Coronavirus Thread

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, yorkie1999 said:

Out of interest, how long does natural immunity last? Is it like a virus such as chicken pox in that once you catch it you’re extremely unlikely to catch it again. I do know people who’ve tested positive for covid a couple of times but from what I can gather, tests are not that reliable once you’ve caught it’ as they pick up traces for quite a while after.

Pcr can be positive for up to 6 months post infection 

 

the question you ask doesn’t have a definitive answer 

 

Whilst testing for antibodies is pretty straightforward, working out your T cell immunity isn’t.  

 

It’s going to be a fair while yet until there are decent peer reviewed studies into the question. 
 

there are plenty of instances of people catching it for a second time which means it isn’t like chicken pox. Continual exposure to the virus should make it less and less of a problem to your system. 

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, Babylon said:

You are about 1 in 100,000 to get a clot (that’s just a clot, might not even de deadly).

 

For comparison, Bee sting death 60,000 to 1, death at work 43,000 to 1, car crash death 8000 - 1.

Does that mean for every 60k bee stings, someone dies ?

 

But to be a direct comparison you’d have to deliberately go and upset a bee ??

[Izzy]

22 minutes ago, Babylon said:

That’s nothing to do with the mixing and merely down the the risk / reward calculation of Pfizer v Astrazenica for different age groups. 

 

Astra’ was linked to the clotting (more so in younger ages than older ), albeit a very rare occurrence. Because of that small risk, it was deemed Pfizer was better for those with a lower Covid risk eg. <40 and thus they will get the Pfizer. Where as >40’s are at more risk from Covid, and thus get Astra’ as an option also (because Astra doesn’t clot as much in older compared to younger… still very rare)
 

I think the boosters are all Pfizer aren’t they. Personally I’d be happy, as there are less reactions to that than Astra’.

Yeah, I had the booster last week which was Pfizer and my first two jabs were Astra. I had bad side effects after my first jab but none after the second or the booster.

[Babylon]

3 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Does that mean for every 60k bee stings, someone dies ?

 

But to be a direct comparison you’d have to deliberately go and upset a bee ??

**** knows I just took it from a shit site to make a point  Seems a bit high. 
 

You get what I mean, it’s about risk. We all do so much shit without thinking of the chance of death from it.

[Izzy]

8 minutes ago, stripeyfox said:

I'm not sure where I am with my kids. My eldest (13) says he doesn't wan't it. Have not had the discussion with the ex wife about it (too busy battling over divorce!) .

 

I'd probably swing behind him having it, and will try to persuade him, but if he doesn't want it I guess I can't force him?

 

I can't even make my two tidy their room so I've got fvck all chance of forcing them to have the vaccine.

[stripeyfox]

3 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I can't even make my two tidy their room so I've got fvck all chance of forcing them to have the vaccine.

haha same mate. they take feck all notice of me. The good thing is that after a few days they feck off back to their mum and I don't need to worry about it for a bit!
 

[Rain King]

52 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

For those parents here whose kids have had the virus, might I ask what sort of experience they had? We’re they symptomatic at all? How did their experience compare with catching a cold?

 

Edit: Genuine question by the way. I am curious what real world experiences are.

My 10 year has it currently. Started last week, I had the day off work and was trying to get him out of bed to do something rather than waste his half term but he was complaining he was more tired than he'd ever been and had a banging headache.

 

Took him out for something to eat at a cafe and whilst we were there he complained first of being boiling and then freezing but otherwise fine. Took him to the park after for a kick about and he wanted to leave after a few minutes which is when I started to take notice as normally he'd play football all day. Did the lateral flow when we got home and sure enough it was positive.

 

He's on the mend now but his main symptoms have been extreme tiredness, soar throat, slight cough, headache and PS5 🙄

Edited 26 October 2021 by Rain King

[jgtuk]

1 hour ago, Soup said:

I'd just rather not tbh. I'm not sure if the under 40's will be mixing? So if they'll be sticking to the same vaccine then I should be allowed to also. I honestly don't think that's to much to ask is it? 

