Coronavirus Thread

[shade]

15 minutes ago, z-layrex said:

And I don't want you to think my resentmentt of what the unvaccinated have done to me and my colleagues (totally avoidably) somehow means we treat them any differently, we don't of course we don't, but I'm so tired of seeing people suffer and die for no reason like this. If making their life so intolerable they get it is what it takes at this point, so be it.

I think there has to be a middle ground we can reach though because not everyone will succumb to the punishments. I mean personally, I would happily wear some kind of badge to identify to people that I'm unvaccinated so they can avoid me if they want, or maybe even better, give me the option to pay health insurance to cover hospital bills if needed (taper the payments by age, weight, smoker, underlying health conditions etc). 

 

As a hypothetical question where would you stop making their life intolerable, is there a cut off point? Because I wouldn't go out and would lose my job before I got the vaccine. Would you go to fines? I would pay them. Prison sentences? I would possibly leave my children depending on the length of time. Isolation camps, or god forbid, extermination?

 

[shade]

6 minutes ago, BertFill said:

The virus is what’s most likely to be coming for the unvaccinated. Probably a new variant, itself made more likely by the fact that not enough people are vaccinated. And maybe not all the variants will be as comparatively undeadly as Omicron.

1. The virus (delta) came for me, I defeated it with barely any symptoms because I've lived my life in anticipation of that moment.

2. We're 90% vaccinated in this country, you would be better off worrying about Africa if you're scared of variants.

3. It's highly unlikely that a virus evolves to be more deadly, that goes against basic epidemiology.

[BertFill]

4 minutes ago, shade said:

The virus (delta) came for me, I defeated it with barely any symptoms because I've lived my life in anticipation of that moment.

Eh?

 

4 minutes ago, shade said:

It's highly unlikely that a virus evolves to be more deadly, that goes against basic epidemiology.

They don’t evolve ‘to do’ anything. They just evolve. The virus doesn’t know whether it’s deadly or not.

 

10 minutes ago, shade said:

Would you go to fines? I would pay them. Prison sentences? I would possibly leave my children depending on the length of time. Isolation camps, or god forbid, extermination?

Really? Get a grip.

[z-layrex]

Nvm.

Edited 5 January 2022 by z-layrex

[Buce]

[shade]

36 minutes ago, z-layrex said:

Nvm.

I read it before the edit and absorbed it. I'm sorry you feel that way.

[SpacedX]

52 minutes ago, shade said:

I think there has to be a middle ground we can reach though because not everyone will succumb to the punishments. I mean personally, I would happily wear some kind of badge to identify to people that I'm unvaccinated so they can avoid me if they want, or maybe even better, give me the option to pay health insurance to cover hospital bills if needed (taper the payments by age, weight, smoker, underlying health conditions etc). 

 

As a hypothetical question where would you stop making their life intolerable, is there a cut off point? Because I wouldn't go out and would lose my job before I got the vaccine. Would you go to fines? I would pay them. Prison sentences? I would possibly leave my children depending on the length of time. Isolation camps, or god forbid, extermination?

 

Christ, it's HarryDC with a dictionary. 

[Dahnsouff]

Not sure what direction this thread had taken, but I am scared....

[WigstonWanderer]

4 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Christ, it's HarryDC with a dictionary. 

Ah you’re back! Thank God!

[Robo61]

14 hours ago, Parafox said:

To start, I am by no means a supporter of the current Tory mob and very few of any previous ones. 

I agree that they have failed to invest in public services but it was the previous Labour gov that decimated the social care system and cut funding to local authorities that pay for things like care homes. The Tories simply never re-invested or addressed the need for social care in all it's forms. They were quite happy to ignore that the NHS was pretty much being "overwhelmed" every winter because people had nowhere to be discharged to as care homes were underfunded and full and people couldn't be discharged. This was a result of Labour policy but was never subsequently addressed and still isn't, despite what the Gov say.

It feels to me like the Gov of whatever persuasion, see care homes as place where people sit and dribble into their food until they die and are not worth spending on.

 

Have you got evidence for your first claim,  searching the internet I can only find figures for the period 2004 - 2010,  but that showed net current expenditure for local Goverrnment rising by around 10% and capital expenditure by significantly more.  Where I do agree though is that one of the failures of the Blair years was not to come up with a fully funded care package fit for a country with an ever rising age demographic.  However the Tories have promised to come up with package at each of the last 4 elections and despite winning all four nothing really has changed and I don't expect the funding promised for 2024 to come to pass as there will still be a need for money earmarked within the NHS and is wholy inadequate anyway.

[z-layrex]

13 minutes ago, shade said:

I read it before the edit and absorbed it. I'm sorry you feel that way.

