Coronavirus Thread

[fox_favourite]

45 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

New figures show that 24% of patients in hospital with covid were not admitted for covid reasons.  That seems to be making the ‘experts’ feel even better about hospitalisations but it occurs to me that it means there are an awful lot more infections out there than we thought. it’s already clearly widespread in the background asymptomatically. 

Possibly, or could be that people are getting slight symptoms or random ones that no one would associate with covid? 

[kingfox]

No wonder why the current situation is being classed as confusing.

 

Government data shows a dramatic drop.

ONS data says it’s getting worse.

ZOE data says it’s dropping, but not in line with government figures.

R rate is down.

 

[st albans fox]

7 minutes ago, fox_favourite said:

Possibly, or could be that people are getting slight symptoms or random ones that no one would associate with covid? 

You dont generally get admitted to hospital with slight symptoms ?? 

[st albans fox]

Just now, kingfox said:

No wonder why the current situation is being classed as confusing.

 

Government data shows a dramatic drop.

ONS data says it’s getting worse.

ZOE data says it’s dropping, but not in line with government figures.

R rate is down.

 

Does ONS data use lateral flow or pcr ???

[fox_favourite]

4 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

You dont generally get admitted to hospital with slight symptoms ?? 

No what I mean is that if there is people with slight symptoms in the community unknowingly spreading it. 

[kingfox]

6 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Does ONS data use lateral flow or pcr ???

Not sure mate, someone else will have to answer that.

[Zear0]

9 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Does ONS data use lateral flow or pcr ???

PCR.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/30july2021

 

"Our incidence method uses several weeks' data to provide the latest estimate of new infections. Following our review, we have changed the reference date used for our official estimates of incidence of PCR-positive cases to 14 days prior to the end of the positivity reference date, with credible intervals provided until 7 days after the incidence reference date."

[dsr-burnley]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

New figures show that 24% of patients in hospital with covid were not admitted for covid reasons.  That seems to be making the ‘experts’ feel even better about hospitalisations but it occurs to me that it means there are an awful lot more infections out there than we thought. it’s already clearly widespread in the background asymptomatically. 

There don't need to be more that we thought.  

 

On average from 2016-2019, about 16,000 people per day were admitted to hospital.  The ONS reckons something like 1.5% of the population have coronavirus at the moment, so if coronavirus had nothing whatsover to do with hospital admission, we would expect about 1.5% of those 16,000 to have coronavirus - that's 240 people.  Or 1,680 per week.

 

Actual numbers admitted in the past 7 days?  6,341.  So if we say that 1,680 of the 6,341 coronavirus admissions were nothing to do with coronavirus, it was purely random - that would be 26%.  That's near enough for me.  We would, at present, expect about a quarter of the people admitted with coronavirus, to have got there for some other reason.

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, Zear0 said:

PCR.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/30july2021

 

"Our incidence method uses several weeks' data to provide the latest estimate of new infections. Following our review, we have changed the reference date used for our official estimates of incidence of PCR-positive cases to 14 days prior to the end of the positivity reference date, with credible intervals provided until 7 days after the incidence reference date."

If ONS use pcr then they are picking up the masses of asymptomatic cases in the vaccinated.  That adds to the idea that we are only seeing a proportion of the pos cases via daily testing as many are un knowingly carrying  the virus. There is an argument that these silent vaccinated spreaders aren’t consequential as their load is low. Pcr testing will pick them up which is why the ONS are seeing way higher levels than daily testing 

[VLC86]

My chest is clearing up now which is good, I still feel knackered from small things like taking the dogs for a walk which isn’t great but the worst thing at the minute is my sense of smell.

 

Everything smells sickly sweet and smokey, vile.

[Buce]

Former estate agent sentenced for park assault on Chris Whitty

Two year suspended prison sentence.

 

Seems a bit excessive; sure, the bloke's a dick but plenty of more serious crimes are punished less than that.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/30/man-pleads-guilty-to-assault-after-chris-whitty-accosted-in-london-park

[BKLFox]

8 minutes ago, Buce said:

Former estate agent sentenced for park assault on Chris Whitty

Two year suspended prison sentence.

