Coronavirus Thread

[SpacedX]

6 minutes ago, Otis said:

No. Again i did not say they were the same.

That reply was not addressed to you though. Also, you have cherry picked half a sentence which is completely out of context. 

 

Unsurprising, since you have previous form. 

[Otis]

25 minutes ago, Line-X said:

 

1 hour ago, Otis said:

Although apparently the flu is currently causing more deaths than Covid at the moment. 

The vaccination programme has caused covid related death rates to plummet in addition to hospitalisations, despite case rates being at 20,000 per day and rising. 

 

This is entirely possible. Do you have a legitimate source?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/22/flu-pneumonia-deaths-now-ten-times-higher-covid/

[yorkie1999]

3 minutes ago, Line-X said:

To remind you, here's what you actually said...

 

You can do whatever you want, but it's a different virus demanding a different response and healthcare strategies. What's the point? However I would point out that repeatedly the same people have made the dangerous and erroneous claim that "Covid-19 is no worse than the flu". 

 

What I would also add, it that the exit wave/ possible third wave of Delta colliding with flu season is a concern, which is one of the reasons why relaxing restrictions in July and waiting any longer could make the situation worse - extending the exit wave into the autumn when schools are back and the flu season is getting under way. None of this is without risks. If infection rates keep rising and that wall of immunity is slow to kick in there are many in the population that are susceptible and this could place increasing pressure on local health services. 

 

The vaccination programme has caused covid related death rates to plummet in addition to hospitalisations, despite case rates being at 20,000 per day and rising. 

 

This is entirely possible. Do you have a legitimate source?

 

Whilst both can be contracted through close contact from respiratory droplets, Covid-19 is more likely to spread through airborne transmission. Also the incubation period is completely different. The discrepancy between these incubation periods is because of the way each virus attaches itself to the cells and means instead of the 2-3 days you would associate with influenza, it could be up to a fortnight with coronavirus. Covid-19 can be carried asymptomatically throughout this period and transmitted through superspreading events. Furthermore, since they are different viruses, contrary to your claim, they behave differently in the body and the comorbidities differ. Patients with covid-19 had almost 19 times the risk for acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) than did patients with influenza and more than twice the risk for myocarditis, deep vein thrombosis, pulmonary embolism, intracranial hemorrhage, acute hepatitis/liver failure, bacteremia, and pressure ulcers.

 

Covid-19 patients were five times as likely to die as flu patients (21% versus 3.8% of patients). During both waves, hospital stays of covid-19 patients were almost three times as long as those of flu patients, and they were twice as likely to be admitted to an intensive care unit which has meant that the clinical burden is far higher. 

 

Covid-19 patients had a higher risk of respiratory complications than flu patients: twice the risk of pneumonia, 1.7 times the risk of respiratory failure, 19 times the risk of ARDS, and 3.5 times the risk of pneumothorax. The risk of some acute non-respiratory complications, such as sepsis and renal and cardiovascular complications, was also higher among covid-19 patients.

 

There is also emerging evidence that antibodies for influenza last longer than SARS-CoV-2, although it is too early to draw conclusions. Add to this, Long Covid to contend with - although the risks of this are far from fully understood.

 

Yes, there is little preexisting immunity to the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Through vaccinations and previous infections, a portion of the population has some immunity to influenza, which helps limit the number of cases we see each year.

 

SARS-CoV-19 will continue to be a global issue until vaccinations worldwide are able to tame it. The more people that are infected, the more variants will emerge. These may contain mutations that are capable of evading vaccines. Coronavirus will never be eradicated because it exists on many vectors, but in some parts of the world it will in time be controlled, driven down and eliminated. 

 

You are correct in everything you say but it's all nit picking. Because we have almost no resistance to covid, the way it attacks our bodies is going to be faster, more deadly and harder to control and consequently all the figures are going to be amplified. It's obvious that if our immune systems can't handle covid then it's going to be 10 times, or whatever, more virulent than flu, but the point is that they are similar virus' in how they attack and what they do to our bodies.

[yorkie1999]

17 minutes ago, Otis said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/22/flu-pneumonia-deaths-now-ten-times-higher-covid/

Does it matter? When you're lying on your death bed having caught either, are you really going to be satisfied that you caught the one that you were 10 times less likely to catch.

[SpacedX]

1 minute ago, Otis said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/22/flu-pneumonia-deaths-now-ten-times-higher-covid/

 Reassuring - and as I said, we can attribute this to the extraordinary momentum of the vaccination programme since Covid cases are currently increasing rapidly and could conceivably rise to as many as 100,000 a day post relaxation. 

