Amartey

[Jobyfox]

15 minutes ago, turtmcfly said:

 

I was much less surprised at what he's done over his last 6 games than you were, yet you're at it straight away with the supremely confident calls with regard to the limits of his ability, limits you admit you've already misjudged once.

 

But as expected, when pressed for something beyond 'amateur scout, I use me eyes me' stuff, it's nada time...

 

 

 

 

 

Ok.

 

Modern full backs tend to have ability on the ball. I can’t see Amartey creating an overload with his winger and crossing the ball into the penalty area with any authority. I can’t see him being high up the field available to receive the ball. I can’t see him taking on the opposing LB and dribbling the ball around him. 
 

He might, just about, have the attributes to be a purely defensive RB. If we played a low block and a narrow four (as in 15/16) then maybe - but we’ve rarely played in that style under Brendan. Even then I would worry about him against the better wingers as he doesn’t have the mobility of smaller, more mobile players, who’ve made their career in that position. 
 

He’s never convinced me that he can use the ball well enough to be a good CDM. People often think CDMs are just defensive, but the very best ones are great passers of the ball or, failing that, have great energy to carry the ball forward progressively. Kante’s ability to initiate attacks and drive team’s forward were one of the many things that set him apart. You could argue that N’didi does few of these things, but his sheer pressing energy and ability to win tackles without fouling carry him through. He will, however, never be a truly great CDM due to the limitations I’ve described, which is probably why no bigger club has ever come in for him. Mendy, too, is another limited player, but uses the ball much more tidily and effectively than DA does. 
 

I’ve actually always thought his best position should be CB and was surprised why no manager had ever tried him there. He’s not limited by ability in that position and I guess my criticisms of him as a CB are more subjective: poor positioning, poor use of the ball, lack of confidence in possession when receiving the ball (and often picking the easiest pass because of this), error prone. Football is about opinions so either agree with me or not, although I’m willing to bet the vast majority would have agreed with me prior to the last few games. 
 

His recent form suggests that I might have misjudged him, but I still believe all of the above points are fair criticism based upon evidence on the pitch over a long period of time. So I don’t apologise for past observations or, in fact, think they were wrong. I actually think the “I told you so’s” on this thread must have been watching a different game to me over the past few seasons.
 

You call it as you see it and form is form - and his currently is the best form I’ve ever seen him in. If his current form continues then he will truly be a valued asset in the CB position. 

[westernpark]

On 14/11/2022 at 18:21, Jobyfox said:

He really wasn’t!

 

His games were full of poor positioning, lack of confidence and bad decision making. He’s not got the ability to play as a RB and he’s not good enough with the ball as a CDM. 
 

I still think it’s great that he’s now proving a lot of people wrong (including me) but, he needs to do something that he’s not done previously, and that’s have a consistent run of form (not just a few games) in one position. Then I will be totally convinced. 

It’s clearly pointless arguing about something that is subjective, but I stand by the assertion that he was absolutely fine last season. But that was clouded by a shaky start to this campaign.

[turtmcfly]

1 hour ago, Jobyfox said:

Ok.

 

Modern full backs tend to have ability on the ball. I can’t see Amartey creating an overload with his winger and crossing the ball into the penalty area with any authority. I can’t see him being high up the field available to receive the ball. I can’t see him taking on the opposing LB and dribbling the ball around him. 
 

He might, just about, have the attributes to be a purely defensive RB. If we played a low block and a narrow four (as in 15/16) then maybe - but we’ve rarely played in that style under Brendan. Even then I would worry about him against the better wingers as he doesn’t have the mobility of smaller, more mobile players, who’ve made their career in that position. 
 

He’s never convinced me that he can use the ball well enough to be a good CDM. People often think CDMs are just defensive, but the very best ones are great passers of the ball or, failing that, have great energy to carry the ball forward progressively. Kante’s ability to initiate attacks and drive team’s forward were one of the many things that set him apart. You could argue that N’didi does few of these things, but his sheer pressing energy and ability to win tackles without fouling carry him through. He will, however, never be a truly great CDM due to the limitations I’ve described, which is probably why no bigger club has ever come in for him. Mendy, too, is another limited player, but uses the ball much more tidily and effectively than DA does. 
 

I’ve actually always thought his best position should be CB and was surprised why no manager had ever tried him there. He’s not limited by ability in that position and I guess my criticisms of him as a CB are more subjective: poor positioning, poor use of the ball, lack of confidence in possession when receiving the ball (and often picking the easiest pass because of this), error prone. Football is about opinions so either agree with me or not, although I’m willing to bet the vast majority would have agreed with me prior to the last few games. 
 

