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filbertway

Coronavirus Thread

By filbertway, in General Chat

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Otis

Otis

Posted
Posted
On 25/01/2023 at 03:31, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-64347085

 

China have got this so wrong, and it's terrible to see the consequences.

 

As an aside, I wonder if any of the "lab leak" adherents earlier in this thread still think China had a hand in loosing this upon the world, given what's happening to them now?

Wondering about your opinion now given today's news from the FBI.

 

Are you now a lab leak adherent?

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
Just now, Otis said:

Wondering about your opinion now given today's news from the FBI.

 

Are you now a lab leak adherent?

My opinion is described in detail a few posts above this one. :)

 

And just to be clear, by "lab leak adherents" in that post, I was referring to those who thought it was released deliberately by the Chinese - I figured the context was pretty clear there. And, just to be clear on that, that is still bollocks, in case you were wondering.

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Otis

Otis

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

My opinion is described in detail a few posts above this one. :)

 

And just to be clear, by "lab leak adherents" in that post, I was referring to those who thought it was released deliberately by the Chinese - I figured the context was pretty clear there. And, just to be clear on that, that is still bollocks, in case you were wondering.

Spot on... I hope 😀

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grobyfox1990

grobyfox1990

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, StanSP said:

 

 

I reckon Hancock and his people have leaked these texts. There will be no consequence to him for anything, this is the British people we are talking about, we'll let it slide. And the longer he can keep his name in the headlines and stay relevant the more $$$ flows into his bank account for his new career.

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dsr-burnley

dsr-burnley

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Fox in the North said:

 

Where's the scandal?  As I remember it, herd immunity was toyed with and then decisively rejected in favour of strict lockdown.  Is it scandalous that Johnson asked questions about whether it was the best policy?  What was the "great herd immunity scandal" anyway?

Edited by dsr-burnley
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Greg2607

Greg2607

Posted
Posted

I'll be honest, I love a bit of government bashing.... but in this instance (and admittedly, I haven't read all 100,000 messages!) I think this is a bit of a storm in a teacup. 

 

The whole government was dealing with a huge amount of unknown variables, in a situation that no-one across the world was prepared for and trying to find their way through it in the best way possible. 

 

I suspect if any of you are in WhatsApp groups at work and trying to figure things out... if they were released to the general population, there would be room for criticism in hindsight and with a microscopic lens put on every interaction.  

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RobHawk

RobHawk

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Tommy G said:

Hancock is generally a walking disaster. I think she signed an NDA so I suspect he can sue her arse but this is a PR disaster for him and probably most of the cabinet at the time (if it wasn't already rock bottom)

She's already spouting the 'national interest' line. 

 

I have zero time for Matt Hancock, but this is downright sleazy from the journalist. Which I'm also not surprised about because she's always come across as a complete tit to me. 

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Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, RobHawk said:

She's already spouting the 'national interest' line. 

 

I have zero time for Matt Hancock, but this is downright sleazy from the journalist. Which I'm also not surprised about because she's always come across as a complete tit to me. 

 

She's also the partner of Richard Tice, leader of Reform UK (ex-Brexit Party) and anti-lockdown campaigner.....which makes it pretty stupid of Hancock to get her to help him with his book and to hand her his private communications.

 

And the very same day, we have Bozza Johnson saying he's minded to oppose Sunak's new agreement on the N. Ireland Protocol and that the govt should be ready to confront the EU.

If this doesn't allow him to challenge Sunak as Tory leader, I wonder if Reform UK will fancy an "entertaining, charismatic" new leader with lovely tousled blond hair to lead a campaign for a "real Brexit", no lockdowns and an end to migrant boats? :ph34r:

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fox_up_north

fox_up_north

Posted
Posted

Mixed feelings on the leaks. They don't exactly tell me anything I didn't know but if they speed up calls for an inquiry then I'm happy with that. 

 

Yes, she's proper done him over there and is hiding behind the "journalist" veil but she was writing his book. Is there a public interest? Yes, if it is used as evidence at inquiry but we all know why she's done it. 

