Coronavirus Thread

[dsr-burnley]

6 hours ago, MPH said:

 

except of course having a birthday doesn’t mess with your respiratory, cardiac and neurological systems 

Good spot, but I think most of us already knew that.  The point is that if more than 5% of the population have had a positive test in the past 28 days, there will be a lot of deaths where it is just coincidence that they had covid and it didn't contribute to the death.  Just as if more than 5% of the population had a birthday in the last three weeks, we must expect a lot of deaths of people who have had birthdays recently and it won't be because of the birthday.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, orangecity23 said:

Re: the video LiB posted. 2 seconds on Wikipedia and:

Oh look. Once again, Republican, Trump supporting, climate change denier - it's funny how all the same kind of people keep cropping up in all these things isn't it? Just like that Great Barrington declaration. It's almost like the whole Anti Vax movement is tied up in Q-Anon, 911 Truthers and any number of other bollocksy US based conspiracy theories that all come from the same bloody place. By happy coincidence, I just happened to have finished watching this interesting video (stick with it, it's not actually all about Flat Earth, it's a wider look at the mechanics behind all of these conspiracies and their methods tying it all together).

 

 

It's a scam and a cult. It wears all the tropes they all bloody wear.

 

Upcoming Apocalyptic threat? Great Reset

Threat to children? They're coming for your kids! Doctors being paid blood money to jab kiddies! Quick, write a cardboard sign and stand by the roundabout.

The power they are fighting? Evil Pfizer / Governments / nWo

Stats disprove your argument? Not collected correctly / faked

 

 

...and not only is it bollocks, it's dangerous bollocks too - because it breeds division and mistrust in the very mechanism we use to understand our universe, right when unity and trust are what we need to avert coming problems. Much bigger problems.

[MPH]

1 hour ago, dsr-burnley said:

Good spot, but I think most of us already knew that.  The point is that if more than 5% of the population have had a positive test in the past 28 days, there will be a lot of deaths where it is just coincidence that they had covid and it didn't contribute to the death.  Just as if more than 5% of the population had a birthday in the last three weeks, we must expect a lot of deaths of people who have had birthdays recently and it won't be because of the birthday.

 

i work on a Covid floor at my local hospital and all I can say is that our floor is 100 % for people who have covid and are desperately sick from it. We are losing people all the time.   Other floors are being condensed and mixed together ( Oncology and cardiac patients on the same ward now) and several are being filled with Covid patients again just as it was  with the delta variant. The patients are much sicker than at any time before Covid was recognized.It’s horrifying. The administrators were meeting today to decide if they should start cancelling all  elective surgeries  again. ( hips knees, backs, gall bladders, etc) anyway  I do see what you are saying and,  well , let’s just say that over here in the states hospitals get federal funding for looking after patients with Covid, so we all know what that means. So there is some of that going on but nowhere near on the scale some far right wing media would have you believe over here.   I mean I’m seeing it with my own eyes- I’m not reading about it in a newspaper or on a news channel / website. It’s also highly unlikely that the hospital I work at stands alone and stands out in  how Covid is panning out and  how the other co-morbidities are being effected by it.  I liken Covid to a magnifying glass. If you already have heart issues, Covid can effect you very badly.

[Jon the Hat]

9 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

This is a more direct link to the interactive table I was trying to highlight a few days ago showing a comparison of excess deaths with reported deaths from Covid, country by country. The previous link involved scrolling down and might have been confusing. It’s worth having a play with it.
 

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid#estimated-excess-mortality-from-the-economist
 

Take a look at at India, South Africa and even China for instance. The reported deaths are far fewer than the excess deaths. Also, US worth a look.

 

For the world as a whole, excess deaths look like being around 4 times the reported figure of ~ 5m at around 20m. By comparison, I believe the 1918 pandemic toll was estimated to be between 50m and 100m, but in a much smaller population. Still, quite a significant toll considering all the measures that have been taken, vaccines, modern medicine generally, etc, and of course we haven’t finished yet.

 

As stated in the accompanying description, there is a great deal of uncertainty in the data, but this is thought to be the best guide available according to ourworldindata.org.

How many of those excess deaths are as a result of non-covid but covid response reasons?  Deferred surgery, people too scared to visit their Dr, or loneliness in care homes?  It can't be ignored.  Absent other evidence you would have to a assume a decent chunk.

[WigstonWanderer]

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

How many of those excess deaths are as a result of non-covid but covid response reasons?  Deferred surgery, people too scared to visit their Dr, or loneliness in care homes?  It can't be ignored.  Absent other evidence you would have to a assume a decent chunk.

Yes I’m sure there is some of that, though I’d argue that these are also victims of the pandemic, just not directly. Also, lives would have been saved by motor accidents that never happened due to less cars on the road during lockdowns, and no doubt a host of other offsets.

 

In any case, as far as I can see, all the measures in the UK (which does seem to have good records and trusted, reputable data sources and analysis) seem to be in rough agreement. This includes excess deaths, ONS deaths due to Covid, and even the died within 28 days of infection stat.