 

As I said, it may indeed be best to weather the exit wave this July and August as opposed to it coinciding with the new academic year and the onset of flu season. 

 

Those that berate others for wishing to continue distancing and mask wearing given the prevalence of poorly ventilated and confined workspaces, frankly bemuse me.

 

 

3 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

You are correct in everything you say but it's all nit picking. Because we have almost no resistance to covid, the way it attacks our bodies is going to be faster, more deadly and harder to control and consequently all the figures are going to be amplified. 

That isn't my point. Your contention that SAR-CoV-2 attacks the body in the same way as influenza is incorrect. The comorbidities differ as does the susceptibility. The lack of resistance is a separate issue - I am talking about the mechanism by which they attach to the cell. SARS-CoV-2 uses the angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) as a receptor (in order to gain entry into cells), subsequently infecting bronchial epithelial cells and lung cells. Influenza is a different disease, caused by a different virus and of course there are three types. The infection is caused by a member of the ribonucleic acid family and affects mainly the nose, throat, bronchi and, occasionally, the lungs. This means that although all respiratory illnesses can be very serious to the vulnerable, by nature of the virus, a percentage of infected covid patients may go on to develop severe, bilateral pneumonia, multiple organ failure, and death. 

[Super_horns]

Air lines have said they will still enforce masks when travelling .

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-07-05/ryanair-and-easyjet-passengers-must-wear-face-masks-even-after-july-19

Edited 6 July 2021 by Super_horns

[filbertway]

2 minutes ago, Super_horns said:

Air lines have said they will still enforce masks when travelling .

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-07-05/ryanair-and-easyjet-passengers-must-wear-face-masks-even-after-july-19

They'll probably offer people an optional £40 extra if they don't want to wear a mask. And also sell cheap ones for £8 if you forget one/it breaks.

[Otis]

7 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Reassuring - and as I said, we can attribute this to the extraordinary momentum of the vaccination programme since Covid cases are currently increasing rapidly and could conceivably rise to as many as 100,000 a day post relaxation. 

 

As I said, it may indeed be best to weather the exit wave this July and August as opposed to it coinciding with the new academic year and the onset of flu season. 

 

Those that berate others for wishing to continue distancing and mask wearing given the prevalence of poorly ventilated and confined workspaces, frankly bemuse me.

Totally agree 

[yorkie1999]

2 minutes ago, Line-X said:

 Reassuring - and as I said, we can attribute this to the extraordinary momentum of the vaccination programme since Covid cases are currently increasing rapidly and could conceivably rise to as many as 100,000 a day post relaxation. 

 

As I said, it may indeed be best to weather the exit wave this July and August as opposed to it coinciding with the new academic year and the onset of flu season. 

 

Those that berate others for wishing to continue distancing and mask wearing given the prevalence of poorly ventilated and confined workspaces, frankly bemuse me.

 

 

That isn't my point. Your contention that SAR-CoV-2 attacks the body in the same way as influenza is incorrect. The comorbidities differ as does the susceptibility. The lack of resistance is a separate issue - I am talking about the mechanism by which they attach to the cell. SARS-CoV-2 uses the angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) as a receptor (in order to gain entry into cells), subsequently infecting bronchial epithelial cells and lung cells. Influenza is a different disease, caused by a different virus and of course there are three types. The infection is caused by a member of the ribonucleic acid family and affects mainly the nose, throat, bronchi and, occasionally, the lungs. This means that although all respiratory illnesses can be very serious to the vulnerable, by nature of the virus, a percentage of infected covid patients may go on to develop severe, bilateral pneumonia, multiple organ failure, and death. 

Again, you're nit picking, they are both virus' that attack the respiratory system and are both contracted the same way and the outcome is the same, relatively. Spanish flu didn't occasionally attack the lungs, it attacked the lungs full stop. And there are 4 types of influenza.

[Otis]

11 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Does it matter? When you're lying on your death bed having caught either, are you really going to be satisfied that you caught the one that you were 10 times less likely to catch.

No. I'm just pointing out Covid deaths are currently very low. 

[StanSP]

Anyone under 18 or fully vaccinated only has to self-isolate if they test positive. If someone else tests positive in their household, they don't have to... 

Edited 6 July 2021 by StanSP

[yorkie1999]

9 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Anyone under 18 or fully vaccinated only has to self-isolate if they test positive. If someone else tests positive in their household, they don't have to... 

