Our Internationals 2020/21

[Dan LCFC]

2 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Mings is in because he’s left footed quite simply. Any other left footed CB turns up they have a chance 

I've jokingly said this before but it's true isn't it? Maguire's right footed but generally plays left side, does he not? He did for us.

[fuchsntf]

13 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

I've tried to get away from this whole big 6 favouritism but it really is impossible, there's no way else you can justify this fascination with fitting Mount in no matter what. If Dier played for us he wouldn't be near the XI.

I thought Mount selection for the squad was ok..but hes playing too much,& I Dont understand the Pairing of Henderson & Rice.

Yesterday it was obvious we needed Another forward with Kane,who could Run at them...!!!

[davieG]

https://www.goal.com/en/news/southgate-reaches-england-low-not-seen-since-eriksson-after/aeolwl2gymar1i2o26loqueuv

 

Southgate reaches England low not seen since Eriksson after Belgium defeat in Nations League

BELGIUM V ENGLAND
The Three Lions boss now ranks alongside the Swede for defeats as his team crashed out of the competition
Gareth Southgate became the first England manager to lose 10 matches since Sven-Goran Eriksson after the 2-0 defeat to Belgium saw his team dumped out of Nations League contention.

First-half goals to Youri Tielemans and Dries Mertens did the damage for the Belgians at Den Dreef on Sunday evening, with the Three Lions dominating much of play but unable to get back in the match.

It was Southgate's 10th defeat in his 48 matches in charge of England, as he equalled the amount of losses suffered by former Three Lions boss Eriksson, who lost 10 of his 67 games in the hot seat.

Following the 1-0 loss Denmark in October, England has now lost back-to-back competitive matches for the first time since 2018 - where they were defeated three consecutive times in a stretch from July to September.

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Southgate's side can now no longer qualify for the Nations League finals, with Belgium and Denmark competing in a straight shootout on Wednesday to decide Group 2's representative in the final four.

England are however safe from relegation in the Nations League with Iceland failing to secure a point in their five matches to date.

Southgate was pleased with England's endeavour despite the defeat, insisting they will win matches if they continue to put in that level of performance.

"We don't like losing, but enormous credit to the team, all the way through they created problems and defended resiliently," Southgate told Sky Sports.

"I thought we were excellent. I couldn't have enough praise for the players. If you play at the level we did tonight, I think we will win more games than we lose."

Article continues below
Both of Belgium's first-half goals came from outside the area with Tielemans' 10th minute strike deflecting off Tyrone Mings before going in off the post, and Mertens scoring a wonderful free-kick after a controversial foul was awarded against Declan Rice.

The Three Lions had 55 per cent of the ball and doubled Belgium's shot tally with 16 to eight throughout the match, but couldn't find the cutting edge to breach Thibaut Courtois' net.

England will host Iceland in a Nations League dead rubber on Wednesday, with Southgate sure to swing the changes and give opportunities to the squad's fringe players.

[Dan LCFC]

11 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

I thought Mount selection for the squad was ok..but hes playing too much,& I Dont understand the Pairing of Henderson & Rice.

Yesterday it was obvious we needed Another forward with Kane,who could Run at them...!!!

I don't mind Mount making the squad but he's treated like a key player and I just don't really see how that's come to be. Southgate's been a hypocrite - as somebody correctly pointed out earlier in the thread how he said Maddison had to prove himself in the top flight and whatnot for a year before he got a call up, yet Mount waltzes past him after two Premier League games. The fact it took this long for Grealish to get a competitive start as well is ridiculous, he was one of our only bright sparks yesterday as well which is no surprise. Love him or hate him he's a seriously dangerous player. I hate facing him for Villa.

 

Southgate's in this position where the vast majority know that he's not really up to it now, he's been found out but as usual those in charge will let him piss away the next tournament, similar to the way they did Hodgson in Euro 2016, wouldn't be surprised to see us have a similarly awful campaign.

Edited 16 November 2020 by Dan LCFC

[Mickyblueeyes]

22 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

I don't mind Mount making the squad but he's treated like a key player and I just don't really see how that's come to be. Southgate's been a hypocrite - as somebody correctly pointed out earlier in the thread how he said Maddison had to prove himself in the top flight and whatnot for a year before he got a call up, yet Mount waltzes past him after two Premier League games. The fact it took this long for Grealish to get a competitive start as well is ridiculous, he was one of our only bright sparks yesterday as well which is no surprise. Love him or hate him he's a seriously dangerous player. I hate facing him for Villa.

