Coronavirus Thread

[filbertway]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

Is it?! 

By definition it's not, but it feels very much like it atm, I guess we'll have a better idea over the next 3/4 months. 

[gerblod]

3 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/12/covid-report-government-boris-johnson-scientific-advisers-polls

Marina Hyde is the most incisive and disparaging of all of the Guardian writers commentating on the Johnson 'government'. She nails his flippancy, his puerile braggadocio and his tawdry obfuscations with words hurled like darts in his direction.

[Lionator]

12 hours ago, gerblod said:

I did an LFT test on Monday. Turns out I'm infected with Covid! I reported the fact to the Government via its user- friendly website. Now self- isolating and in receipt of a PCR kit. 10 days house arrest but with previous 'remand' time deducted from my sentence. I'll be out on the 16th.

My neighbours' two tests were negative so I'm racking my brains as to where I contracted it. Nothing springs to mind.

I told you!! Loss of smell is covid. But I'm glad to hear that you're feeling ok and that you'll be free soon enough! 

[fuchsntf]

21 hours ago, Paninistickers said:

Maybe more by accident than design, but yes,.i agree....  as vaccinated people get exposed to this and our kids get exposed to this, it'll  do our collective immune systems the world of good. 

 

 

My day to day work is largely with Dutch and germans. I take great pleasure in telling them that for England, covid is over. Finito. They are largely envious. They seem to be roughly where we were in June/July

 

Surely we want normality,.don't we? 

I Live with Dutch..Germans & French...& See n hear UK problems especially Believing Covid is finnito,....

True like a Brit you cant tell the difference between showing  envy & Sympathy for a dillusional...

[yorkie1999]

The NHS app went down today and people couldn't access their covid pass and they couldn't get on aeroplanes. What i can't work out is, we have a pass to say we have been vaccinated or have a negative test result so we can do things i.e. go the football, go on holiday etc, yet we all know that being vaccinated doesn't stop you catching covid or spreading it, i know plenty of people who have caught covid after being double jabbed, so, what is the point of a pass that is literally worthless as a means of stopping the spread of the virus?

[Legend_in_blue]

7 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

The NHS app went down today and people couldn't access their covid pass and they couldn't get on aeroplanes. What i can't work out is, we have a pass to say we have been vaccinated or have a negative test result so we can do things i.e. go the football, go on holiday etc, yet we all know that being vaccinated doesn't stop you catching covid or spreading it, i know plenty of people who have caught covid after being double jabbed, so, what is the point of a pass that is literally worthless as a means of stopping the spread of the virus?

Stop asking sensible questions.  The "cretins" will have an answer, but noone will listen.

[Filbert_Ross]

54 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

The NHS app went down today and people couldn't access their covid pass and they couldn't get on aeroplanes. What i can't work out is, we have a pass to say we have been vaccinated or have a negative test result so we can do things i.e. go the football, go on holiday etc, yet we all know that being vaccinated doesn't stop you catching covid or spreading it, i know plenty of people who have caught covid after being double jabbed, so, what is the point of a pass that is literally worthless as a means of stopping the spread of the virus?

Wondered that myself 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

double jabbed myself. 

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

The NHS app went down today and people couldn't access their covid pass and they couldn't get on aeroplanes. What i can't work out is, we have a pass to say we have been vaccinated or have a negative test result so we can do things i.e. go the football, go on holiday etc, yet we all know that being vaccinated doesn't stop you catching covid or spreading it, i know plenty of people who have caught covid after being double jabbed, so, what is the point of a pass that is literally worthless as a means of stopping the spread of the virus?

Being vaccinated reduces the likelihood that you will pass it on if infected. Uncertain as to how much the reduction is.  It also reduces the chances that you will contract the virus.  However, it does increase the chance that you will be asymptomatic so does that mean a double jabbed flight is more likely to have infectious people on it ?   I guess because you need a neg lft before flying, that combined with being double jabbed is considered safer than not jabbed  …….. apparently ……

[MalletFox]

2 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

The NHS app went down today and people couldn't access their covid pass and they couldn't get on aeroplanes. What i can't work out is, we have a pass to say we have been vaccinated or have a negative test result so we can do things i.e. go the football, go on holiday etc, yet we all know that being vaccinated doesn't stop you catching covid or spreading it, i know plenty of people who have caught covid after being double jabbed, so, what is the point of a pass that is literally worthless as a means of stopping the spread of the virus?

