Coronavirus Thread

[leicsmac]

20 minutes ago, shade said:

I'll try but I don't fully understand what you mean, you're saying you shouldn't question the integrity of people doing the science?

 

Is this valid critique, people doing the Pfizer trials falsified data, unblinded patients, employed inadequately trained vaccinators, and was slow to follow up on adverse events reported in Pfizer’s pivotal phase III trial.

 

https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635

No, I'm saying that you shouldn't question the integrity of the process that governs people doing the science, the same one that found out the very mistakes and malpractice you point out here. The same one that allows the world we live in today to function while clamping down on inaccurate and unethical practice as much as it can. The scientific method itself.

 

I think that you are doing that, but if you are not then I would be happy to hear a denial.

[Babylon]

26 minutes ago, shade said:

I'll try but I don't fully understand what you mean, you're saying you shouldn't question the integrity of people doing the science?

 

Is this valid critique, people doing the Pfizer trials falsified data, unblinded patients, employed inadequately trained vaccinators, and was slow to follow up on adverse events reported in Pfizer’s pivotal phase III trial.

 

https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635

No, he’s saying that fact checkers generally argue using what is agreed scientific facts, with peer reviewed data that has consensus. Facts that have followed an agreed process to reach that point. 
 

If Yeadon or Malone are correct and can prove it, then provide the data and allow people the chance to corroborate their opinion, through said agrees scientific process.

[shade]

23 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

No, I'm saying that you shouldn't question the integrity of the process that governs people doing the science, the same one that found out the very mistakes and malpractice you point out here. The same one that allows the world we live in today to function while clamping down on inaccurate and unethical practice as much as it can. The scientific method itself.

 

I think that you are doing that, but if you are not then I would be happy to hear a denial.

But don't you think it gets muddied, when groups like Facebook fact check the British Medical Journal for publishing the information about the whistleblower, or Robert Malone gets removed from twitter for pointing out potential issues with the current science?

 

There's medical practitioners having their licenses revoked for opposing the vaccines, I don't see how that process isn't corrupted?

Edited 2 January 2022 by shade

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, shade said:

But don't you think it gets muddied, when groups like Facebook fact check the British Medical Journal for publishing the information about the whistleblower, or Robert Malone gets removed from twitter for pointing out potential issues with the current science?

 

There's medical practitioners having their licenses revoked for opposing the vaccines, I don't see how that process isn't corrupted?

No, I think the process is not corrupted, is working as intended, as it always has done, in a way that me and you and everyone else *rely upon every day* to live our lives and provide more information about the world we live in.

 

We've had this discussion before - if these people currently going against the grain are right, then the scientific method will verify that they are. As it always has since it was conceived.

 

If you're going to doubt the process that led to you being able to type the messages you type (and yes, the same process is responsible for it and for the development of the covid vaccine and every other scientific advancement), I'm going to need more than this as a legit basis, I'm afraid.

[Farrington fox]

Big drop in cases today. Further restrictions are now unlikely. Thank goodness. Though it’s disappointing they’re forcing kids back into classroom masking. 

[Will1981]

12 minutes ago, Farrington fox said:

Big drop in cases today. Further restrictions are now unlikely. Thank goodness. Though it’s disappointing they’re forcing kids back into classroom masking. 

There is a big drop in cases every Sunday 

[Guest Col city fan]

29 minutes ago, Farrington fox said:

Big drop in cases today. Further restrictions are now unlikely. Thank goodness. Though it’s disappointing they’re forcing kids back into classroom masking. 

I think it’s essential kids are wearing masks in classrooms

I know of tons of examples, locally, of kids being Covid positive and passing it onto adults

Unless controlled, schools are a harbour of bacteria and viruses 

[Babylon]

21 minutes ago, Will1981 said:

There is a big drop in cases every Sunday 

He we had this last time when they said “look at the drops Saturday and Sunday, proves it’s not exponential. 
 

We’re now pushing 200,000 cases rather than 50,000 and that’s with hardly any tests available. 