 

@Line-X I think I remember you posting something regarding the benefits of mixing but can't actually remember too much of how it read. Like I just said though I'm not keen really can't see why it's an issue. After all I'm not refusing the vaccine I am.

I was told that the antibody response was greater when mixing the vaccine doses. I have had three primary vaccinations, first two Pfizer and my third one was the Moderna. I haven’t had my booster yet though. I have an immune deficiency but didn’t have much of a reaction to any of the vaccines, just felt a bit under the weather for a couple of days. 
Please reconsider your choice, it really is for your benefit, as well as those who you’re in contact with. 
Take care.

[orangecity23]

33 minutes ago, Babylon said:

You are about 1 in 100,000 to get a clot (that’s just a clot, might not even de deadly).

 

For comparison, Bee sting death 60,000 to 1, death at work 43,000 to 1, car crash death 8000 - 1.

Isn't the clot risk only for the Astra Zeneca vaccine? I don't recall reading about any Pfizer cases (seem to hear more about the alergic reactions with that one), and this government report on the yellow card data only mentions AZ numbers for clots (unless I've read it incorrectly)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting#yellow-card-reports

[Paninistickers]

42 minutes ago, stripeyfox said:

I'm not sure where I am with my kids. My eldest (13) says he doesn't wan't it. Have not had the discussion with the ex wife about it (too busy battling over divorce!) .

 

I'd probably swing behind him having it, and will try to persuade him, but if he doesn't want it I guess I can't force him?

 

 

I am 100% sure. My kids will not have it until they are forced to (like I have been) by society making life difficult without one. 

 

So I guess, at 18, they'll have to have one but at least there will be a few years of data by then.

 

 

[fox_favourite]

32 minutes ago, Rain King said:

My 10 year has it currently. Started last week, I had the day off work and was trying to get him out of bed to do something rather than waste his half term but he was complaining he was more tired than he'd ever been and had a banging headache.

 

Took him out for something to eat at a cafe and whilst we were there he complained first of being boiling and then freezing but otherwise fine. Took him to the park after for a kick about and he wanted to leave after a few minutes which is when I started to take notice as normally he'd play football all day. Did the lateral flow when we got home and sure enough it was positive.

 

He's on the mend now but his main symptoms have been extreme tiredness, soar throat, slight cough, headache and PS5 🙄

Glad he’s on the mend. But I’d watch out for the ps5 symptom, that I’m afraid stays with them for a while…possibly years! 

[Rain King]

7 minutes ago, fox_favourite said:

Glad he’s on the mend. But I’d watch out for the ps5 symptom, that I’m afraid stays with them for a while…possibly years! 

Yep I'm not sure if the headache is the result of Covid or excessive screen time!

[fox_favourite]

Watch out for a RSI as part of long ps5

[pazzerfox]

2 hours ago, Line-X said:

I've pointed this out three times already this year.  I find it utterly astonishing that even if something conforms to one's preconceptions, that in the rush for reinforcement, people neglect to take the time look into the agenda behind the source or even independently verify and check the veracity of the claims made. I understand that people don't like or want restrictions - genuinely, neither do I, but those opposed to them have resorted to often ludicrous levels of cherry picked confirmation bias and internet junk in order to support their beliefs. This thread is testimony not only to the polarisation of our society which is being torn asunder and deliberately engineered by social media but also the lengths that some will go to in order to impose their opinions. 

 

From ludicrous posts such as "it's been scientifically proven that facemasks don't work", to Mike Yeadon's absurd proclamations about herd immunity last December, Toby Young's tweets, Ivor Cummins' ridiculous You Tube videos, to the belief that the UK is a totalitarian regime. Then there was the posting of the fake ivermectin study, to members pointing to ****ing Brazil as an example of how to manage the infection - one in particular saying that he wanted to spend last Christmas out there. Jair Bolsonaro is now facing nine criminal charges including crimes against humanity. 

