Coronavirus Thread

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, HankMarvin said:

Unless your vaccinated and catch the “Delta variant” and it’s the same according to the study below.

 

“A new study found that people vaccinated against coronavirus who have also contracted the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2 could have similar peak levels of the virus as people who have not had a vaccination.”

 

3 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Justification for a vaccine passport right there of course.

seen this discussed - what it doesn’t address is whether this is some double jabbed people who are infected or many or most?  You’d have to do a comparison study with unjabbed sufferers of similar ages etc etc

 

The question is surely are double jabbed asymptomatic carriers shedding the same volumes of virus as non jabbed?  in addition, anyone with symptoms should be getting a test and isolating until they have a result. no one is proposing those who are ill going out and about because they have a VP. I think this salient point is being missed in the discussion. If you’re ill then stay at home! 

[HankMarvin]

27 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

 

seen this discussed - what it doesn’t address is whether this is some double jabbed people who are infected or many or most?  You’d have to do a comparison study with unjabbed sufferers of similar ages etc etc

 

The question is surely are double jabbed asymptomatic carriers shedding the same volumes of virus as non jabbed?  in addition, anyone with symptoms should be getting a test and isolating until they have a result. no one is proposing those who are ill going out and about because they have a VP. I think this salient point is being missed in the discussion. If you’re ill then stay at home! 

 

I Couldn’t tell you the exact demographic but the article does state the following.

 

 

“The new study draws on data from the COVID-19 Infection Survey. This survey tests around 179,000 people every 2 weeks across the U.K. for signs of SARS-CoV-2 using a reverse transcription polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test. 

The survey involves testing around 150,000 people every 2 weeks to check antibodies to the virus, using a blood sample.

The study looked at two time periods: December 1 – May 16, 2021, and May 17 – August 1, 2021. The Alpha variant was dominant in the U.K during the first period, whereas Delta was dominant in the second.

 

The researchers found that both unvaccinated and vaccinated people who had contracted the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant had similar peak levels of the virus.

Previously, vaccinated people who contracted the Alpha variant had lower peak levels of the virus than people who had not had a vaccination.

The researchers also found that the Pfizer-BioNTech and Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccines provided a good level of protection against the virus. However, in line with the pre-print results from the REACT-1 study, they were less effective than against the Alpha variant.”

Edited 9 September 2021 by HankMarvin

[WigstonWanderer]

2 hours ago, HankMarvin said:

The researchers found that both unvaccinated and vaccinated people who had contracted the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant had similar peak levels of the virus.

Previously, vaccinated people who contracted the Alpha variant had lower peak levels of the virus than people who had not had a vaccination.

The researchers also found that the Pfizer-BioNTech and Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccines provided a good level of protection against the virus. However, in line with the pre-print results from the REACT-1 study, they were less effective than against the Alpha variant.”

I haven’t read the study itself, but have seen it discussed. My understanding was that:

 

- With the delta variant vaccines offer less protection against acquiring an infection than they did with the alpha variant.

- Vaccinated people acquiring a Covid infection reach the same peak levels of virus as the unvaccinated (as above).

 

but nevertheless:

 

- Vaccinated people are less likely to acquire a Covid infection.

- Vaccination reduces the period of infectivity.

 

If I have understood correctly, this still means that being vaccinated reduces the probability of infecting others, even with delta variant.

 

Edited 9 September 2021 by WigstonWanderer

[Lionator]

10 hours ago, HankMarvin said:

Unless your vaccinated and catch the “Delta variant” and it’s the same according to the study below.

 

“A new study found that people vaccinated against coronavirus who have also contracted the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2 could have similar peak levels of the virus as people who have not had a vaccination.”

There’s been papers reported since which have said that most of that detected virus in vaccinated people is dead, non-infectious virus. PCR test still picks it up though. 

[Super_horns]

Wonder if Morrison's will sent a precedent by doing this or will they face some sort of legal challenge?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/09/morrisons-profit-drops-as-firm-warns-over-supply-chain-crisis

[Legend_in_blue]

Chris Whitty set to approve Covid vaccine for ages 12-15 | News | The Times

 

 

Unbelievable.  Where's the science in that?

[st albans fox]

13 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Chris Whitty set to approve Covid vaccine for ages 12-15 | News | The Times

 

 

Unbelievable.  Where's the science in that?

 

psychology is a science 

 

kids need to be at school, not at home.  Whether you agree with vaccinating that age group is a different question…..

 

the jcvi said that there wasnt sufficient evidence that vaccination was beneficial on a medical basis (it was a close call) but the CMO would make his decision based on other factors aswell. 

 

[reynard]

17 hours ago, st albans fox said:

 

psychology is a science 

 

kids need to be at school, not at home.  Whether you agree with vaccinating that age group is a different question…..

 

the jcvi said that there wasnt sufficient evidence that vaccination was beneficial on a medical basis (it was a close call) but the CMO would make his decision based on other factors aswell. 