[HighPeakFox]

7 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

I think it’s essential kids are wearing masks in classrooms

I know of tons of examples, locally, of kids being Covid positive and passing it onto adults

Unless controlled, schools are a harbour of bacteria and viruses 

What do you do Col? Sounds like you're a medical man...

[grobyfox1990]

13 minutes ago, Babylon said:

He we had this last time when they said “look at the drops Saturday and Sunday, proves it’s not exponential. 
 

We’re now pushing 200,000 cases rather than 50,000 and that’s with hardly any tests available. 

Hardly any tests available -  what..?!

[Otis]

4 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Hardly any tests available -  what..?!

I thought that 😂

 

Testing

Virus tests conducted

Latest data provided on 30 December 2021

•  
  Daily
  1,507,040
• Last 7 days
   

  9,850,680

[Sol thewall Bamba]

23 minutes ago, Babylon said:

He we had this last time when they said “look at the drops Saturday and Sunday, proves it’s not exponential. 
 

We’re now pushing 200,000 cases rather than 50,000 and that’s with hardly any tests available. 

1.5 million ish a day is "hardly any"? 

[Otis]

26 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

I think it’s essential kids are wearing masks in classrooms

I know of tons of examples, locally, of kids being Covid positive and passing it onto adults

Unless controlled, schools are a harbour of bacteria and viruses 

Schools have been closed for the last fortnight. 

[grobyfox1990]

2 minutes ago, Otis said:

I thought that 😂

 

Testing

Virus tests conducted

Latest data provided on 30 December 2021

•  
  Daily
  1,507,040
• Last 7 days
   

  9,850,680

LOL. Imagine if shade had said something as mental as that. ‘How many times have we been over this’ and ‘when will you EVER understand?!’ Spring to mind

[shade]

28 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

I think it’s essential kids are wearing masks in classrooms

I know of tons of examples, locally, of kids being Covid positive and passing it onto adults

Unless controlled, schools are a harbour of bacteria and viruses 

I hate this, not based in any science or debating the value of masks when not worn perfectly, I just loathe the idea of children in their formative years having to sit all day with masks over their face. I can't overstate how insidious I find it.

[Otis]

1 minute ago, grobyfox1990 said:

LOL. Imagine if shade had said something as mental as that. ‘How many times have we been over this’ and ‘when will you EVER understand?!’ Spring to mind

Plus, back up your statement, not conjecture. etc.

 

I'm sure Babylon will admit he was mistaken. 

[grobyfox1990]

6 minutes ago, shade said:

I hate this, not based in any science or debating the value of masks when not worn perfectly, I just loathe the idea of children in their formative years having to sit all day with masks over their face. I can't overstate how insidious I find it.

Personally I don’t see why it’s a big deal. They’re kids, there’s no way they’re going to listen and actually keep their masks on all day. And if it stops transmission even by a small amount I think that’s great. But then wearing a mask doesn’t bother me at all

[shade]

Another interesting chart generated from the Ontario government website showing covid cases increasing faster in vaccinated individuals when the Omicron variant became dominant, is it possible Omicron isn't just vaccine escaping but also vaccine enabled?

 

 

Would be good to have a data whizz step in here, I think someone here said they dealt in data?

Edited 2 January 2022 by shade

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

There has been a shortage of test kits available for sure, I went to 7 different pharmacies before I found one. I think people must be hoarding them, lateral flows, of course. 

[Babylon]

32 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Hardly any tests available -  what..?!

 

27 minutes ago, Otis said:

I thought that 😂

 

Testing

Virus tests conducted

Latest data provided on 30 December 2021

•  
  Daily
  1,507,040
• Last 7 days
   

  9,850,680

 

25 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

1.5 million ish a day is "hardly any"? 

Have you tried ordering or collecting LFT’s recently? Demand is outstripping supply. There are areas you can’t even get PCR’s in the UK constantly.

[Babylon]

11 minutes ago, shade said:

Another interesting chart generated from the Ontario government website showing covid cases increasing faster in vaccinated individuals when the Omicron variant became dominant, is it possible Omicron isn't just vaccine escaping but also vaccine enabled?

 

 

Would be good to have a data whizz step in here, I think someone here said they dealt in data?

