Coronavirus Thread

[st albans fox]

just a rumour (but form the same source that signposted the traffic light system for travelling abroad) …… self isolation for close contacts will be ditched from next week (rather than mid august) for double vaccinated 

 

Whether that’s in conjunction with advice  to take LFT’s every couple days not heard ….

 

the point here is that there is so much virus out there now that it’s impossible to run an economy with the policy in place 

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

just a rumour (but form the same source that signposted the traffic light system for travelling abroad) …… self isolation for close contacts will be ditched from next week (rather than mid august) for double vaccinated 

 

Whether that’s in conjunction with advice  to take LFT’s every couple days not heard ….

 

the point here is that there is so much virus out there now that it’s impossible to run an economy with the policy in place 

Yep, now for the UK it is clearly balls to the wall and hope that the vaccine as it stands does enough to stop the NHS from bowing and then breaking.

 

It should do enough, the odds are in favour given current evidence, but it's still rather a gamble with the highest of stakes.

[HighPeakFox]

18 hours ago, enmac said:

Doesn't he understand that it's not about him?

No, he doesn't. 

 

18 hours ago, Parafox said:

I like country music. Is that worthy of berating me?

Since you ask... 

[stripeyfox]

1 hour ago, z-layrex said:

A ventilator went off in my face at work, I've now tested positive on the flow test. Feel pretty crappy too, coughing and shivering all night. Waiting for PCR courier test.

take care mate. all the best

 

[dsr-burnley]

1 hour ago, HighPeakFox said:

Cases in schools everywhere now. Please don't tell me that woolly directives and gambling on herd immunity is a good idea. It's just a game to the people at the top, much like WWI was. 

What would be a good idea?  I can only think of three possible outcomes: 1 - loads of cases in schools.  2 - close the schools indefinitely.  3 - vaccinate all the children, compulsorily.  Do you have any alternatives?

 

My own view is that options 2 and 3 do more harm than option 1.

[Carl the Llama]

22 hours ago, Father Ted said:

Absolutely. I’ve had a year of vile and disgusting abuse thrown at me, despite having a hidden disabilities card. I will be giving volleys and volleys of abuse back.

Hang about.  Do you have a hidden disability or just a card saying you do?  Because if it's the former then surely you'd be grateful for the people wearing masks to protect others who can't like yourself, I'd suggest you reconsider what exactly it is that's upsetting you here.

[z-layrex]

23 hours ago, Father Ted said:

Absolutely. I’ve had a year of vile and disgusting abuse thrown at me, despite having a hidden disabilities card. I will be giving volleys and volleys of abuse back.

Why do you have such a problem with me wearing a mask to protect you and others around you? I've been walking around unknowingly positive for at least a couple days, the fact I always wear a mask on the train and in shops might have stopped me giving it to someone else?

[enmac]

3 hours ago, Otis said:

We also have the highest rate of testing in the world.

And one of the highest vaccinated population. 

Having checked positivity rates, UK is not the highest worldwide. So I'll give you that. However, rates are rising within this country, no question. I doubt that there have been dramatic increases in testing within this country to explain any else but increases spreading. 

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, dsr-burnley said:

What would be a good idea?  I can only think of three possible outcomes: 1 - loads of cases in schools.  2 - close the schools indefinitely.  3 - vaccinate all the children, compulsorily.  Do you have any alternatives?

 

My own view is that options 2 and 3 do more harm than option 1.

My point wasn't about closing schools, it was that what's going on in schools is a clear sign of a failure of policy decision and direction. 

 

Thus my answer is option 4 - that those in charge stop gambling with our health and basing their policies on hideous eugenics. 

[Leicester_Loyal]

Don't know why people keep arguing over what others are doing, if you want to wear a mask please carry on, if you don't take it off.

[CosbehFox]

22 minutes ago, enmac said:

Having checked positivity rates, UK is not the highest worldwide. So I'll give you that. However, rates are rising within this country, no question. I doubt that there have been dramatic increases in testing within this country to explain any else but increases spreading. 

Going back to my point about testing - it's less about not admitting there's an increasing rate of cases but rationalising the situation. 

 

We were not testing people free of symptoms last year - therefore we might be a lot lower in the curve/peak than we actually know if comparing to last year.

 

If the actual rates of cases last year are anywhere near this year, it kind of takes the edge off the transmission of variants improving and puts the current situation more favourable. 