 

Southgate's in this position where the vast majority know that he's not really up to it now, he's been found out but as usual those in charge will let him piss away the next tournament, similar to the way they did Hodgson in Euro 2016, wouldn't be surprised to see us have a similarly awful campaign.

I always worry when a manager who hasn’t proved himself gets the national job. Mistakes like this really sets the team back. Southgate failed miserably in club management but was given the national job and because of his lack of confidence quite clearly panders to players who play for clubs at a level he could only dream about. 
 

I can just about understand an absolute legend of the country being brought in alongside a good coaching staff. Maradona at Argentina or Klinsmann at Germany. A guy like Southgate is brought in simply because he is a yes man. He lacks any sort of tactical ability. People will throw back at me the World Cup run. However, we beat teams with weaker squads and when we were challenged by a team of equal footing, he was easily disposed of. 
 

The man is stealing a living and having a detrimental impact on a good generation of players. 

[fuchsntf]

17 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

I don't mind Mount making the squad but he's treated like a key player and I just don't really see how that's come to be. Southgate's been a hypocrite - as somebody correctly pointed out earlier in the thread how he said Maddison had to prove himself in the top flight and whatnot for a year before he got a call up, yet Mount waltzes past him after two Premier League games. The fact it took this long for Grealish to get a competitive start as well is ridiculous, he was one of our only bright sparks yesterday as well which is no surprise. Love him or hate him he's a seriously dangerous player. I hate facing him for Villa.

 

Southgate's in this position where the vast majority know that he's not really up to it now, he's been found out but as usual those in charge will let him piss away the next tournament, similar to the way they did Hodgson in Euro 2016, wouldn't be surprised to see us have a similarly awful campaign.

I thought Southgate started out well, & seems to Show where he wanted to Take this new young England side,but Now hes deferred/returned to type.

at First the players again Wanted the ball,& busy looking for options while on the Front foot....Now  they have returned again ,to movement without purpose,

and no idea what to do,with that round-thing in Front of them...They seem Scared to want to Take their man on, Grealish & Kane,to a point sometimes Henderson

are the only ones who dare,to go beyond or attack that opposition First line of defense

[Dan LCFC]

2 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

I always worry when a manager who hasn’t proved himself gets the national job. Mistakes like this really sets the team back. Southgate failed miserably in club management but was given the national job and because of his lack of confidence quite clearly panders to players who play for clubs at a level he could only dream about. 
 

I can just about understand an absolute legend of the country being brought in alongside a good coaching staff. Maradona at Argentina or Klinsmann at Germany. A guy like Southgate is brought in simply because he is a yes man. He lacks any sort of tactical ability. People will throw back at me the World Cup run. However, we beat teams with weaker squads and when we were challenged by a team of equal footing, he was easily disposed of. 
 

The man is stealing a living and having a detrimental impact on a good generation of players. 

I always expected Southgate to get the England job, felt for a long time like he was being lined up for it and I was surprised that he didn't actually succeed Hodgson, maybe the plan was for him to succeed Allardyce after Russia and Euro 2020 but obviously that got brought forward. The thought of it never really appealed to me, I never wanted it but I knew it would happen.

 

He's yet another manager in a job he's out of his depth in, some real parallels between Southgate and Solskjaer (and arguably Lampard). The World Cup everybody got caught up in the hype, which is perfectly understandable as ultimately if you can't then I'm struggling to see why you would bother at all anyway, but once the dust settled you realised we got largely fortunate and if being better than the toss served up by Hodgson is the barometer then quite frankly we need some standards. It was an improvement, but it wasn't a miracle, the fact so much was made of it sums up quite how far off being one of the top nations we truly are and yet I feel like there is so much in place for us to be one.

 

I think it's mentality with England ultimately. You saw it right in front of your eyes yesterday. Everyone says our media are harsh - they're having a laugh. We've just lost 2-0 to Belgium, scored 3 goals in 5 nations league games (2 penalties, 1 massive deflection), finished below Denmark (assuming it's on head to head) and the first thing they say is "plenty to be positive about for Southgate"????? No top nation has standards that low. I cannot believe the French or German media would be that lenient and god knows what it would be like in somewhere like Brazil. We're just forever happy to delude ourselves and it's to our detriment.

 

 

2 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

I thought Southgate started out well, & seems to Show where he wanted to Take this new young England side,but Now hes deferred/returned to type.

at First the players again Wanted the ball,& busy looking for options while on the Front foot....Now  they have returned again ,to movement without purpose,

and no idea what to do,with that round-thing in Front of them...They seem Scared to want to Take their man on, Grealish & Kane,to a point sometimes Henderson

are the only ones who dare,to go beyond or attack that opposition First line of defense

Yeah you know what for all I wasn't on board with him at first I did pick up a bit of faith in the bloke going into Russia, thought he made the right noises, it's hard to quantify what exactly it was but I started feeling a bit optimistic going into that World Cup. He's just doing what all England managers seem to do - squeeze all of the fun out of it.