 

This is key here.  Leicestershire schools went back at the end of August and the infection rates in Harborough district for eg, now stand, as at 5th September, at 1385 per 100K for 15-19 year olds and 1128 pre 10k for 10-14 year olds. The latter has increased by 50% since schools returned,

Don't know if the same applies to the rest of Leicestershire but the county is experiencing some of the highest infection rates in the country at the moment.

[MPH]

Go get your vaccines!  Here’s me at home relaxing with my family and the very next day at work  on a Covid floor  at the hospital here in NC trying to catch a breath after wearing two masks all day!  These masks add 20 years to me I swear

 

 

[orangecity23]

Anyone else see the anti vax mob hanging out on Narborough Road on the way to to the game? One had a sign about Doctors being paid a £22 bounty for each "child they poison". I'm sure that's going to motivate doctors to hunt down children and inject them. They were probably getting more back when they were on that preventative advice kick and advised you to cut back on tea and coffee any time you visited the GP

 

[Heathrow fox]

Really hope the passport idea is binned.So open to abuse,It’s pointless.

[Super_horns]

28 minutes ago, Heathrow fox said:

Really hope the passport idea is binned.So open to abuse,It’s pointless.

Seems it might be .

 

 

[Smudge]

6 hours ago, MPH said:

Go get your vaccines!  Here’s me at home relaxing with my family and the very next day at work  on a Covid floor  at the hospital here in NC trying to catch a breath after wearing two masks all day!  These masks add 20 years to me I swear

 

 

Proud to know you M

[Livid]

9 hours ago, orangecity23 said:

Anyone else see the anti vax mob hanging out on Narborough Road on the way to to the game? One had a sign about Doctors being paid a £22 bounty for each "child they poison". I'm sure that's going to motivate doctors to hunt down children and inject them. They were probably getting more back when they were on that preventative advice kick and advised you to cut back on tea and coffee any time you visited the GP

 

I saw them with their placards and air horns.
 

I know we all have differing opinions on what has or hasn’t been done over the last 18 month’s. Whichever side of the argument you are on, if spend your Saturday afternoon on the side of a road encouraging motorists to honk if they agree  (unfortunately the lads who were hitting the horn for a laugh are just encouraging them)  you have need to take a long hard look at your life. 

[st albans fox]

Thinking about VP’s

 

if I have 240 adults  in an area (and they are cross section of society)

 

3 of them have covid

205 of them are double jabbed 

 

Several of them probably shouldn’t be there because they are vulnerable and couldn’t be jabbed 

 

has the govt decided that the risks of the virus running wild and overwhelming the health services isn’t worth the disruption to normal life 

 

do we just ignore the ‘other 35’ in the group and when they eventually contract the virus they will be dealt with by the NHS as and when/if needed ? 
 

I would have thought that it’s far more important that those who are infectious are kept away from the rest of us. Just because you are ‘anti vax’ doesn’t make you inherently anti social to the extent that you would just carry on regardless. 
 

maybe the efforts should be put into keeping the infectious at home and leave the non infectious to go about their daily lives.  But then that includes the asymptotic and pre symptomatic …… there really are no easy answers ….
 

 

[The Syrup]

9 hours ago, Super_horns said:

Seems it might be .

 

 

Vaccine passports scrapped for England, now confirmed by the government 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58535258

[Devonfox1884]

Strange one guys - but did anyone get a rash come up on either their elbows or back of their thighs after getting a vaccine?

 

Had my second one about 3 weeks ago, and about a week after having it rashes started to break out and although they’re going away, they’re going away very slowly. 

[Otis]

1 hour ago, The Syrup said:

Vaccine passports scrapped for England, now confirmed by the government 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58535258

How long before Nicola back-tracks.

[Super_horns]

4 hours ago, The Syrup said:

Vaccine passports scrapped for England, now confirmed by the government 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58535258

hmm..

 

Mixed messages from the Government again?

 

https://twitter.com/LittleGravitas/status/1437009492235988993

[orangecity23]

5 hours ago, Devonfox1884 said:

Strange one guys - but did anyone get a rash come up on either their elbows or back of their thighs after getting a vaccine?

 

Had my second one about 3 weeks ago, and about a week after having it rashes started to break out and although they’re going away, they’re going away very slowly. 

Conicidentally, I've been tidying my kitchen today and found the leaflet they gave me when I had my Pfizer jab(s). "Allergic reactions such as rash or itching" is listed under Uncommon side effects. You could always try getting a GP appointment, that might prescribe you some cream that could clear it up.

[Devonfox1884]

31 minutes ago, orangecity23 said:

Conicidentally, I've been tidying my kitchen today and found the leaflet they gave me when I had my Pfizer jab(s). "Allergic reactions such as rash or itching" is listed under Uncommon side effects. You could always try getting a GP appointment, that might prescribe you some cream that could clear it up.

Cheers mate, interesting - I had Pfizer so seems entirely possible. I did an e-consult about a week ago and was prescribed some betnovate for it. It’s a bit better now but still not great so got a proper appointment face-to-face tomorrow. It’s nothing horrendous but want it clearing up!