So what happens to the under 18 year old?

[SpacedX]

31 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Again, you're nit picking, they are both virus' that attack the respiratory system and are both contracted the same way and the outcome is the same, relatively. Spanish flu didn't occasionally attack the lungs, it attacked the lungs full stop. And there are 4 types of influenza.

??? I was not comparing Covid-19 to Spanish Flu (H1N1) - and neither were you based upon the section that I quoted you on and responded to, rather, current seasonal influenza of which there are three types, A, B and C. A and B are responsible for outbreaks and epidemics. Also, as I explained, both are not necessarily contracted or to use your own words, "spread" in the same way and to reiterate, contrary to your claim, they behave differently in the body. 

 

The fourth type of influenza virus, type D, primarily infects cattle and not humans. 

 

And your point about nit picking? 

Edited 6 July 2021 by Line-X

[filbertway]

37 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Anyone under 18 or fully vaccinated only has to self-isolate if they test positive. If someone else tests positive in their household, they don't have to... 

This was the only part that didn't make any sense to me. Seems on the face of it to be a common sense decision to me.

[yorkie1999]

25 minutes ago, Line-X said:

??? I was not comparing Covid-19 to Spanish Flu (H1N1) - and neither were you based upon the section that I quoted you on and responded to, rather, current seasonal influenza of which there are three types, A, B and C. A and B are responsible for outbreaks and epidemics. Also, as I explained, both are not necessarily contracted or to use your own words, "spread" in the same way and to reiterate, contrary to your claim, they behave differently in the body. 

 

The fourth type of influenza virus, type D, primarily infects cattle and not humans. 

 

And your point about nit picking? 

When did seasonal come into it? I was using the example of Spanish flu because of the similarities of virulence between that flu virus and the covid virus to give you an instance of where the flu and covid are for all intensive purposes the same thing in how they are spread, contracted and the effects they have on the human body. Both are respiratory virus' that attack cells within our respiratory system that are contracted through inhaling , both are deadly because of our lack of immunity to them and both kill due to lung infection and no doubt both can leave long lasting after effects. There probably are examples of somebody contracting one of them through a slightly different medium, but that would be nit picking,

[Buce]

8 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

When did seasonal come into it? I was using the example of Spanish flu because of the similarities of virulence between that flu virus and the covid virus to give you an instance of where the flu and covid are for all intensive purposes the same thing in how they are spread, contracted and the effects they have on the human body. Both are respiratory virus' that attack cells within our respiratory system that are contracted through inhaling , both are deadly because of our lack of immunity to them and both kill due to lung infection and no doubt both can leave long lasting after effects. There probably are examples of somebody contracting one of them through a slightly different medium, but that would be nit picking,

 

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

Again, you're nit picking, they are both virus' that attack the respiratory system and are both contracted the same way and the outcome is the same, relatively. Spanish flu didn't occasionally attack the lungs, it attacked the lungs full stop. And there are 4 types of influenza.

 

Speaking of nit-picking, the plural of virus is viruses not virus'.

 

Sorry, I have my pedantic head on today.

[SpacedX]

5 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

When did seasonal come into it? I was using the example of Spanish flu because of the similarities of virulence between that flu virus and the covid virus to give you an instance of where the flu and covid are for all intensive purposes the same thing in how they are spread, contracted and the effects they have on the human body. Both are respiratory virus' that attack cells within our respiratory system that are contracted through inhaling , both are deadly because of our lack of immunity to them and both kill due to lung infection and no doubt both can leave long lasting after effects. There probably are examples of somebody contracting one of them through a slightly different medium, but that would be nit picking,

 I think you may have meant to say "to all intents and purposes" - although the possibility of intensive care is very real for both. 

 

You are twisting your responses. This isn't what you originally replied. 

 

To clarify, in response to my posts you said this...

 

3 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

They're obviously not the same but they are similar in the way they spread and consequently what part of the body they affect and how they attack it , it's just covid is a new virus that humans have no defense mechanism against and flu has been around for years so we have acquired a level of immunity to it. In ten years time, will covid be a problem to us? doubt it and  I'm fairly sure that if covid had been amongst us for a long time and flu was a new virus, the roles would be reversed. 

and this...

 

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

You are correct in everything you say but it's all nit picking. Because we have almost no resistance to covid, the way it attacks our bodies is going to be faster, more deadly and harder to control and consequently all the figures are going to be amplified. It's obvious that if our immune systems can't handle covid then it's going to be 10 times, or whatever, more virulent than flu, but the point is that they are similar virus' in how they attack and what they do to our bodies.

