covid after being jabbed, but you are much less likely to transmit it, and much less likely to be seriously ill. Plenty of data out there that proves that.

 

Me and Usain Bolt can both run, but with very different results 

[shade]

16 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

By the way, I wasn't stating any facts in my post, just using a hypothetical.

 

Have you got it? And have you got data that says you more likely to be ill from that covid you contracted and end up in hospital? I'm guessing not? 

 

You can still get and transmit covid after being jabbed, but you are much less likely to transmit it, and much less likely to be seriously ill. Plenty of data out there that proves that.

 

Me and Usain Bolt can both run, but with very different results 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1032859/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_45.pdf

 

That's the governments own report.

 

Scroll to page 22 and you'll see that for 40-49 years olds (my age bracket) and you can see that for every 100,000 double jabbed there were 2111 cases.

 

For every 100,000 unjabbed there were 933 cases.

 

Also for hospitalisations amongst my age bracket 40-49 it's almost 50% of people presenting to emergency care were vaccinated. Yes the vaccine is somewhat effective as the vaccinated represent approximately 75% of the 40-49 year old population, but double the chance of contracting and only a moderate reduction in the chance of being hospitalised?

 

Balancing that against potential long term risks of the vaccine and I decided to pass. I had delta a couple of weeks ago and the symptoms were mild, loss of taste and smell being the only thing that was uncomfortable to be perfectly honest.

[Stivo]

38 minutes ago, shade said:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1032859/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_45.pdf

 

That's the governments own report.

 

Scroll to page 22 and you'll see that for 40-49 years olds (my age bracket) and you can see that for every 100,000 double jabbed there were 2111 cases.

 

For every 100,000 unjabbed there were 933 cases.

 

Also for hospitalisations amongst my age bracket 40-49 it's almost 50% of people presenting to emergency care were vaccinated. Yes the vaccine is somewhat effective as the vaccinated represent approximately 75% of the 40-49 year old population, but double the chance of contracting and only a moderate reduction in the chance of being hospitalised?

 

Balancing that against potential long term risks of the vaccine and I decided to pass. I had delta a couple of weeks ago and the symptoms were mild, loss of taste and smell being the only thing that was uncomfortable to be perfectly honest.

the report that you quote starts with a statement that the raw data should not be used to estimate vaccine  effectiveness…

 

The office of statistics regulation has  criticised  the way that the figures are presented in it 

 

https://osr.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/communicating-data-is-more-than-just-presenting-the-numbers/

 

table 1 shows how the rate for unvaccinated 40-49 year olds is almost 3x higher if you use the ONS population estimates.

 

 

[Paninistickers]

How's anyone getting on with omnicron? 

 

I've had continual sniffles even after getting over the worst of it this time last week. Testing negative 

 

Just feels that the body has overreacted with snot to flush the fcker out but doesn't know to now turn the taps off

[Guest Kopfkino]

2 hours ago, shade said:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1032859/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_45.pdf

 

That's the governments own report.

 

Scroll to page 22 and you'll see that for 40-49 years olds (my age bracket) and you can see that for every 100,000 double jabbed there were 2111 cases.

 

For every 100,000 unjabbed there were 933 cases.

 

Also for hospitalisations amongst my age bracket 40-49 it's almost 50% of people presenting to emergency care were vaccinated. Yes the vaccine is somewhat effective as the vaccinated represent approximately 75% of the 40-49 year old population, but double the chance of contracting and only a moderate reduction in the chance of being hospitalised?

 

Balancing that against potential long term risks of the vaccine and I decided to pass. I had delta a couple of weeks ago and the symptoms were mild, loss of taste and smell being the only thing that was uncomfortable to be perfectly honest.

.

 

edit: Actually never mind, almost certainly not worth it

 

Edited 29 December 2021 by Kopfkino

[WigstonWanderer]

4 hours ago, Paninistickers said:

How's anyone getting on with omnicron? 