Steady on, next you’ll be suggesting that entry to large capacity events should be done on the basis of a negative test aas opposed to vaccinated people who can spread COVID all willy nilly. You psychopath!!

[MalletFox]

Just now, MalletFox said:

Steady on, next you’ll be suggesting that entry to large capacity events should be done on the basis of a negative test aas opposed to vaccinated people who can spread COVID all willy nilly. You psychopath!!

Oh, and whilst you’re at it, don’t dare reference the pilot events where 60k people attended having being pre-tested and circa 15 positive tests ensued. It was an absolute failure and was rightly abolished in place of vaccinated people only may attend, regardless of if you have COVID or not.

[yorkie1999]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Being vaccinated reduces the likelihood that you will pass it on if infected. Uncertain as to how much the reduction is.  It also reduces the chances that you will contract the virus.  However, it does increase the chance that you will be asymptomatic so does that mean a double jabbed flight is more likely to have infectious people on it ?   I guess because you need a neg lft before flying, that combined with being double jabbed is considered safer than not jabbed  …….. apparently ……

So they say, but I know three  people who are double jabbed, which is why I posed the question in the first place, and have tested positive who have all passed the virus into their other half’s who are also double jabbed, now that’s either a coincidence, or they are unlucky enough to have caught it at exactly the same time or it’s just all a load of old bollocks that we’re being fed. 
  I also think the next phase will be, if you catch it, you won’t have to isolate simply because if you do happen to catch it, you have probably already passed it on to everyone you know and the isolation bit is a bit pointless. No doubt stats will prove me wrong because that’s what stats do.

[KrefelderFox666]

12 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

The NHS app went down today and people couldn't access their covid pass and they couldn't get on aeroplanes. What i can't work out is, we have a pass to say we have been vaccinated or have a negative test result so we can do things i.e. go the football, go on holiday etc, yet we all know that being vaccinated doesn't stop you catching covid or spreading it, i know plenty of people who have caught covid after being double jabbed, so, what is the point of a pass that is literally worthless as a means of stopping the spread of the virus?

The jab does not prevent you catching Covid (although it does lower the likelihood of you catching it). However, the biggest benefit is that it prevents most deaths and critical illnesses. Essentially what the Government are doing (I assume) by having these Covid passes, is that they know it will help prevent the NHS from being suffocated. They are fully aware that case numbers would be increasing but in the hope that 90-95% of cases will mean people stay at home and don't need to go into hospital, thus being able to manage it.

 

For unvaccinated, the risk of hospitalisation/death is severely increased, so they don't want to risk a stadium/aeroplane/whatever similar full of unvaccinated who risk causing a massive spike in hospitalisations.

 

Numbers are rising again and pretty much have done in some form since July (which is to be expected). The acid test will be around hospital admissions/deaths and whether those vaccinated 6-9 months ago are now more vulnerable again (hence the boosters).

 

You don't need many brain cells to realise that the vaccine is effective and saving 1000's of people's lives. However, the vaccine does not eradicate the virus. It is still here, people can still catch it. You would think people's habits have changed so that infections are less common than 18 or so months ago. Be interesting to see how this winter unfolds as I don't know anyone who hasn't been knocked down with a form of illness (flu, norovirus etc.) in the past week.

[yorkie1999]

39 minutes ago, KrefelderFox666 said:

The jab does not prevent you catching Covid (although it does lower the likelihood of you catching it). However, the biggest benefit is that it prevents most deaths and critical illnesses. Essentially what the Government are doing (I assume) by having these Covid passes, is that they know it will help prevent the NHS from being suffocated. They are fully aware that case numbers would be increasing but in the hope that 90-95% of cases will mean people stay at home and don't need to go into hospital, thus being able to manage it.