His recent form suggests that I might have misjudged him, but I still believe all of the above points are fair criticism based upon evidence on the pitch over a long period of time. So I don’t apologise for past observations or, in fact, think they were wrong. I actually think the “I told you so’s” on this thread must have been watching a different game to me over the past few seasons.
 

You call it as you see it and form is form - and his currently is the best form I’ve ever seen him in. If his current form continues then he will truly be a valued asset in the CB position. 

 

I note in passing that there seems to be a bit of goal post shifting here. The claim was 'he’s not good enough with the ball as a CDM'. Dragging Kante into the discussion (or explaining Ndidi's failure to be world class) is straying beyond what I would describe as the base level for a 'decent' PL CDM! 

 

Anyway, the nub of our disagreement is around his ability on the ball. I just don't agree he exhibits 'poor use of the ball', at least not compared to our other defenders (and yes, I include Castagne and Thomas in that - the former BTW has been pretty bobbins with the ball this season and was shocking against West Ham).

 

I don't think it's fair to dismiss his passing 'often picking the easiest pass'. He's generally been our one CB to attempt (and often succeed) through the lines passes, either from defence to midfield or less often (but on a few occassions eye-openingly) from midfield into the path of an attacker. Based on a very limited sample size (only two I can remember, but both belters) he's also got a fair old shot on him, which also speaks of a technique that belies his 'crabby' stance over a ball. And yes - I understand that he's not pleasing on the eye and looks perma-ungainly, but I feel that this is affecting people's (well, your) opinion too much - it's all a bit 'Moneyball/baseball face' for me. I see the crouching crab, I see the refusal to stroke the ball (he did it once, I swear), I see the look of maximum concentration... and more often than not I see a pass (and more often than he's given credit for, a progressive one) completed. 

 

He is I think, much more than most, a confidence player. Have to say I've got a lot of time for him, and would love to see what happens if this run continues and his confidence levels improve even more - one more reason to cuss the World Cup happening at this juncture, because he must have got a big fillip from Saturday's game. At the same time I'm aware that he could be one cock-up from us looking back on last Saturday as his high watermark in a Leicester shirt.

 

Thanks for replying BTW, and proving me wrong about not doing so! I'm going to pretend I had to force it out of you.

 

[fuchsntf]

2 hours ago, Jobyfox said:

Ok.

 

Modern full backs tend to have ability on the ball. I can’t see Amartey creating an overload with his winger and crossing the ball into the penalty area with any authority. I can’t see him being high up the field available to receive the ball. I can’t see him taking on the opposing LB and dribbling the ball around him. 
 

He might, just about, have the attributes to be a purely defensive RB. If we played a low block and a narrow four (as in 15/16) then maybe - but we’ve rarely played in that style under Brendan. Even then I would worry about him against the better wingers as he doesn’t have the mobility of smaller, more mobile players, who’ve made their career in that position. 
 

He’s never convinced me that he can use the ball well enough to be a good CDM. People often think CDMs are just defensive, but the very best ones are great passers of the ball or, failing that, have great energy to carry the ball forward progressively. Kante’s ability to initiate attacks and drive team’s forward were one of the many things that set him apart. You could argue that N’didi does few of these things, but his sheer pressing energy and ability to win tackles without fouling carry him through. He will, however, never be a truly great CDM due to the limitations I’ve described, which is probably why no bigger club has ever come in for him. Mendy, too, is another limited player, but uses the ball much more tidily and effectively than DA does. 
 

I’ve actually always thought his best position should be CB and was surprised why no manager had ever tried him there. He’s not limited by ability in that position and I guess my criticisms of him as a CB are more subjective: poor positioning, poor use of the ball, lack of confidence in possession when receiving the ball (and often picking the easiest pass because of this), error prone. Football is about opinions so either agree with me or not, although I’m willing to bet the vast majority would have agreed with me prior to the last few games. 
 

His recent form suggests that I might have misjudged him, but I still believe all of the above points are fair criticism based upon evidence on the pitch over a long period of time. So I don’t apologise for past observations or, in fact, think they were wrong. I actually think the “I told you so’s” on this thread must have been watching a different game to me over the past few seasons.
 

You call it as you see it and form is form - and his currently is the best form I’ve ever seen him in. If his current form continues then he will truly be a valued asset in the CB position. 

I reckon he’s already proved he is a Truely a valued asset at CB..

[Jobyfox]

36 minutes ago, turtmcfly said:

 

I note in passing that there seems to be a bit of goal post shifting here. The claim was 'he’s not good enough with the ball as a CDM'. Dragging Kante into the discussion (or explaining Ndidi's failure to be world class) is straying beyond what I would describe as the base level for a 'decent' PL CDM! 