 

I've had continual sniffles even after getting over the worst of it this time last week. Testing negative 

 

Just feels that the body has overreacted with snot to flush the fcker out but doesn't know to now turn the taps off

Nice

Edited 29 December 2021 by WigstonWanderer

[Nalis]

5 hours ago, Paninistickers said:

How's anyone getting on with omnicron? 

 

I've had continual sniffles even after getting over the worst of it this time last week. Testing negative 

 

Just feels that the body has overreacted with snot to flush the fcker out but doesn't know to now turn the taps off

Excuse the image but mine is now phlegmy snot rather than a running nose. Had it for about half a week now and tested positive on Sunday.

[shade]

8 hours ago, Stivo said:

the report that you quote starts with a statement that the raw data should not be used to estimate vaccine  effectiveness…

 

The office of statistics regulation has  criticised  the way that the figures are presented in it 

 

https://osr.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/communicating-data-is-more-than-just-presenting-the-numbers/

 

table 1 shows how the rate for unvaccinated 40-49 year olds is almost 3x higher if you use the ONS population estimates.

 

 

Yes I'm aware of that, but that just reeks of "this doesn't fit the narrative, we must explain it away" to me.

 

There is increasing evidence from numerous countries that the vaccines make you more prone to infection.

 

https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/more-evidence-on-omicron-vaccine

[st albans fox]

10 hours ago, shade said:

yea fair enough, and if I presented you with facts that in my age group you're twice as likely to contract covid if you've had the vaccine, would you be equally as quick to embrace it?

 

9 hours ago, shade said:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1032859/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_45.pdf

 

That's the governments own report.

 

Scroll to page 22 and you'll see that for 40-49 years olds (my age bracket) and you can see that for every 100,000 double jabbed there were 2111 cases.

 

For every 100,000 unjabbed there were 933 cases.

 

Also for hospitalisations amongst my age bracket 40-49 it's almost 50% of people presenting to emergency care were vaccinated. Yes the vaccine is somewhat effective as the vaccinated represent approximately 75% of the 40-49 year old population, but double the chance of contracting and only a moderate reduction in the chance of being hospitalised?

 

Balancing that against potential long term risks of the vaccine and I decided to pass. I had delta a couple of weeks ago and the symptoms were mild, loss of taste and smell being the only thing that was uncomfortable to be perfectly honest.

apples and oranges 

those who are not double jabbed are massively less likely to take LFT tests and therefore a large number of asymptomatic cases are missed in that demographic.  In addition, they would also be less likely to report a positive LFT test if they had one, nor take a follow up PCR.   To say that being vaccinated makes you more likely to become infected is simply a nonsensical statement.  
 

And stats and facts are not actually the same thing

 

but you have my total agreement that if you had delta a few weeks ago then that counts as your booster or double jab …….. what are the potential long term risks of taking the vaccine btw and how do they compare with catching covid (although that also may be changing with omicron). 

[shade]

14 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

 

apples and oranges 

those who are not double jabbed are massively less likely to take LFT tests and therefore a large number of asymptomatic cases are missed in that demographic.  In addition, they would also be less likely to report a positive LFT test if they had one, nor take a follow up PCR.   To say that being vaccinated makes you more likely to become infected is simply a nonsensical statement.  
 

And stats and facts are not actually the same thing

 

but you have my total agreement that if you had delta a few weeks ago then that counts as your booster or double jab …….. what are the potential long term risks of taking the vaccine btw and how do they compare with catching covid (although that also may be changing with omicron). 

Valid, but you should provide proof of those statements about unvaccinated behaviours, I could equally claim the vaccine damages the natural immune response, with no proof, as you are doing.

 

There's abundant evidence of myocarditis and pericarditis, particularly amongst young men, from the vaccine (Yes I'm aware the chances of getting these are higher from covid than the vaccine), but still.

 

There's an interesting abstract in the American Heart Association (yes there's an expression of concern on it, it's only preliminary at the moment) which indicates the vaccine may possibly cause heart inflammation. It will probably turn out to be incorrect, but it's an interesting consideration.