 

For unvaccinated, the risk of hospitalisation/death is severely increased, so they don't want to risk a stadium/aeroplane/whatever similar full of unvaccinated who risk causing a massive spike in hospitalisations.

 

Numbers are rising again and pretty much have done in some form since July (which is to be expected). The acid test will be around hospital admissions/deaths and whether those vaccinated 6-9 months ago are now more vulnerable again (hence the boosters).

 

You don't need many brain cells to realise that the vaccine is effective and saving 1000's of people's lives. However, the vaccine does not eradicate the virus. It is still here, people can still catch it. You would think people's habits have changed so that infections are less common than 18 or so months ago. Be interesting to see how this winter unfolds as I don't know anyone who hasn't been knocked down with a form of illness (flu, norovirus etc.) in the past week.

Yes, who's disputing any of this?  but tell me, how does a pass that shows you are vaccintaed against a virus you can still catch and pass on prevent you from catching and passing the virus on.

[Ric Flair]

 

[Wolfox]

14 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

 

You wot?  Surely that’s bollox?

 

Or is that because people think they’re invincible?

 

All the data suggests you’re a lot less likely to catch it?

Edited 14 October 2021 by Wolfox

[Dunge]

9 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

You wot?  Surely that’s bollox?

 

Or is that because people think they’re invincible?

 

All the data suggests you’re a lot less likely to catch it?

Several possibilities really, without seeing the specifics of data collection.

 

- “Cynical” unvaccinated less likely to test, so mild cases won’t be reported.

- Unvaccinated may have more recent and effective immunity from having had the virus itself recently.

- Differences in social habits; some people will be unvaccinated for medical reasons and likely implementing a form of personal shielding.

 

I don’t think these numbers are anything to jump at, and he does say later in his thread that there is a “dramatic” reduction in the short term of hospitalisation and death rates for the vaccinated. But there is probably a point to be made about the relative usefulness or otherwise of vaccine passports and the like, particularly if we’re not trying to operate a zero-Covid approach. (Which we’re not.)

[leicsmac]

44 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

 

Yeah, the least important premise, driven not largely by the effectiveness of the vaccine but by people taking it and then thinking they don't have to take other precautions.

 

Smells like anti vaxxer misdirection tbh.

[Buce]

A Vietnamese couple are 'heartbroken' at having to put down 12 dogs because of Covid.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58894320

 

On the plus side the freezer is now stocked with enough food to last six months...

Edited 14 October 2021 by Buce

[Ric Flair]

4 minutes ago, Dunge said:

Several possibilities really, without seeing the specifics of data collection.

 

- “Cynical” unvaccinated less likely to test, so mild cases won’t be reported.

- Unvaccinated may have more recent and effective immunity from having had the virus itself recently.

- Differences in social habits; some people will be unvaccinated for medical reasons and likely implementing a form of personal shielding.

 

I don’t think these numbers are anything to jump at, and he does say later in his thread that there is a “dramatic” reduction in the short term of hospitalisation and death rates for the vaccinated. But there is probably a point to be made about the relative usefulness or otherwise of vaccine passports and the like, particularly if we’re not trying to operate a zero-Covid approach. (Which we’re not.)

Exactly, the vaccines quite clearly help prevent hospitalisations and deaths which is what's most important to enable us to regain some form of normal way of life and not completely overwhelm the health system constantly.

 

It's just the messaging around the vaccine which is misleading and why it irks when the young and healthy are made to be derided as selfish for not perhaps thinking they need the vaccine.

[Dunge]

Just now, leicsmac said:

Yeah, the least important premise, driven not largely by the effectiveness of the vaccine but by people taking it and then thinking they don't have to take other precautions.

 

Smells like anti vaxxer misdirection tbh.

I did consider that, but I don’t think the unvaccinated are going to be concerned and taking greater precautions unless they’re medically vulnerable. So I think it’s more likely most of those who are unvaccinated without medical exemption will have actually caught Covid by now and either have some immunity, been hospitalised or worse.