I felt it was a bit too personal.

[Farrington fox]

14 hours ago, Parafox said:

From experience, I find this hard to believe.

If someone turns up at A&E in a taxi/family car they'll be left to wait in the waiting room before being booked in by a clerical staff member. This will be their first encounter with any NHS personnel and that in itself takes time as you effectively in a queue. They book them in and then send the electronic form to the assessment staff who then decide on a priority code. This takes some time, sometimes over 4 hours to be clinically assessed depending on workload.

I just can't see how the clinical assessment team (manned by experienced paramedics with support from a duty doctor) in any ambulance control centre would advise someone with symptoms of cardiac chest pains or a stroke would suggest they make their own way to hospital. A suspected stroke or heart attack is a priority one response in all UK ambulance services and a crew or solo response paramedic will be sent as as one is available, usually within 8 minutes.

Sensationalist press reporting once again.

That was my experience back in 2016. My treatment and care at Nottingham City Hospital was exemplary. From when my symptoms started in the early hours of a Friday morning it took less than 3 hours to get me to hospital, perform an angioplasty and transfer to a cardiology ward. Would the process be as time efficient now I wonder?  

[kingfox]

Point the blame at whoever, at the end of the day this has been going on for two years, yet some people still can’t fathom out the domino effect that this virus causes.

 

All this “Learn to live with the virus” bollocks, we are seeing what happens when you let it run rife, certain sectors hit a crisis because too many staff are forced into isolation. To me that’s not learning to live with the virus, that’s just a complete and utter mess, which you can’t let be the norm. 
 

As certain media outlets said over the weekend, we could be forced into a lockdown by default, regardless of the situation in hospitals. 
 

Our method of basically giving up is bullshit.

[WigstonWanderer]

7 minutes ago, kingfox said:

Point the blame at whoever, at the end of the day this has been going on for two years, yet some people still can’t fathom out the domino effect that this virus causes.

 

All this “Learn to live with the virus” bollocks, we are seeing what happens when you let it run rife, certain sectors hit a crisis because too many staff are forced into isolation. To me that’s not learning to live with the virus, that’s just a complete and utter mess, which you can’t let be the norm. 
 

As certain media outlets said over the weekend, we could be forced into a lockdown by default, regardless of the situation in hospitals. 
 

Our method of basically giving up is bullshit.

Same thing now happening in Australia 

[dsr-burnley]

12 minutes ago, kingfox said:

Point the blame at whoever, at the end of the day this has been going on for two years, yet some people still can’t fathom out the domino effect that this virus causes.

 

All this “Learn to live with the virus” [deleted], we are seeing what happens when you let it run rife, certain sectors hit a crisis because too many staff are forced into isolation. To me that’s not learning to live with the virus, that’s just a complete and utter mess, which you can’t let be the norm. 
 

As certain media outlets said over the weekend, we could be forced into a lockdown by default, regardless of the situation in hospitals. 
 

Our method of basically giving up is [deleted]

But if we try and contain the virus, does that mean we have to remain under lockdown restrictions for ever, or is there a time when it can be "let out"?  According to the current death rates, and the ones from south Africa, it appears that omicron is less dangerous than flu on an individual basis and the only current major public danger is that it's all happening at once.  A lockdown of another couple of years to spread out the dates when people catch it, is possible, in theory at least.  But stopping it completely?

[Buce]

@Parafox:

 

West Midlands ambulance service are appealing for recently retired ambulance crews to rejoin.

 

Thought you might be interested.

[Dunge]

I’d like to see five pages of KingFox in the Blue corner with “lock ‘em all up” vs Shade in the Red corner with “let ‘em all die”.

[Parafox]

19 minutes ago, Buce said:

@Parafox:

 

West Midlands ambulance service are appealing for recently retired ambulance crews to rejoin.

 

Thought you might be interested.

Thanks. I was in the East Mids service so I would have to have their accreditation as EMAS doesn't match theirs. My professional Paramedic registration has now expired after I retired18 mths ago and I would need to be fully re-assessed and trained up in all the new procedures and drugs that have come into use in the meantime. I don't fancy going back on 12 hour shifts 5 days/nights a week tbh.

 

[Bert]

[Zear0]

9 minutes ago, Bert said:

Thank god, having recently gone through the current process it's daft.

 

Tested positive on a LFT, couldn't get a PCR test appointment for 2 days (fun discussion that was...), then when I get the PCR test, on the basis of it potentially being required for travel requirements etc. it resets your isolation date against the PCR and not the original LFT test extending your isolation period within the app.  Granted, if you're just sensible and isolate until 2 negative LFTs, it's a bit moot, but the above is what the guidelines say to do.  Stupid.