 

I'm not even sure Hancock will want this to go to court as who knows what else turns up. 

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SpacedX

SpacedX

Posted
Posted
On 01/03/2023 at 13:32, Otis said:

Wondering about your opinion now given today's news from the FBI.

 

Are you now a lab leak adherent?

No.

 

Apologies for butting in because the question wasn't directed at me, but a couple of observations here. The consilience of the scientific community is that it resulted from a natural spillover, but it could equally be the result of research-related activity, such as a lab leak or even a fieldwork incident. That is also accepted by science. And to clarify, both myself and @leicsmac have consistently entertained such a possibility on this forum. I can refer you back to the relevant posts. However, there simply is no equivocal evidence either way, just largely historical precedent and circumstantial evidence. There have however been a multitude of studies which indicate a natural origin for Sars-CoV-2 and this data/literature has steadily grown in volume since the outbreak. Conversely, there is not one paper offering evidence that a lab leak was responsible to have passed peer review because the is no substantive data to support it. Additionally, although the DOE have backed the FBI intelligence assessment, they have a 'low confidence level. According to guidance from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence: “A low confidence level generally indicates that the information used in the analysis is scant, questionable, fragmented, or that solid analytical conclusions cannot be inferred from the information, or that the IC has significant concerns or problems with the information sources.” Again, this does not mean that the possibility of a lab leak should be ruled out. 

 

Mac and myself amongst others have called out those that have referred to a lab leak as verified fact, or as Mac says, those claiming that it was intentionally released by the Chinese government or was manufactured in a lab. 

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Otis

Otis

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, Line-X said:

No.

 

Apologies for butting in because the question wasn't directed at me, but a couple of observations here. The consilience of the scientific community is that it resulted from a natural spillover, but it could equally be the result of research-related activity, such as a lab leak or even a fieldwork incident. That is also accepted by science. And to clarify, both myself and @leicsmac have consistently entertained such a possibility on this forum. I can refer you back to the relevant posts. However, there simply is no equivocal evidence either way, just largely historical precedent and circumstantial evidence. There have however been a multitude of studies which indicate a natural origin for Sars-CoV-2 and this data/literature has steadily grown in volume since the outbreak. Conversely, there is not one paper offering evidence that a lab leak was responsible to have passed peer review because the is no substantive data to support it. Additionally, although the DOE have backed the FBI intelligence assessment, they have a 'low confidence level. According to guidance from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence: “A low confidence level generally indicates that the information used in the analysis is scant, questionable, fragmented, or that solid analytical conclusions cannot be inferred from the information, or that the IC has significant concerns or problems with the information sources.” Again, this does not mean that the possibility of a lab leak should be ruled out. 

 

Mac and myself amongst others have called out those that have referred to a lab leak as verified fact, or as Mac says, those claiming that it was intentionally released by the Chinese government or was manufactured in a lab. 

Thanks for clarification 👍 

I wonder if we'll ever know the true source of the outbreak. 

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SpacedX

SpacedX

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Otis said:

Thanks for clarification 👍 

I wonder if we'll ever know the true source of the outbreak. 

Indeed. It's a very strong possibility that we won't. Pinpointing the site of a spillover is tricky and becomes increasingly challenging with time. Also, matching the genetics of those initially infected by Alpha with sequences derived from animals to isolate the host is a very difficult task. In terms of the lab leak possibility, as relationships between China and the West continue to deteriorate, the situation continues to be so politicised, and whilst Beijing refuses to cooperate the necessary transparency to allow an independent forensic investigation into research activities at WIV, we have nothing more than circumstantial supposition.  

 

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dsr-burnley

dsr-burnley

Posted
Posted

I thought the main reason there is no evidence from the lab that the leak came from there, was because the lab had destroyed their records and/or refused to let the WHO have them.  That, to me, is the main ground for suspicion - we know the lab was experimenting with coronaviruses in different species, and the evidence that could have cleared them (or not) has been destroyed.  

 

Naturally it may be simply paranoia by the Chinese government that caused that, or it could have been that they did have something to hide. 

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