 

We have never got to grips really with how many people have had COVID without symptoms. We can't judge the level of testing. 

 

As ever the hospitalisation rate is key now - that's shown a slow down on growth rate but it's still growing. 

[Dunge]

20 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

My point wasn't about closing schools, it was that what's going on in schools is a clear sign of a failure of policy decision and direction. 

 

Thus my answer is option 4 - that those in charge stop gambling with our health and basing their policies on hideous eugenics. 

Out of interest, would yours be a “wait and see” approach to complete opening up or a more permanent implementation of some restrictions on “normal” life? If it’s the former, what would you be waiting and seeing for?

 

If you’re stating this to be hideous eugenics, can I take it from that that you won’t accept any responsibility on the human immune system to overcome the disease, and that we all have to be protected from it forever?

[HighPeakFox]

12 minutes ago, Dunge said:

Out of interest, would yours be a “wait and see” approach to complete opening up or a more permanent implementation of some restrictions on “normal” life? If it’s the former, what would you be waiting and seeing for?

 

If you’re stating this to be hideous eugenics, can I take it from that that you won’t accept any responsibility on the human immune system to overcome the disease, and that we all have to be protected from it forever?

Point 1 - by relying on personal choice/common sense, I think it's perfectly clear that not enough people can be relied upon to act for the common good, so at the very least I'd prefer them to have vaccinated more widely before blurring the lines and prickteasing us all about the relaxing of things - and said prickteasing has been done knowingly, getting hopes and expectations up, so that when the time comes, some have already made their minds up, and the government can blame us for their contradictory, self-serving rubbish.

 

Point 2 - I'm no doctor, but I know plenty that work in the medical profession, and none that I've spoken to know the long term chances of the immune system and its ability to adapt/counter/grow resilient to Covid and its many variants. I find the phrasing of your (well intended, no doubt) question rather sinister - because if we simply rely on the human immune system to overcome the disease (which we don't yet know is actually possible) then it is basically a game of 'let the weak/old/unlucky die, who cares that much? - it's the 'natural' order', which I don't think you are saying or thinking (I do not want to either accuse you or be accused of such) but I think it's what the Old Etonian/Harrovian etc mindset is - let the plebs take the bullets, we'll be 35 miles behind the front line. Oh, and please vote for us, we're not scary lefties.

Edited 15 July 2021 by HighPeakFox

[Leicester_Loyal]

 

[filbertway]

3 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

 

 that took me a while to get my head around. Once I clocked the dates, it all clicked haha

[dsr-burnley]

21 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Point 1 - by relying on personal choice/common sense, I think it's perfectly clear that not enough people can be relied upon to act for the common good, so at the very least I'd prefer them to have vaccinated more widely before blurring the lines and prickteasing us all about the relaxing of things - and said prickteasing has been done knowingly, getting hopes and expectations up, so that when the time comes, some have already made their minds up, and the government can blame us for their contradictory, self-serving rubbish.

 

Point 2 - I'm no doctor, but I know plenty that work in the medical profession, and none that I've spoken to know the long term chances of the immune system and its ability to adapt/counter/grow resilient to Covid and its many variants. I find the phrasing of your (well intended, no doubt) question rather sinister - because if we simply rely on the human immune system to overcome the disease (which we don't yet know is actually possible) then it is basically a game of 'let the weak/old/unlucky die, who cares that much? - it's the 'natural' order', which I don't think you are saying or thinking (I do not want to either accuse you or be accused of such) but I think it's what the Old Etonian/Harrovian etc mindset is - let the plebs take the bullets, we'll be 35 miles behind the front line. Oh, and please vote for us, we're not scary lefties.

You have two contradictory ambitions.  One is to keep old people as safe as possible from coronavirus.  The other is to keep schools open and running smoothly.  But you cannot have both.  If you want children to be educated, it will be at the expenses of the deaths of some older and frailer people, and also of some people who have chosen not to be vaccinated when they had the chance.

 

Of course the human immune system can overcome the disease.  Many, many people have caught the disease and survived.  In the last couple of months, over a quarter of a million people under 30 have caught this disease and (up to 3rd July) only 7 had died;  The human immune system can't overcome the disease to the extent that it cannot kill anyone, but that's true of all diseases.

[bovril]

21 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

 

Not this again....