 

On the subject of facemasks, as @Otis correctly said, an unwashed loose piece of cloth will accomplish nothing, but why wouldn't you purchase some close fitting N95 masks? I've worn them for years cycling around London. I also wore them during the pandemic - not because it was mandated, but because I wanted to where appropriate. Moreover, not to protect myself from contracting SARS-CoV-19, but to reduce the risk of spreading it, particularly in closed, indoor poorly ventilated spaces. I didn't feel the need to clatter pots and pans outside my house in the spring and summer of 2020, but I did feel obligated to respect frontline health (and understated care workers), trying to operate in near impossible conditions and in view of the clinical burden that they face and the backlog in other treatments. This has not gone away as people on here seem to think, simply because they can now enjoy several pints in the pub before going to the match. We need to be very mindful of the possibility of local outbreaks/superspreading events that may place further strain on hospitals, healthcare trusts and most importantly the healthcare workers themselves in addition to the influx of seasonal illnesses. - And frankly in respect of that, I don't give a ****ing shit what anyone's football forum opinions about further restrictions are. 

 

I posted several times over the summer about the extensive research into the efficacy of hybrid vaccinations and the history of this. Needle in a haystack on this thread I concede. You have every right to remain dubious, but I'd be more than happy to provide you with some information on this. The science behind it is fascinating. 

 

Actually, regarding this thread, I might start bumping some of the ridiculous posts I'm referred to that some people are now completely in denial of. That's another thing that bugs me about social media - the learned revisionism. I have a very good memory. 

What are your thoughts on Mike Yeadons latest views on Covid?  He is a big reason why many are sceptical.  A friend of mine sent me a video of his last week and he comes accross as very sincere, having been a former Pfizer executive and all.

[leicsmac]

5 hours ago, Line-X said:

I've pointed this out three times already this year.  I find it utterly astonishing that even if something conforms to one's preconceptions, that in the rush for reinforcement, people neglect to take the time look into the agenda behind the source or even independently verify and check the veracity of the claims made. I understand that people don't like or want restrictions - genuinely, neither do I, but those opposed to them have resorted to often ludicrous levels of cherry picked confirmation bias and internet junk in order to support their beliefs. This thread is testimony not only to the polarisation of our society which is being torn asunder and deliberately engineered by social media but also the lengths that some will go to in order to impose their opinions. 

 

From ludicrous posts such as "it's been scientifically proven that facemasks don't work", to Mike Yeadon's absurd proclamations about herd immunity last December, Toby Young's tweets, Ivor Cummins' ridiculous You Tube videos, to the belief that the UK is a totalitarian regime. Then there was the posting of the fake ivermectin study, to members pointing to ****ing Brazil as an example of how to manage the infection - one in particular saying that he wanted to spend last Christmas out there. Jair Bolsonaro is now facing nine criminal charges including crimes against humanity. 

 

On the subject of facemasks, as @Otis correctly said, an unwashed loose piece of cloth will accomplish nothing, but why wouldn't you purchase some close fitting N95 masks? I've worn them for years cycling around London. I also wore them during the pandemic - not because it was mandated, but because I wanted to where appropriate. Moreover, not to protect myself from contracting SARS-CoV-19, but to reduce the risk of spreading it, particularly in closed, indoor poorly ventilated spaces. I didn't feel the need to clatter pots and pans outside my house in the spring and summer of 2020, but I did feel obligated to respect frontline health (and understated care workers), trying to operate in near impossible conditions and in view of the clinical burden that they face and the backlog in other treatments. This has not gone away as people on here seem to think, simply because they can now enjoy several pints in the pub before going to the match. We need to be very mindful of the possibility of local outbreaks/superspreading events that may place further strain on hospitals, healthcare trusts and most importantly the healthcare workers themselves in addition to the influx of seasonal illnesses. - And frankly in respect of that, I don't give a ****ing shit what anyone's football forum opinions about further restrictions are. 

 

I posted several times over the summer about the extensive research into the efficacy of hybrid vaccinations and the history of this. Needle in a haystack on this thread I concede. You have every right to remain dubious, but I'd be more than happy to provide you with some information on this. The science behind it is fascinating. 