[Ric Flair]

On 10/09/2021 at 20:59, st albans fox said:

 

psychology is a science 

 

kids need to be at school, not at home.  Whether you agree with vaccinating that age group is a different question…..

 

the jcvi said that there wasnt sufficient evidence that vaccination was beneficial on a medical basis (it was a close call) but the CMO would make his decision based on other factors aswell. 

 

Won't they still need to isolate if they get covid though? Baring in mind there's been studies suggesting the delta variant is every bit as rife amongst the double vaccinated that it's unlikely to make much difference. These children won't end up in hospital anyway and they will still contract covid, many will already have the natural antibodies due to already having it.

 

I'm very uncomfortable with this one, feels like the government are flip flopping on their words and actions about the science etc when in reality that's often been contradicted anyway.

[dsr-burnley]

9 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Thinking about VP’s

 

if I have 240 adults  in an area (and they are cross section of society)

 

3 of them have covid

205 of them are double jabbed 

 

Several of them probably shouldn’t be there because they are vulnerable and couldn’t be jabbed 

 

has the govt decided that the risks of the virus running wild and overwhelming the health services isn’t worth the disruption to normal life 

 

do we just ignore the ‘other 35’ in the group and when they eventually contract the virus they will be dealt with by the NHS as and when/if needed ? 
 

I would have thought that it’s far more important that those who are infectious are kept away from the rest of us. Just because you are ‘anti vax’ doesn’t make you inherently anti social to the extent that you would just carry on regardless. 
 

maybe the efforts should be put into keeping the infectious at home and leave the non infectious to go about their daily lives.  But then that includes the asymptotic and pre symptomatic …… there really are no easy answers ….
 

 

Has the government decided that the risks of the virus running wild and overwhelming the health services isn't worth the disruption to normal life?  Yes, they have.  A sound decision in my view.  The government makes this sort of decision all the time - the reason they don't issue lockdowns for measles is because they have decided that the risks of the vaccines running wild are remote enough that it isn't worth the disruption to normal life; they have made the same decision for coronavirus.

 

Your 240 adults are unlikely to include 3 with coronavirus.  People who know they have coronavirus, tend to isolate.  The 240 would only include those who don't know they have it.

 

As for the 35 unvaccinated, the number who can't have it because they are vulnerable, but have no other restrictions to normal life?  Very few.  Let's call it 1, though I suspect it's less.  For the time being, they will probably have to be even more careful than they are now.  A shame, but I don't think there is much else we can reasonably do.

 

The other 34, the ones who could be vaccinated and choose not to be?  Well, here's the scenario.  There are two equally valid ways in which Mr. Smith can avoid getting severe coronavirus.  One is to have two jabs in his arm.  The other is for everyone else in the world to make major changes to their lifestyle.  I suggest Mr. Smith can take the jabs or take the consequences; the rest ofthe world should not be asked to make such significant sacrifices to cover his prejudices.

[st albans fox]

3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Won't they still need to isolate if they get covid though? Baring in mind there's been studies suggesting the dekta variant is every bit as rife amongst the double vaccinated that it's unlikely to make much difference. These children won't end up in hospital anyway and they will still contract covid, many will already have the natural antibodies due to already having it.

 

I'm very uncomfortable with this one, feels like government are flip flopping on their words and actions about the science etc when in reality that's often been contradicted anyway.

Yes they will

I suppose the science says that transmission is less likely from those double jabbed than not because loads are generally lower. (In know in some cases they are similar).  

 

still cant get away from the feeling that we are all part of a mass experiment to get as many infected as possible ahead of the winter …..

[st albans fox]

4 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

Has the government decided that the risks of the virus running wild and overwhelming the health services isn't worth the disruption to normal life?  Yes, they have.  A sound decision in my view.  The government makes this sort of decision all the time - the reason they don't issue lockdowns for measles is because they have decided that the risks of the vaccines running wild are remote enough that it isn't worth the disruption to normal life; they have made the same decision for coronavirus.

 

Your 240 adults are unlikely to include 3 with coronavirus.  People who know they have coronavirus, tend to isolate.  The 240 would only include those who don't know they have it.

 

As for the 35 unvaccinated, the number who can't have it because they are vulnerable, but have no other restrictions to normal life?  Very few.  Let's call it 1, though I suspect it's less.  For the time being, they will probably have to be even more careful than they are now.  A shame, but I don't think there is much else we can reasonably do.

 

The other 34, the ones who could be vaccinated and choose not to be?  Well, here's the scenario.  There are two equally valid ways in which Mr. Smith can avoid getting severe coronavirus.  One is to have two jabs in his arm.  The other is for everyone else in the world to make major changes to their lifestyle.  I suggest Mr. Smith can take the jabs or take the consequences; the rest ofthe world should not be asked to make such significant sacrifices to cover his prejudices.

Mostly reasonable but I’d still say that if 1 in 80 are infected then every chance my 240 could have 3 infectious (up to a third of those with the virus are asymptomatic)  plus two days before you’re symptomatic you are infectious ).

 

my point was that three in 240 isn’t v notable and the virus is currently pretty widespread