But generally speaking this will be explainable through social differences rather than the suspect-implication of the post that getting the vaccine somehow makes you more susceptible to Covid. Which it doesn’t.

[Dunge]

5 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Exactly, the vaccines quite clearly help prevent hospitalisations and deaths which is what's most important to enable us to regain some form of normal way of life and not completely overwhelm the health system constantly.

 

It's just the messaging around the vaccine which is misleading and why it irks when the young and healthy are made to be derided as selfish for not perhaps thinking they need the vaccine.

I’m not sure whether “misleading” is fair, more that I think the situation is changing and advice becomes old. Six or eight months ago, I fully agreed with a push to get everyone vaccinated who could be, to protect both ourselves and others. In the time in between, with the rise of the Delta variant, we’ve seen that the vaccines are still effective at preventing bad outcomes for people but less effective at preventing transmission. (They still have an effect but it’s less pronounced.) As such, the argument for everyone getting the vaccine for public safety, while still there, gets weaker also. Essentially, it’s been a while since any official line has been offered to the public on Covid strategy and where we’re going with this. Only to say that “get vaccinated” is still sound advice on a personal level.

 

All that said, I don’t know what to say to people like the poor guy who posted the other day with cancer and bronchial problems.

[Ric Flair]

10 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I’m not sure whether “misleading” is fair, more that I think the situation is changing and advice becomes old. Six or eight months ago, I fully agreed with a push to get everyone vaccinated who could be, to protect both ourselves and others. In the time in between, with the rise of the Delta variant, we’ve seen that the vaccines are still effective at preventing bad outcomes for people but less effective at preventing transmission. (They still have an effect but it’s less pronounced.) As such, the argument for everyone getting the vaccine for public safety, while still there, gets weaker also. Essentially, it’s been a while since any official line has been offered to the public on Covid strategy and where we’re going with this. Only to say that “get vaccinated” is still sound advice on a personal level.

 

All that said, I don’t know what to say to people like the poor guy who posted the other day with cancer and bronchial problems.

All fair points, in my line of work I've been involved in the insurance side of things with covid and the most recent swarm of pressure around the vaccination of children hasn't sat well with me and there's very little argument now that the remaining unvaccinated cohort of the population, that there's a real issue there. Its OK to offer this vaccination but there should be no pressure for people to have it, baring in mind the take up has far exceeded what the government and scientists predicted anyway.

 

 

[KrefelderFox666]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

Yes, who's disputing any of this?  but tell me, how does a pass that shows you are vaccintaed against a virus you can still catch and pass on prevent you from catching and passing the virus on.

It doesn't and like I said, the Government don't care about infections. They just care about "protecting the NHS". And obviously there is a lot about pushing people to get the vaccine by having this pass that allows people to do more things easily (e.g. go on holiday without having to test/quarantine).

[Dunge]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

All fair points, in my line of work I've been involved in the insurance side of things with covid and the most recent swarm of pressure around the vaccination of children hasn't sat well with me and there's very little argument now that the remaining unvaccinated cohort of the population, that there's a real issue there. Its OK to offer this vaccination but there should be no pressure for people to have it, baring in mind the take up has far exceeded what the government and scientists predicted anyway.

 

 

It’s interesting to me that there hasn’t been the push here to get children vaccinated that there has in other European countries. It’s been very much a “get it if you want it” approach for 12-18 age groups. I probably take a slightly opposite view to you that I don’t like the pressure from anti-vax groups for children not to get it, like that case in Wales the other day when a child in a wheelchair was confronted outside a vaccination centre.

 

But clearly scientists in this country feel the effect is negligible. And a big reason for our case numbers right now are instances of the virus in unvaccinated children (and then inevitably in parents). This is not currently leading to a leap in hospitalisations.

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, Wolfox said:

You wot?  Surely that’s bollox?

 

Or is that because people think they’re invincible?

 

All the data suggests you’re a lot less likely to catch it?

It is - it is a common misreading of the data - happened when the govt first released the data has well