 

Actually, regarding this thread, I might start bumping some of the ridiculous posts I'm referred to that some people are now completely in denial of. That's another thing that bugs me about social media - the learned revisionism. I have a very good memory. 

As the COP26 conference is coming up, I'm considering doing this for some of the responses on the climate change/XR threads too. Far too many people dismissing the message and just disparaging the messengers when it's the former that is the only thing that is actually important.

[Babylon]

3 hours ago, orangecity23 said:

Isn't the clot risk only for the Astra Zeneca vaccine? I don't recall reading about any Pfizer cases (seem to hear more about the alergic reactions with that one), and this government report on the yellow card data only mentions AZ numbers for clots (unless I've read it incorrectly)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting#yellow-card-reports

You can get it with both, or at least it’s been reported after both. 

[Babylon]

2 hours ago, pazzerfox said:

What are your thoughts on Mike Yeadons latest views on Covid?  He is a big reason why many are sceptical.  A friend of mine sent me a video of his last week and he comes accross as very sincere, having been a former Pfizer executive and all.

How many more times does he have to be wrong before people stop believing what he says?

 

Bloke has been pimping himself out and begging for a move to the US, funded by right wing nut cases. 

[Ric Flair]

7 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Pcr can be positive for up to 6 months post infection 

 

the question you ask doesn’t have a definitive answer 

 

Whilst testing for antibodies is pretty straightforward, working out your T cell immunity isn’t.  

 

It’s going to be a fair while yet until there are decent peer reviewed studies into the question. 
 

there are plenty of instances of people catching it for a second time which means it isn’t like chicken pox. Continual exposure to the virus should make it less and less of a problem to your system. 

I've had chicken pox 4 times.

[Ric Flair]

7 hours ago, Babylon said:

You are about 1 in 100,000 to get a clot (that’s just a clot, might not even de deadly).

 

For comparison, Bee sting death 60,000 to 1, death at work 43,000 to 1, car crash death 8000 - 1.

For those that know someone who has suffered very adverse reactions to the vaccine and they themselves have suffered a number of health issues post the vaccine when they didn't really need it and nor is it a vaccine that gives any guarantee of protection, should they just shut up and get on with it? 

 

My wife is seriously stalling on the 2nd dose after my issues post 2nd vaccine and 2 people we know who have had strokes under the age of 32. 1 from the 1st vaccine and 1 from the 2nd vaccine.

 

Unemotional people will point to the stats and say get on with it, but I can absolutely see the hesitance. Would I have had the vaccines knowing what I know now and considering just myself and my family? I have every right to want to look after myself and those close around me first and foremost. So I do understand some concerns and it isn't just people being anti vaxxers or swept up in the social media propaganda. 

[st albans fox]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

I've had chicken pox 4 times.

r u sure it was ‘chicken’? 
 

 

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

For those that know someone who has suffered very adverse reactions to the vaccine and they themselves have suffered a number of health issues post the vaccine when they didn't really need it and nor is it a vaccine that gives any guarantee of protection, should they just shut up and get on with it? 

 

My wife is seriously stalling on the 2nd dose after my issues post 2nd vaccine and 2 people we know who have had strokes under the age of 32. 1 from the 1st vaccine and 1 from the 2nd vaccine.

 

Unemotional people will point to the stats and say get on with it, but I can absolutely see the hesitance. Would I have had the vaccines knowing what I know now and considering just myself and my family? I have every right to want to look after myself and those close around me first and foremost. So I do understand some concerns and it isn't just people being anti vaxxers or swept up in the social media propaganda. 

unfortunately I get the feeling that the authorities aren’t putting any real investment into investigation of these ‘post vaccine’ issues. Not the ones where you don’t feel great for a few months because they really would be difficult to suss out.  If people really believe that they’ve suffered a stroke as a consequence of vaccination then this needs to be looked into quickly. The fact that it isn’t just feeds the conspiracy side of the argument.
 