[HighPeakFox]

Just now, dsr-burnley said:

You have two contradictory ambitions.  One is to keep old people as safe as possible from coronavirus.  The other is to keep schools open and running smoothly.  But you cannot have both.  If you want children to be educated, it will be at the expenses of the deaths of some older and frailer people, and also of some people who have chosen not to be vaccinated when they had the chance.

 

Of course the human immune system can overcome the disease.  Many, many people have caught the disease and survived.  In the last couple of months, over a quarter of a million people under 30 have caught this disease and (up to 3rd July) only 7 had died;  The human immune system can't overcome the disease to the extent that it cannot kill anyone, but that's true of all diseases.

I understand why you might think the former, but I disagree with your summing up. However, not enough to either fall out with you or argue it out with you. I am certain you are arguing from a good persepective - I just think that we're dicussing different layers within the many layers of complexity (and no, that isn't some veiled put down ).

[Corky]

The school holidays will hopefully see a reduction in cases in those age groups for a while. I'm also not convinced Monday will see everyone go mad although as we know it only takes a few to make things awkward. The Euros ending should stop large gatherings of younger, unvaccinated people too.

 

I'd imagine, with the amount of pinging from the app going on, that firms will continue to have people working from home where possible.

[yorkie1999]

34 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

 

How is that proof the vaccination is working? july 2020 saw 1500 deaths which is 48 a day, currently the death rate is rising, so we don't know what it will be at the end of the month, but i bet it won't be much different.

[The People's Hero]

My daughter has a positive lateral flow test and so we are prepared to do the common sense thing and just all isolate for the 10 days.

 

My question is, is there a requirement, legal or otherwise for us to get a full PCR check done? I'd rather not put everyone through the hassle since the net result is surely the same anyway, ie we isolate?

 

Answers appreciated as my wife thinks we could be fined for not having a PCR check, but I think she's talking absolute nonsense and had to remind her we don't live in a totalitarian dictatorship (yet).

[Super_horns]

7 hours ago, Legend_in_blue said:

In Sainsburys it is to "be encouraged".

 

Will be interesting to see the publics reaction.  Wonder how many will back down, be respectful and continue to follow the majority?

 

After all, last year masks were introduced roughly 6 months after the first wave in supermarkets.  

Work in one.

 

Seems to be a mixed reaction but they are keeping the customer/cashier screens which will provide some protection.

 

Most customers are elderly where I work so have to see if they keep wearing them. 

[Leicester_Loyal]

 

4 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

How is that proof the vaccination is working? july 2020 saw 1500 deaths which is 48 a day, currently the death rate is rising, so we don't know what it will be at the end of the month, but i bet it won't be much different.

We were having about 600 cases a day in July last year (obviously they'd have been more as we were testing much less), as well as still being in lockdown (or just come out of it in most places) compared to us being almost back to near normal now.

 

If the vaccine isn't working we may aswell just pack up and call it a day

 

The only people who are dying from this now are those who are either really unlucky, those who are elderly/vulnerable or those who haven't been jabbed.

 

I think we've almost ran out of people to first jab as well now, only doing 40-60k a day, it'll probably halt at about 90% or so?

[dsr-burnley]

9 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

My daughter has a positive lateral flow test and so we are prepared to do the common sense thing and just all isolate for the 10 days.

 

My question is, is there a requirement, legal or otherwise for us to get a full PCR check done? I'd rather not put everyone through the hassle since the net result is surely the same anyway, ie we isolate?

 

Answers appreciated as my wife thinks we could be fined for not having a PCR check, but I think she's talking absolute nonsense and had to remind her we don't live in a totalitarian dictatorship (yet).

It's not compulsory, but I'm sure I heard somewhere that the false positive rate from the lateral flow tests was pretty high so people are having a PCR test done to prove it wrong so they can get out again.

[Stivo]

7 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

My daughter has a positive lateral flow test and so we are prepared to do the common sense thing and just all isolate for the 10 days.

 

My question is, is there a requirement, legal or otherwise for us to get a full PCR check done? I'd rather not put everyone through the hassle since the net result is surely the same anyway, ie we isolate?

 

Answers appreciated as my wife thinks we could be fined for not having a PCR check, but I think she's talking absolute nonsense and had to remind her we don't live in a totalitarian dictatorship (yet).

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/testing/test-results/positive-test-result/
 

What you are doing is fine.  If you get a pcr test done within 2 days it could detect if it’s a false positive and you wouldn’t then  have to isolate.