 

Seems a bit excessive; sure, the bloke's a dick but plenty of more serious crimes are punished less than that.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/30/man-pleads-guilty-to-assault-after-chris-whitty-accosted-in-london-park

8 weeks suspended for 2yrs 

[st albans fox]

8 minutes ago, Buce said:

Former estate agent sentenced for park assault on Chris Whitty

Two year suspended prison sentence.

 

Seems a bit excessive; sure, the bloke's a dick but plenty of more serious crimes are punished less than that.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/30/man-pleads-guilty-to-assault-after-chris-whitty-accosted-in-london-park

It’s suspended ….just means he has to be careful not to be a dick again in the next couple years …….

I wish we had rather more draconian sentencing than the wishy washy system we’ve now. There is simply no deterrent - hence the awful scenes we saw in Asda last weekend ……

[Buce]

3 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

It’s suspended ….just means he has to be careful not to be a dick again in the next couple years …….

I wish we had rather more draconian sentencing than the wishy washy system we’ve now. There is simply no deterrent - hence the awful scenes we saw in Asda last weekend ……

 

If he had done the same thing to Joe Public on a Saturday night in town he'd have got away with a fine.

 

He's being excessively punished because the victim is high profile.

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

If he had done the same thing to Joe Public on a Saturday night in town he'd have got away with a fine.

 

He's being excessively punished because the victim is high profile.

And the victim is high profile because his job is to protect the population from a medical perspective and we’re in the midst of a pandemic. None of want a prospective CMO who is the best person for the job deciding not to take it because they are concerned that their public profile may make them a target like this,  

I doubt he would have even been arrested had he done it on a Saturday night to you or me ….. context 

[Buce]

 

Soldiers on the streets of Sydney.

 

How comfortable are you Aussies with that? @WigstonWanderer; @Sydney_Blue; @ozleicester

[ozleicester]

41 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Soldiers on the streets of Sydney.

 

How comfortable are you Aussies with that? @WigstonWanderer; @Sydney_Blue; @ozleicester

Fvcking appalled

[WigstonWanderer]

1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

Soldiers on the streets of Sydney.

 

How comfortable are you Aussies with that? @WigstonWanderer; @Sydney_Blue; @ozleicester

They used soldiers in Melbourne last year during their long lockdown as well. As far as I know they are mostly being used in secondary roles to free up police to go about the actual enforcement of the lockdown, so I don’t think they are out patrolling streets with weapons like in Northern Ireland in the seventies for example. They are simply being used as extra manpower.

 

Personally I’ve no problem with it whatsoever. The situation in NSW threatens the whole Australian strategy for dealing with the virus that has kept us relatively untroubled by restrictions for the last year and a half, so obviously most people would like to get back to the situation prior to this outbreak. Unfortunately the libertarian government in NSW dithered and delayed taking action during the early stages, and this is the result. Their response has always been very different to all the other states both Labor and Liberal, and this outcome was always entirely predictable.

 

Unfortunately with the delta strain being so contagious I think this could spell the end of our little virus-free niche. A shame that we couldn’t have held out until everyone had the opportunity to be vaccinated. If they don’t get on top of it it’s only a matter of time until the virus spreads everywhere.

Edited 31 July 2021 by WigstonWanderer

[Buce]

1 hour ago, WigstonWanderer said:

They used soldiers in Melbourne last year during their long lockdown as well. As far as I know they are mostly being used in secondary roles to free up police to go about the actual enforcement of the lockdown, so I don’t think they are out patrolling streets with weapons like in Northern Ireland in the seventies for example. They are simply being used as extra manpower.

 

Personally I’ve no problem with it whatsoever. The situation in NSW threatens the whole Australian strategy for dealing with the virus that has kept us relatively untroubled by restrictions for the last year and a half, so obviously most people would like to get back to the situation prior to this outbreak. Unfortunately the libertarian government in NSW dithered and delayed taking action during the early stages, and this is the result. Their response has always been very different to all the other states both Labor and Liberal, and this outcome was always entirely predictable.

 

Unfortunately with the delta strain being so contagious I think this could spell the end of our little virus-free niche. A shame that we couldn’t have held out until everyone had the opportunity to be vaccinated. If they don’t get on top of it it’s only a matter of time until the virus spreads everywhere.