Edited 27 January 2022 by WigstonWanderer

[dsr-burnley]

7 hours ago, MPH said:

 

i work on a Covid floor at my local hospital and all I can say is that our floor is 100 % for people who have covid and are desperately sick from it. We are losing people all the time.   Other floors are being condensed and mixed together ( Oncology and cardiac patients on the same ward now) and several are being filled with Covid patients again just as it was  with the delta variant. The patients are much sicker than at any time before Covid was recognized.It’s horrifying. The administrators were meeting today to decide if they should start cancelling all  elective surgeries  again. ( hips knees, backs, gall bladders, etc) anyway  I do see what you are saying and,  well , let’s just say that over here in the states hospitals get federal funding for looking after patients with Covid, so we all know what that means. So there is some of that going on but nowhere near on the scale some far right wing media would have you believe over here.   I mean I’m seeing it with my own eyes- I’m not reading about it in a newspaper or on a news channel / website. It’s also highly unlikely that the hospital I work at stands alone and stands out in  how Covid is panning out and  how the other co-morbidities are being effected by it.  I liken Covid to a magnifying glass. If you already have heart issues, Covid can effect you very badly.

Obviously there are still people becoming desperately sick from covid (unvaccinated mostly, presumably?) but there must also be hospital admissions of people who have covid and are not sick from it.  If 5% of the population has covid, then some of those 5% will have other conditions that need hospital treatment.  I suppose the elective hip-knee=back-gall bladder people won't be allowed in to hospital if they have covid, which would reduce the "random" number of covid admissions.  But in the UK they have quoted various official figures around the 40% mark for covid admissions, or people catching it in hospital, where covid was not the reason for admission.

[Ric Flair]

Forgive me for being a little ignorant here but given how rife Omicron has been at spreading, the chances of unvaccinated people below the age of 50 having not had covid yet and therefore if they do get it in the coming months and then end up in ICU is surely very low now is it not? So at what point do people need to stop going nuts about those who don't want to get a vaccination that they may well already have t cell protection over anyway by now?

 

The majority of us have had all the jabs out there and caught it and are as protected as can be, there's a small minority that aren't but do we really need to keep pushing and pushing? I might be wrong but there comes a point where its less important surely? 

[Finnaldo]

7 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Forgive me for being a little ignorant here but given how rife Omicron has been at spreading, the chances of unvaccinated people below the age of 50 having not had covid yet and therefore if they do get it in the coming months and then end up in ICU is surely very low now is it not? So at what point do people need to stop going nuts about those who don't want to get a vaccination that they may well already have t cell protection over anyway by now?

 

The majority of us have had all the whacks out there and caught it and are as protected as can be, there's a small minority that aren't but do we really need to keep pushing and pushing? I might be wrong but there comes a point where its less important surely? 

 

Pretty much my view on it, I’ve had both doses and the booster, but in my eyes it’s up to folk whether they have it or not now. Of course I’m not the one who ultimately have to deal with it should that decision have consequences which I appreciate, but the level of vitriol makes me uncomfortable and the ‘othering’ is extremely concerning. By all means fight misinformation and lead by your own example, but I don’t think mandated intervention will help much at all and hinders us all.

[MPH]

2 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

Obviously there are still people becoming desperately sick from covid (unvaccinated mostly, presumably?) but there must also be hospital admissions of people who have covid and are not sick from it.  If 5% of the population has covid, then some of those 5% will have other conditions that need hospital treatment.  I suppose the elective hip-knee=back-gall bladder people won't be allowed in to hospital if they have covid, which would reduce the "random" number of covid admissions.  But in the UK they have quoted various official figures around the 40% mark for covid admissions, or people catching it in hospital, where covid was not the reason for admission.

all Covid patients are centralized and put on the same floors so they don’t  share it with those who don’t have Covid. If someone is sick enough to be be hospital with a comorbity, Covid is going to make them worse- this is the pattern we are seeing: such is the sheer volume of Covid patients. People who might usually  be admitted are not being. This is the unfortunate reality of the severity of what’s going on.  There are not enough beds. Simple as. They are doing this thing here called a virtual hospital where you have paramedics/ nurses will come to your house once or twice a day to check your vital signs and you’ll also have a zoom call with a Dr once or twice a day. That would be the group you are talking about where they might have an issue  and might have Covid but are lot ‘ sick enough’ to take up a Covid or a regular bed. Drs are really having to make the decision as to who is sick enough for the beds.

[dsr-burnley]

6 minutes ago, MPH said:

all Covid patients are centralized and put on the same floors so they don’t  share it with those who don’t have Covid. If someone is sick enough to be be hospital with a comorbity, Covid is going to make them worse- this is the pattern we are seeing: such is the sheer volume of Covid patients. People who might usually  be admitted are not being. This is the unfortunate reality of the severity of what’s going on.  There are not enough beds. Simple as. They are doing this thing here called a virtual hospital where you have paramedics/ nurses will come to your house once or twice a day to check your vital signs and you’ll also have a zoom call with a Dr once or twice a day. That would be the group you are talking about where they might have an issue  and might have Covid but are lot ‘ sick enough’ to take up a Covid or a regular bed. Drs are really having to make the decision as to who is sick enough for the beds.