 

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712

[st albans fox]

13 minutes ago, shade said:

Valid, but you should provide proof of those statements about unvaccinated behaviours, I could equally claim the vaccine damages the natural immune response, with no proof, as you are doing.

 

There's abundant evidence of myocarditis and pericarditis, particularly amongst young men, from the vaccine (Yes I'm aware the chances of getting these are higher from covid than the vaccine), but still.

 

There's an interesting abstract in the American Heart Association (yes there's an expression of concern on it, it's only preliminary at the moment) which indicates the vaccine may possibly cause heart inflammation. It will probably turn out to be incorrect, but it's an interesting consideration.

 

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712

It’s just an opinion but I’d be happy to put money on it being correct!

regarding potential side effects of the vaccine v effects of covid - omicron could well tip the scales here. If I was under 40, unvaccinated and omicron becomes completely dominant (and it genuinely is not nearly as virulent with way less impact on your organs), then I would definitely consider not getting vaccinated./boosted.  But would need a lot of data first! 

[shade]

6 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

It’s just an opinion but I’d be happy to put money on it being correct!

regarding potential side effects of the vaccine v effects of covid - omicron could well tip the scales here. If I was under 40, unvaccinated and omicron becomes completely dominant (and it genuinely is not nearly as virulent with way less impact on your organs), then I would definitely consider not getting vaccinated./boosted.  But would need a lot of data first! 

That's fair enough. Let's all hope that as is typical with viruses, Omicron is indeed the sign that it is getting more contagious but less severe.

[Soup]

14 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

It’s just an opinion but I’d be happy to put money on it being correct!

regarding potential side effects of the vaccine v effects of covid - omicron could well tip the scales here. If I was under 40, unvaccinated and omicron becomes completely dominant (and it genuinely is not nearly as virulent with way less impact on your organs), then I would definitely consider not getting vaccinated./boosted.  But would need a lot of data first! 

That's interesting, would you really consider it? Even if you couldn't have a cup of coffee outside at an empty bar on a warm day? I'm only asking as my freedom pass runs out on the the 25th February and that's the position I'll be in soon and  I don't want the 3rd shot. 

 

I'm over 40 btw but 10 times fitter and healthier than alot of under 40's I'd say.

Edited 29 December 2021 by Soup

[st albans fox]

15 minutes ago, Soup said:

That's interesting, would you really consider it? Even if you couldn't have a cup of coffee outside at an empty bar on a warm day? I'm only asking as my freedom pass runs out on the the 25th February and that's the position I'll be in soon and  I don't want the 3rd shot. 

 

I'm over 40 btw but 10 times fitter and healthier than alot of under 40's I'd say.

As I said, it depends on the data and I’m not sure how much there will be on the effects of omicron by early/mid feb. 

Of course there is also v little data available on booster side effects.  If you’re double vaxxed without any concerning side effects from that then I wouldn’t be concerned about the booster. 

 

assume you aren’t in the U.K. and that certainly complicates things for you.  No chance they will adjust legislation by the end of feb unless omicron is shown to be significantly more tepid than currently assessed over the next six weeks. I just don’t see many govts becoming less concerned until spring has really arrived. 

[shade]

36 minutes ago, Soup said:

That's interesting, would you really consider it? Even if you couldn't have a cup of coffee outside at an empty bar on a warm day? I'm only asking as my freedom pass runs out on the the 25th February and that's the position I'll be in soon and  I don't want the 3rd shot. 

 

I'm over 40 btw but 10 times fitter and healthier than alot of under 40's I'd say.

Out of interest what would be your cut off point, or point of exasperation? Would you take boosters indefinitely to keep your liberties?

[grobyfox1990]

8 minutes ago, shade said:

Out of interest what would be your cut off point, or point of exasperation? Would you take boosters indefinitely to keep your liberties?

Personally speaking, yes. Lockdown ground me down very badly. I will keep taking the booster shots for as long as it’s mandated.