 

I can't agree with this; it's an unacceptable step towards fascism. Our govt has already legislated to severely curtail the right to protest and if it happened here I would be the first on the streets defying it.

 

I've travelled in plenty of countries where the military is used to crush dissent and I promise you, you wouldn't want to live in any of them.

[WigstonWanderer]

2 hours ago, Buce said:

 

I can't agree with this; it's an unacceptable step towards fascism. Our govt has already legislated to severely curtail the right to protest and if it happened here I would be the first on the streets defying it.

 

I've travelled in plenty of countries where the military is used to crush dissent and I promise you, you wouldn't want to live in any of them.

I think comparing getting army personnel to help out during a health emergency with fascism or with events in the sort of countries that you have visited, is a little far fetched. Most Aussies don’t see the army as a threat. They do however see idiots who refuse to comply with some simple regulations during a health emergency as a threat to our current way of life and livelihoods.

 

I am no supporter of the loathsome Morrison government but this action is nowhere near as sinister as what the UK government is doing.

Edited 31 July 2021 by WigstonWanderer

[Buce]

7 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

I think comparing getting army personnel to help out during a health emergency with fascism or with events in the sort of countries that you have visited, is a little far fetched. Most Aussies don’t see the army as a threat. They do however see idiots who refuse to comply with some simple regulations during a health emergency as a threat to our current way of life and livelihoods.

 

I am no supporter of the loathsome Morrison government but this action is nowhere near as sinister as what the UK government is doing.

 

Are you familiar with 'mission creep'?

 

Soldiers on the streets - for whatever reason - is the thin end of a very sinister wedge.

Edited 31 July 2021 by Buce

[WigstonWanderer]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

Are you familiar with 'mission creep'?

 

Soldiers on the streets - for whatever reason - is the thin end of a nasty wedge.

Yes, of course, but I think most people would see this as a rather special set of circumstances. Would you object to the army helping out during a disaster like flooding, or earthquake? I see this in a similar light. If things change then I’d trust myself to spot the difference.

[Buce]

4 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

They used soldiers in Melbourne last year during their long lockdown as well. As far as I know they are mostly being used in secondary roles to free up police to go about the actual enforcement of the lockdown, so I don’t think they are out patrolling streets with weapons like in Northern Ireland in the seventies for example. They are simply being used as extra manpower.

 

Personally I’ve no problem with it whatsoever. The situation in NSW threatens the whole Australian strategy for dealing with the virus that has kept us relatively untroubled by restrictions for the last year and a half, so obviously most people would like to get back to the situation prior to this outbreak. Unfortunately the libertarian government in NSW dithered and delayed taking action during the early stages, and this is the result. Their response has always been very different to all the other states both Labor and Liberal, and this outcome was always entirely predictable.

 

Unfortunately with the delta strain being so contagious I think this could spell the end of our little virus-free niche. A shame that we couldn’t have held out until everyone had the opportunity to be vaccinated. If they don’t get on top of it it’s only a matter of time until the virus spreads everywhere.

 

Not according to this report:

 

Military to help enforce Sydney lockdown

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jul/29/nsw-covid-update-rules-tightened-in-western-sydney-as-state-reaches-record-high-of-239-daily-cases

 

 

[WigstonWanderer]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

Not according to this report:

 

Military to help enforce Sydney lockdown

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jul/29/nsw-covid-update-rules-tightened-in-western-sydney-as-state-reaches-record-high-of-239-daily-cases

 

 

Yes they are there to help enforce the lockdown, but are not armed, and are there to assist the police. As I say, I’m quite comfortable with this, but appreciate that some may not be. A few years ago I’d probably have agreed with you, and would have got very hot under the collar about state power, fascism, etc. Perhaps it’s my age, but these days I find myself getting far more annoyed at idiots that place other people’s lives and (equally important) livelihoods in danger.

[st albans fox]

31 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Are you familiar with 'mission creep'?

 

Soldiers on the streets - for whatever reason - is the thin end of a very sinister wedge.

The thinnest of a very very thinnest end ….