That's bad.  Is it because of low vaccine take-up, do you think?  Are they mostly unvaccinated?

[Stivo]

The ONS have released a statement on the misleading 17k figure.

 

https://blog.ons.gov.uk/2022/01/26/to-say-only-17000-people-have-died-from-covid-19-is-highly-misleading/

 

 

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Stivo said:

The ONS have released a statement on the misleading 17k figure.

 

https://blog.ons.gov.uk/2022/01/26/to-say-only-17000-people-have-died-from-covid-19-is-highly-misleading/

 

 

... of course its highly misleading.

 

Being highly misleading so as to convince people to mistrust the scientific consensus for nefarious purposes is the point.

[MPH]

18 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

That's bad.  Is it because of low vaccine take-up, do you think?  Are they mostly unvaccinated?

It’s fair to say that the unvaccinated make the biggest chunk of our patient population. However the next group of sickest people are those that  have been vaccinated but have not had Covid before.  The antibodies from Covid seem to be more effective than the vaccines against Covid, if that make sense  so you’ll fight off Covid far better the second time if you had Covid before than if you’ve not had Covid and catch the virus after being vaccinated. Of course you have to factor in how it can effect others around you too. Off to work now for me! Have a good day

[Wolfox]

14 minutes ago, Stivo said:

The ONS have released a statement on the misleading 17k figure.

 

https://blog.ons.gov.uk/2022/01/26/to-say-only-17000-people-have-died-from-covid-19-is-highly-misleading/

 

 

That was torn apart on ‘more or less’ (a great podcast for stats geeks)

 

Talk about using stats to push your agenda…. The stat means nothing !

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0013r9w

 

 

[WigstonWanderer]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Forgive me for being a little ignorant here but given how rife Omicron has been at spreading, the chances of unvaccinated people below the age of 50 having not had covid yet and therefore if they do get it in the coming months and then end up in ICU is surely very low now is it not? So at what point do people need to stop going nuts about those who don't want to get a vaccination that they may well already have t cell protection over anyway by now?

 

The majority of us have had all the jabs out there and caught it and are as protected as can be, there's a small minority that aren't but do we really need to keep pushing and pushing? I might be wrong but there comes a point where its less important surely? 

I think you have a point here. I was reading that 97.5% (might have been 98.5%) of the UK population now have antibodies for Covid, either from vaccination or infection, so the time for vaccine mandates is probably over for any practical purpose. It might even be counterproductive by providing a focal point for assorted nutters.

Edited 27 January 2022 by WigstonWanderer

[SpacedX]

https://www.ft.com/content/0e63541a-8b6d-4bec-8b59-b391bf44a492#comments-anchor

 

From last March. Newham - the covid triangle, and the forgotten areas ravaged by the virus that post pandemic are set to remain overlooked, underfunded and become 'invisible' yet again. 

[Corky]

Tested positive today, very mild symptoms (slightly bunged up). Hope it won't lead to anything serious (triple vaccinated) and can test negative after a few days  

 

So annoying.

[Zear0]

14 minutes ago, Corky said:

Tested positive today, very mild symptoms (slightly bunged up). Hope it won't lead to anything serious (triple vaccinated) and can test negative after a few days  

 

So annoying.

Glad to hear you're not too bad. Prunes might help. 

[Soup]

3 doses for the little ones. 

 

https://nypost.com/2022/01/26/kids-under-4-will-get-3-doses-of-covid-19-vaccine-fauci/

 

 

[FoxesDeb]

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/howard-stern-meat-loaf-anti-vax-covid-vaccine-1290644/

[Legend_in_blue]

26 minutes ago, Soup said:

3 doses for the little ones. 

 

https://nypost.com/2022/01/26/kids-under-4-will-get-3-doses-of-covid-19-vaccine-fauci/

 

 

 

Because everything this guy says is 100% scientific truth.  How dare the "fringe epidemiologists" challenge his scientific narrative.

Edited 27 January 2022 by Legend_in_blue

[Soup]

1 minute ago, Legend_in_blue said:

 

Because everything this guy says is 100% scientific truth.  How dare the "fringe epidemiologists" dare challenge his scientific narrative.

A truly horrible man 

[Unabomber]

25 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/howard-stern-meat-loaf-anti-vax-covid-vaccine-1290644/

Wow sounds like a bit of an idiot. 

[fox_favourite]

3 hours ago, Corky said:

Tested positive today, very mild symptoms (slightly bunged up). Hope it won't lead to anything serious (triple vaccinated) and can test negative after a few days  

 

So annoying.

That is what I had a slight bunged up then night sweats and feeling tired came next. Nothing too bad. I hope it’s the same for you. 

[Corky]

I had a strong headache last night which seems to have gone, now I've got a fairly mild cold, certainly had worse in the past.

 

If this is the worst it gets I'll take it.