[Countryfox]

Sir Pete was spouting off in the paper the other day ..  please tell me I've got this wrong but is the stupid t0sser moaning that we shouldn't be focusing on boosters and should have been getting more people to have their first two jabs ??? ..  love to know his ideas on that one and also why HE hasn't done anything about it.  

 

See what you think ...

 

 

[Leicester_Loyal]

Yeah it's the NHS management fault that people aren't getting the vaccine.

 

Basically he can't just blame it on religion so chooses to point the finger elsewhere.

[dsr-burnley]

1 hour ago, Parafox said:

Thanks. I was in the East Mids service so I would have to have their accreditation as EMAS doesn't match theirs. My professional Paramedic registration has now expired after I retired18 mths ago and I would need to be fully re-assessed and trained up in all the new procedures and drugs that have come into use in the meantime. I don't fancy going back on 12 hour shifts 5 days/nights a week tbh.

 

That's been a lot of the problem with the NHS and why they haven't been able to produce sensible plans to increase capacity by say 20,000 beds for a short term spike.  Because they are too much in love with regulation and perfection. 

 

They have their idea of what is needed to be the perfect paramedic, or nurse, or whatever, and I dare say they may be right.  But they go on to say that the likes of Parafox are not perfect and so are deemed to be no use at all.  They need to get their heads round the idea that someone who was up-to-date 18 months ago is still very, very useful today; and a very, very useful paramedic - even if not perfect - is a lot better than having nobody at all.

 

They've been the same with nurses, even for injections.  Does someone who was a nurse for 30 years and retired a couple of years ago, really need a 21-module training course to teach her how to inject vaccinations?  Of course not.  But the NHS top brass think she does.

[leicsmac]

5 hours ago, shade said:

I hate this response, sorry, I also think it's incredibly insidious. If you're talking about Janet on Facebook saying the vaccine has microchips in it, or everyone is going to die, then they're just fools not sociopaths.

 

If you're talking about Dr Robert Malone and Dr Peter McCullough, two experts in their relative fields, with absolutely nothing to gain, talking out against the vaccine (even if they're wrong), then I hate what you've just said, sorry.

 

I notice you don't hold "your side" to the same standards and call Dr Hilary, Lorraine and Spandeu Ballet guy sociopaths when they spread misinformation, that could scare people, or any of the countless other times the established narrative has proven to be "wrong".

As HPF mentioned, I'm not talking about either the Facebook crowd or the experts speaking their piece.

 

The FB crowd are misguided, as you say.

The experts clearly have knowledge and their piece carries weight, but not so much as the scientific consensus - it would verify what they were saying if it did.

 

No, the sociopaths are the ones breeding this misinformation in the first place when they know it to be misinformation, for the purposes of their own power or simply because they want to watch the world burn.

 

5 hours ago, shade said:

It's absolutely the right word, I see the sentiment that guides his utterances. I hear what people say about the unvaccinated, both in the media and at the school gates. I watch experts that question the established science getting shut down.

 

Insidious is absolutely the right word. You will claim I'm being hyperbolic, or dramatic, but I fear what's coming for the unvaccinated far more than I fear the virus.

I'm sorry, but I have to say, through simple numbers, that this is unfounded.

 

This virus has already taken more lives in two years than every act of governmental war or oppression in the last ten (or perhaps longer).

Malaria (just one disease) took more lives in the 20th Century than all of the wars in it combined (and they did a hell of a lot).

Climate change has the likely potential to result in hundreds of millions of people dead or displaced if it is not addressed. To say nothing of other possible natural disasters of large scale.

 

Nature has proved, time and again, that it is a better and more efficient killer of people than humans can be. So why fear humans more?

Answering my own question, I can sort of understand the idea that natural threats are more "abstract" and therefore perhaps more difficult to place feelings on, but they are bigger threats than humans are. That is a matter of mathematical certainty, so while I'm certainly not going to belittle such fears (humans do do nasty stuff to each other) I can't help but feel that such fears have less of a foundation.

 

And, as I've said before, if we are divided in the way that we are now with Covid when facing down the next crisis, nature might not be so forgiving as it was this time.

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, Countryfox said:

Sir Pete was spouting off in the paper the other day ..  please tell me I've got this wrong but is the stupid t0sser moaning that we shouldn't be focusing on boosters and should have been getting more people to have their first two jabs ??? ..  love to know his ideas on that one and also why HE hasn't done anything about it.  

 

See what you think ...

 

 

the only reason soulsby isnt vilified more on FT is because he's a fan!

 

what a ridiculous point he's making

 

what have the council done over the past six months to get that percentage up ?