 It is implausible  for you to know two people who have suffered strokes as a a consequence of taking the vaccine - unless we aren’t being told everything by the authorities. So the lack of dealing with these incidents just adds to uncertainty. 
 

similarly, I know from this thread that there were apparently two deaths in Leicester in the early stages of AZ vaccination delivery. What were the coroner’s findings on these two fatalities ?  Again, this seems unlikely to have occurred within the same locality in a short space of time.  

 

or maybe perhaps vaccinations do cause side effects and the very few who suffer badly are simply ‘collateral damage’ for the greater good.  I’ve deliberately used non empathetic language.   
 

the query here is that very few surely can’t include two people that ric knows 

 

Edited 27 October 2021 by st albans fox

[FoxesDeb]

9 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

r u sure it was ‘chicken’? 
 

 

unfortunately I get the feeling that the authorities aren’t putting any real investment into investigation of these ‘post vaccine’ issues. Not the ones where you don’t feel great for a few months because they really would be difficult to suss out.  If people really believe that they’ve suffered a stroke as a consequence of vaccination then this needs to be looked into quickly. The fact that it isn’t just feeds the conspiracy side of the argument.
 

 It is implausible  for you to know two people who have suffered strokes as a a consequence of taking the vaccine - unless we aren’t being told everything by the authorities. So the lack of dealing with these incidents just adds to uncertainty. 
 

similarly, I know from this thread that there were apparently two deaths in Leicester in the early stages of AZ vaccination delivery. What were the coroner’s findings on these two fatalities ?  Again, this seems unlikely to have occurred within the same locality in a short space of time.  

 

or maybe perhaps vaccinations do cause side effects and the very few who suffer badly are simply ‘collateral damage’ for the greater good.  I’ve deliberately used non empathetic language.   
 

the query here is that very few surely can’t include two people that ric knows 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9732583/Mother-three-47-dies-AstraZeneca-Covid-jab-caused-blood-clots-brain.html

 

Sorry it's the Mail. Lucy is one of the people I have talked about in this thread, I worked with her. 

Edited 27 October 2021 by FoxesDeb

[FoxesDeb]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

For those that know someone who has suffered very adverse reactions to the vaccine and they themselves have suffered a number of health issues post the vaccine when they didn't really need it and nor is it a vaccine that gives any guarantee of protection, should they just shut up and get on with it? 

 

My wife is seriously stalling on the 2nd dose after my issues post 2nd vaccine and 2 people we know who have had strokes under the age of 32. 1 from the 1st vaccine and 1 from the 2nd vaccine.

 

Unemotional people will point to the stats and say get on with it, but I can absolutely see the hesitance. Would I have had the vaccines knowing what I know now and considering just myself and my family? I have every right to want to look after myself and those close around me first and foremost. So I do understand some concerns and it isn't just people being anti vaxxers or swept up in the social media propaganda. 

My eldest son, who is 20, refused to have the vaccine. He didn't really have a good reason though, just that he didn't feel it was necessary for him. I tried talking him into it, but then with what happened to Lucy and Dan how could I? 2 deaths from AZ in the space of a few days, both people I knew. Understandably emotions come into play then. 

 

He's since had Covid so it's no longer an issue, but when you personally know people who've had awful reactions and even died it's difficult to make an argument for it. 

 

I'm sorry for what's happened to the people you know. 

[Babylon]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

For those that know someone who has suffered very adverse reactions to the vaccine and they themselves have suffered a number of health issues post the vaccine when they didn't really need it and nor is it a vaccine that gives any guarantee of protection, should they just shut up and get on with it? 

 

My wife is seriously stalling on the 2nd dose after my issues post 2nd vaccine and 2 people we know who have had strokes under the age of 32. 1 from the 1st vaccine and 1 from the 2nd vaccine.

 

Unemotional people will point to the stats and say get on with it, but I can absolutely see the hesitance. Would I have had the vaccines knowing what I know now and considering just myself and my family? I have every right to want to look after myself and those close around me first and foremost. So I do understand some concerns and it isn't just people being anti vaxxers or swept up in the social media propaganda. 

Of course not, it becomes far more personal doesn’t it. That 100,000 to one feels more like 100 to 1. 
 