 

I'm not totally sure who I'd bring in. I don't think international jobs are all that appealing anymore. I feel whoever gets it would be underwhelming.

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, Dan LCFC said:

I've jokingly said this before but it's true isn't it? Maguire's right footed but generally plays left side, does he not? He did for us.

Yeah. Theres a big thing in football tactics partly pushed by UEFA with their coaching clinics that a defensive 3 requires a left footed CB. 
 

The stats actually back it up but clearly it means average players getting picked on that basis 

[Dan LCFC]

10 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Yeah. Theres a big thing in football tactics partly pushed by UEFA with their coaching clinics that a defensive 3 requires a left footed CB. 
 

The stats actually back it up but clearly it means average players getting picked on that basis 

This could be a total nonsense theory but I've always felt fine with two right footed centre backs, one of each (on their favoured side), but not two left footed  somebody played it against us recently I think, could've been Man City. Point proven!

 

Maguire plays on the left even of a back three. I don't think Maguire's actually all that good at playing out to be honest. Willing to bring the ball out which is good but his passing is.... OK, and he hasn't got the pace to recover when the ball is lost.

[Scotch]

I've said it before but it absolutely astonished me what some you you England fans consider as "average players".....

 

I would punch my dog in the Bawz for players like Dier and Mings in the Scotland team. 

 

We have just had our best defensive run in about 10 years with a back 3 of Kieran Tierney, who's a left back, Scott Mctominay who is a CM and Motherwells Declan Gallagher who just received his first call up at 29 this year. 

What's funny about that is those 3 players would actually be my first choice in a back three so what does that tell you about our other options? 

 

Players like McKenna, Souttar and Cooper..... Now THEY are "average players".

[SouthStandUpperTier]

No current top managers would want to swap top-end club football for international football so unfortunately Southgate is probably the best the FA can do at the moment. Unless they want to go back to the days of getting milked dry by washed-up, big name managers doing a half-arsed job like Sven and Capello .

[Paninistickers]

3 minutes ago, Foxy_Bear said:

I've said it before but it absolutely astonished me what some you you England fans consider as "average players".....

 

I would punch my dog in the Bawz for players like Dier and Mings in the Scotland team. 

 

We have just had our best defensive run in about 10 years with a back 3 of Kieran Tierney, who's a left back, Scott Mctominay who is a CM and Motherwells Declan Gallagher who just received his first call up at 29 this year. 

What's funny about that is those 3 players would actually be my first choice in a back three so what does that tell you about our other options? 

 

Players like McKenna, Souttar and Cooper..... Now THEY are "average players".

It is a conundrum..

 

We have Tielemans, Praet and Castagne in the world number 1 ranked team. I don't think any of them would be picked for an England squad (maybe Tielemans squad but not first xi)

[Scotch]

1 minute ago, Paninistickers said:

It is a conundrum..

 

We have Tielemans, Praet and Castagne in the world number 1 ranked team. I don't think any of them would be picked for an England squad (maybe Tielemans squad but not first xi)

I said it in another post yesterday. The problem isn't the players that are being picked. There is obvious quality there, it's more a case of Southgate not playing a system that makes the most of those players that ARE picked. 

 

England has ALWAYS favoured players of bigger clubs. This is nothing new and certainly not exclusive to Southgate. 

[st albans fox]

its also to do with money 

 

sponsors want players involved who are going to generate the most interest - that's players from the big six clubs in general …….

[surrifox]

England will win nothing and the better players in the England set up and the dwindling number of supporters will be consistently let down whilst this pusillanimous fool remains in post 

[boots60]

Southgate is the new Revie, playing safe, omitting creative players until injuries forced him to select Grealish a few games back.

Revie constantly ignored flair players like Worthington, Weller, Currie, Marsh & Bowles in the 1970's. Result, we never qualified for sweet f. all.

 

[Stadt]

27 minutes ago, Foxy_Bear said:

I've said it before but it absolutely astonished me what some you you England fans consider as "average players".....

 

I would punch my dog in the Bawz for players like Dier and Mings in the Scotland team. 

 

We have just had our best defensive run in about 10 years with a back 3 of Kieran Tierney, who's a left back, Scott Mctominay who is a CM and Motherwells Declan Gallagher who just received his first call up at 29 this year. 