Sigh… and the boosted numbers? I don’t know how many times people need to say this, but immunity wanes. Unless boosted, fully vaccinated isn’t really a thing any more unless it was very recent. And as per UK stats, they put a big note saying don’t try to draw those things from it as vaccinated and unvaccinated are likely to have a different attitude to testing and lifestyles. The controlled testing is where you draw the comparisons and conclusions.

[FoxesDeb]

On 01/01/2022 at 18:35, shade said:

The use of 'qualified' in a derogatory manner is definitely misplaced in this instance. He was wrong about the second wave, but SAGE and numerous government advisors have been wrong, a lot. Including when they claimed that there would be 7000 deaths a day if restrictions were lifted in the summer. 

 

You're welcome to disagree with his views on this pandemic, but shouldn't try and discredit him by implying he isn't qualified. He is a LOT more qualified than almost all government advisors on this particular topic.

 

Mike Yeadon is qualified in diseases like COPD and asthma, neither of which are viruses nor transmittable viruses. I can't find anywhere that says he is either an epidemiologist nor a virologist, so I think your claim that he is more qualified than almost all the government advisors is untrue. 

21 hours ago, shade said:

Almost every single one of the debunks is either arguing semantics or is largely incorrect, itself. It also worries me that journalists are fact checking scientists, it's frankly bizarre and people on both sides of the argument are opposed to the "fact checkers"

 

https://www.thejournal.ie/meet-the-team-thejournal-ie-factcheck-bios-4267874-Oct2018/

I'm interested in which of these you think are incorrect please? 

10 hours ago, shade said:

Yeadon literally spent his life working on respiratory diseases, it's his field, that's not a bold faced lie.

 

Robert Malone isn't the "self proclaimed" inventor, his name is literally on the nine original mRNA vaccine patents, which were originally filed in 1989 (including both the idea of mRNA vaccines and the original proof of principle experiments) and RNA transfection. He has close to 100 peer-reviewed publications which have been cited over 12,000 times. He is the President of the Global Covid Summit, an organization of over 16,000 doctors and scientists analysing COVID pandemic research and treatment.

 

The deaths wasn't a straight out lie, but I did mistype, apologies, this is what I meant (remember this is before Omicron)...

 

 

 

As above, respiratory ailments but not viruses, transmittable diseases, nor vaccines. 

6 hours ago, shade said:

If you've listened to all of it and have taken nothing from it but that (assuming you ahvent just picked the quotes from a debunk site), then this conversation is sadly pointless.

I've asked you several times, and I'll ask nicely again. Please can you confirm your sources that 'show all the evidence that the vaccine doesn't work', and also explain what you mean when you say it has a negative effect? 

25 minutes ago, shade said:

I hate this, not based in any science or debating the value of masks when not worn perfectly, I just loathe the idea of children in their formative years having to sit all day with masks over their face. I can't overstate how insidious I find it.

Masks have been proven to help control infections, so why would you be against them? 

[st albans fox]

11 minutes ago, shade said:

Another interesting chart generated from the Ontario government website showing covid cases increasing faster in vaccinated individuals when the Omicron variant became dominant, is it possible Omicron isn't just vaccine escaping but also vaccine enabled?

 

 

Would be good to have a data whizz step in here, I think someone here said they dealt in data?

A proportion (probably not too small a proportion) of unvaccinated individuals will not test themselves  - hence that line should be steeper 

 

It’s feasible that being double vaccinated is of little protection against omicron infection if jabs more than a few months ago. 

 

what that graph won’t show you is boosted as presumably too early in Ontario 

 

[Sly]

Lateral flow test are the new loo roll

[shade]

4 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

A proportion (probably not too small a proportion) of unvaccinated individuals will not test themselves  - hence that line should be steeper 

 

It’s feasible that being double vaccinated is of little protection against omicron infection if jabs more than a few months ago. 

 

what that graph won’t show you is boosted as presumably too early in Ontario 

 

Is it also feasible that vaccine efficacy doesn't just wane to zero, but it actively becomes negative after a period of time and makes double vaccinated people more likely to catch covid? It may explain the increasingly desperate push for boosters and fourth shots?