If someone you loved got hit by lightning, you’d leg it indoors the second you heard a rumble. It changes your perspective.

 

The discussion here was mixing shots, there is no reason not to. Other than not wanting the shot in the first place.

 

I don’t even have an issue with anyone not wanting it, all personal choice. You stray into anti vax territory if you start trying to convince others not to take it for me and start believing all the shite online. They are the people I have an issue with, spouting half truths and outright lies and dragging others along with them.

[SpacedX]

12 hours ago, pazzerfox said:

What are your thoughts on Mike Yeadons latest views on Covid?  He is a big reason why many are sceptical.  A friend of mine sent me a video of his last week and he comes accross as very sincere, having been a former Pfizer executive and all.

In addition to trying to explain the pitfalls of cherry picking data and confirmation bias to some on here, it has been an equally futile task highlighting appeal to authority as a logical fallacy. So what if Yeadon was an executive at Pfizer? - Andrew Wakefield was a medic. Sadly, both have blood on their hands. 

 

I'd suggest sending your friend this...

 

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-coronavirus-vaccines-skeptic/

 

The case of Yeadon is in part testament to the corrupting influence and poison associated with 'alt-news' and social media. Prior to 2018, he didn't even have an twitter account. The above article correctly avoids speculation on what caused a man previously dedicated to logic and reason to choose the path that he has, but I suspect having been such a high achiever and having sold the biotech company that he founded, (Ziacro) to Novartis he found himself out of the spotlight and devoid of purpose and is now desperate to afford himself recognition in a new arena. I dunno, sheer conjecture on my part, but scarily he does also seem to have political ambitions and a business venture connected with his vaccine hesitancy rhetoric in the pipeline.

 

This thread is simply part of the bigger battle we face online today, pitching emotionally invested agenda driven opinion, which is reinforced by the aforementioned confirmation bias against the genuine quest for evidence based fact.

 

According to some, if you subscribe to this nonsense you are "thinking out of the box". 

 

Simply declare in a post on here that "lockdown doesn't work" and you'll immediately get six or seven likes. I can tell you who they'll be from. 

 

Unfortunately, the internet is replete with opportunistic fakes, frauds and conmen all with different motivations and vested interests - and sadly quacks and snake oil salesmen with something to sell. They frequently use such appeal to authority, confirmation bias and appeal to emotion or resort to outright lies to bamboozle and deceive the impressionable for their own gains - look no further than the sale of ivermectin in the States. Very often, this is politically motivated and the best way to ensure engagement is to stoke up anger and outrage. If you examine in detail the lucrative online industry that is conspiracy theory in the US, it thrives upon ignorance, fear and prejudice, empowering those that think an internet connection can substitute for an education. The thriving Qanon movement and the storming of Capitol last year are ample testimony to the dangers of this. 

 

The FB video last November in which Mike Yeadon claimed that the pandemic was over was viewed over a million times before being taken down. 

Edited 27 October 2021 by Line-X

[Paninistickers]

3 hours ago, Babylon said:

Of course not, it becomes far more personal doesn’t it. That 100,000 to one feels more like 100 to 1. 
 

If someone you loved got hit by lightning, you’d leg it indoors the second you heard a rumble. It changes your perspective.

 

The discussion here was mixing shots, there is no reason not to. Other than not wanting the shot in the first place.

 

I don’t even have an issue with anyone not wanting it, all personal choice. You stray into anti vax territory if you start trying to convince others not to take it for me and start believing all the shite online. They are the people I have an issue with, spouting half truths and outright lies and dragging others along with them.

I think that's what peeves me most. Nobody should need a reason NOT to take it. 'I just don't' is perfectly acceptable. Though not obviously acceptable to the holier than thou 'but you'll kill people with your selfish actions' brigade 

 

But, I agree with you, peddling flimsy anti vax theories is odd and selfish in its own way.

 

I'm just hoping by the time my kids get to 18, this whole fuss/panic/obsession will have blown over (and my hunch is it will have done by mid 2023 latest) and jabs become as banal and unsought after as flu jabs are.