What's funny about that is those 3 players would actually be my first choice in a back three so what does that tell you about our other options? 

 

Players like McKenna, Souttar and Cooper..... Now THEY are "average players".

It’s all relative though. England’s population is about 55m, we have the richest and most watched league with some of the richest clubs in the world, we’re world cup winners too. Scotland’s population is about 5m of the top of my head with a weak domestic league and not much in the way of resources.

 

It’d be like saying Demarai Gray isn’t a mediocre winger because he’d be an absolute star for Plymouth. Winks, Dier, Mings, Rice et al are average relative to France and Germany’s first choice players.

 

It’s all the more frustrating currently because with a good manager we could genuinely be contenders. Löw, Deschamps and Martinez are in charge of talented squads but they’re particularly good managers. Southgate makes our squad worse than the sum of our parts 

Edited 16 November 2020 by Stadt

[Lambert09]

25 minutes ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

No current top managers would want to swap top-end club football for international football so unfortunately Southgate is probably the best the FA can do at the moment. Unless they want to go back to the days of getting milked dry by washed-up, big name managers doing a half-arsed job like Sven and Capello .

I agree you won’t get a top club manager for international football. But for me Eddie Howe is absolutely the perfect guy for a job like this. 

 

A great motivator, plays nice football one flaw... the transfer market. I’d imagine he’d do great things for England, but obviously many will disagree after Bournemouth got relegated 

[BenKimbo]

1 minute ago, Lambert09 said:

I agree you won’t get a top club manager for international football. But for me Eddie Howe is absolutely the perfect guy for a job like this. 

 

A great motivator, plays nice football one flaw... the transfer market. I’d imagine he’d do great things for England, but obviously many will disagree after Bournemouth got relegated 

I don’t think Eddie Howe should be anywhere near the England job. He was given plenty of money to spend he chose to sign terrible players this argument annoys me so much. £25mil on Jefferson Lerma, £15mil for Jordan Ibe. He’s a joke 

[filbertway]

2 minutes ago, BenKimbo said:

I don’t think Eddie Howe should be anywhere near the England job. He was given plenty of money to spend he chose to sign terrible players this argument annoys me so much. £25mil on Jefferson Lerma, £15mil for Jordan Ibe. He’s a joke 

So his main weakness is negated by being an international manager

[Muzzy_Larsson]

51 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

This could be a total nonsense theory but I've always felt fine with two right footed centre backs, one of each (on their favoured side), but not two left footed  somebody played it against us recently I think, could've been Man City. Point proven!

 

Maguire plays on the left even of a back three. I don't think Maguire's actually all that good at playing out to be honest. Willing to bring the ball out which is good but his passing is.... OK, and he hasn't got the pace to recover when the ball is lost.

It's absolutely fine if playing two centre backs, in fact if you look through the league most teams play wih two right footed centre backs. It becomes more of an issue when you play three CB's however, withou someone who is naturally left sided in that system it becomes a bit lop sided and disjointed.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

3 minutes ago, BenKimbo said:

I don’t think Eddie Howe should be anywhere near the England job. He was given plenty of money to spend he chose to sign terrible players this argument annoys me so much. £25mil on Jefferson Lerma, £15mil for Jordan Ibe. He’s a joke 

Don't forget Solanke!

[Lambert09]

2 minutes ago, BenKimbo said:

I don’t think Eddie Howe should be anywhere near the England job. He was given plenty of money to spend he chose to sign terrible players this argument annoys me so much. £25mil on Jefferson Lerma, £15mil for Jordan Ibe. He’s a joke 

But that’s my point, trying to find diamonds in the rough for a club like Bournemouth is a tough job... one that he was horrible at. But that skill doesn’t effect the England job. He’s selecting from very high profile players. 

 

Some managers are better at just coaching players and that’s what you need for the England job. It’s also the same reason why those that are excellent in the transfer marker often make poor international managers. 

 

You pick a young manager like Eddie and he could really grow with the team. The big worry with him would be how his teams defend but personally I’d like to take a gamble. 

 

Realistically who could england appoint of a high pedigree? They are always going to have some type of flaw. We haven’t had a good manager since Robson 

[Dan LCFC]

4 minutes ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

Don't forget Solanke!

That name should be banned on here. PTSD.

[Dan LCFC]

Is it at all realistic to just get a manager in for a tournament? Seems a bit unfair but I'd much sooner have someone who can make a difference, a tactician brought in for a month than knowing that Southgate is going to piss the Euros up the wall.