Doesn't sound to me like you were talking about Spanish Influenza and you make no mention of it - rather the flu, which is of course largely seasonal. Perhaps you should have specified as you did in another post? 

 

And to reiterate, the way that SARS-CoV-19 "spreads" and to some extent is contracted, differs from the flu as does the way it behaves in the body. 

[yorkie1999]

12 minutes ago, Line-X said:

 I think you may have meant to say "to all intents and purposes" - although the possibility of intensive care is very real for both. 

 

You are twisting your responses. This isn't what you originally replied. 

 

To clarify, in response to my posts you said this...

 

and this...

 

Doesn't sound to me like you were talking about Spanish Influenza and you make no mention of it - rather the flu, which is of course largely seasonal. Perhaps you should have specified as you did in another post? 

 

And to reiterate, the way that SARS-CoV-19 "spreads" and to some extent is contracted, differs from the flu as does the way it behaves in the body. 

?? It spreads in exactly the same way.

[SpacedX]

12 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

?? It spreads in exactly the same way.

Actually no - and apologies if you think that this is "nit picking". As I explained, It is contracted in "similar ways", through respiratory droplets and like flu, close proximity to or direct with others, but SARS-CoV-19 has been demonstrated to have a greater rate of airborne transmission because the aerosols differ. Influenza spreads primarily through larger respiratory droplets which do not float as easily and are more likely to fall to the ground within 1-2 m of the source. An airborne disease is more transmissible overall. For example, aerosols produced by infectious person A could build up in a small, poorly ventilated room over time. Person A might depart the room but leave their aerosols behind. If person B were then to arrive in the room and spend time there, they could potentially become infected through breathing in the contaminated air. Case studies suggest indoor airborne transmission has spread SARS-CoV-2 to distances beyond two metres from the infectious person although an identified case of 15 metres is thought to have been the cause of secondary infections amongst a church congregation.

 

Also, although both COVID-19 and the flu can be transmitted by presymptomatic, asymptomatic and mildly symptomatic carriers, as I mentioned earlier, incubation is completely different and much longer than the flu, meaning that that asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic transmission is thought to have caused a significant number of infections worldwide in relation to flu. This actually links back to what we know about airborne transmission in comparison with influenza, because when someone is not coughing, they may produce fewer droplets but still emit many aerosols. Also as I mentioned earlier, SARS-CoV-19 has been observed to have more superspreading events than flu and is more contagious in vulnerable populations and age groups.

 

In terms of microbiology, the entry and exit mechanisms of SARS-CoV-19 and the flu virus and virulence factors differ markedly, but that's another conversation. 

 

As you said earlier, as a novel virus, that means there’s a lot we don’t know about it — how it spreads, how it infects people, how it causes damage in the body, how the immune system responds to it. Flu, on the other hand, has been around for a long time, so scientists and doctors know a lot about it, including the best way to respond to and control the illness. 

 

[The Horse's Mouth]

Line X cried when Hancock resigned 

[dsr-burnley]

Would it be possible for either of you to accept that flu and coronaviruses are different diseases and are not directly comparable, they do have similarities and if we want to compare coronavirus with anything it is a lot more relevant to compare it with flu rather than (say) tetanus?

[Izzy]

29 minutes ago, Line-X said:

In terms of microbiology, the entry and exit mechanisms of SARS-CoV-19 and the flu virus and virulence factors differ markedly, but that's another conversation. 

And it's a conversation we all want to have mate

 

 

[FoxesDeb]

12 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Line X cried when Hancock resigned 

 

2 minutes ago, Izzy said:

And it's a conversation we all want to have mate

 

 

You lot can take the piss, but @Line-Xhas been absolutely invaluable throughout this whole thing trying to inform people of the facts. Most of the rest of us gave up ages ago and are relying on Darwins theory to do it's stuff instead 

[SpacedX]

22 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Line X cried when Hancock resigned 

...with laughter. 

[Izzy]

6 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

 

You lot can take the piss, but @Line-Xhas been absolutely invaluable throughout this whole thing trying to inform people of the facts. Most of the rest of us gave up ages ago and are relying on Darwins theory to do it's stuff instead 

@Line-Xis a legend of this thread no doubt. 
 

But he’s taken the piss out of me many times previously and knows it’s all in good spirits