 

Anyway, the nub of our disagreement is around his ability on the ball. I just don't agree he exhibits 'poor use of the ball', at least not compared to our other defenders (and yes, I include Castagne and Thomas in that - the former BTW has been pretty bobbins with the ball this season and was shocking against West Ham).

 

I don't think it's fair to dismiss his passing 'often picking the easiest pass'. He's generally been our one CB to attempt (and often succeed) through the lines passes, either from defence to midfield or less often (but on a few occassions eye-openingly) from midfield into the path of an attacker. Based on a very limited sample size (only two I can remember, but both belters) he's also got a fair old shot on him, which also speaks of a technique that belies his 'crabby' stance over a ball. And yes - I understand that he's not pleasing on the eye and looks perma-ungainly, but I feel that this is affecting people's (well, your) opinion too much - it's all a bit 'Moneyball/baseball face' for me. I see the crouching crab, I see the refusal to stroke the ball (he did it once, I swear), I see the look of maximum concentration... and more often than not I see a pass (and more often than he's given credit for, a progressive one) completed. 

 

He is I think, much more than most, a confidence player. Have to say I've got a lot of time for him, and would love to see what happens if this run continues and his confidence levels improve even more - one more reason to cuss the World Cup happening at this juncture, because he must have got a big fillip from Saturday's game. At the same time I'm aware that he could be one cock-up from us looking back on last Saturday as his high watermark in a Leicester shirt.

 

Thanks for replying BTW, and proving me wrong about not doing so! I'm going to pretend I had to force it out of you.

 

There is clearly a difference of opinion here so I won’t add any more to the RB debate. 
 

In terms of CDM I don’t really expect him to be as good as Kante or even N’didi. To get into the side in that position (assuming N’didi would usually be first choice) he’d only have to be better than Mendy or Soumare as first reserve - he isn’t. He had a run in that role (under Ranieri I think) and was pretty poor (or, at least, I thought he was poor you perhaps saw an ability with the ball I didn’t). That’s my opinion anyway, although I note that no manager since has given him an extended run as a CDM and instead tried to find his best position elsewhere.
 

One thing I do agree with you on is the confidence theory. For me Amartey’s best position always looked like CB, but I worried that a lot of his issues were to do with temperament as much as ability. It’s an area of the pitch where mistakes can be ruthlessly exposed. 
 

Maybe it’s just that Amartey has found a player in Faes who gives him the right platform to play. Just as Morgan’s form improved exponentially when Huth arrived all those years ago. 
 

Irrespective of what I think, you think, or anybody else thinks the recent stats for our defence speak for themselves (1 goal conceded in 6 games). Daniel has been an integral part of that and deserves his place in the side. 

[Jobyfox]

31 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

I reckon he’s already proved he is a Truely a valued asset at CB..

Yeah great.

 

To be honest I’m going to leave this thread now as, in wanting to make a particular point, I’ve found myself pointing out all of DAs limitations. It wasn’t really my intention to get into all that as, at the moment, we should just all be focusing on the good job he’s doing for the team. 
 

Long may it continue 

[turtmcfly]

1 hour ago, Jobyfox said:

There is clearly a difference of opinion here so I won’t add any more to the RB debate. 
 

In terms of CDM I don’t really expect him to be as good as Kante or even N’didi. To get into the side in that position (assuming N’didi would usually be first choice) he’d only have to be better than Mendy or Soumare as first reserve - he isn’t. He had a run in that role (under Ranieri I think) and was pretty poor (or, at least, I thought he was poor you perhaps saw an ability with the ball I didn’t). That’s my opinion anyway, although I note that no manager since has given him an extended run as a CDM and instead tried to find his best position elsewhere.
 

One thing I do agree with you on is the confidence theory. For me Amartey’s best position always looked like CB, but I worried that a lot of his issues were to do with temperament as much as ability. It’s an area of the pitch where mistakes can be ruthlessly exposed. 
 

Maybe it’s just that Amartey has found a player in Faes who gives him the right platform to play. Just as Morgan’s form improved exponentially when Huth arrived all those years ago. 
 

Irrespective of what I think, you think, or anybody else thinks the recent stats for our defence speak for themselves (1 goal conceded in 6 games). Daniel has been an integral part of that and deserves his place in the side. 

 

To be clear... I'm not remotely advocating a move to CDM or RB or that he'd be better for us there - I'm more than happy with the job he's doing now. I'm really just saying I'm not convinced he'd be as poor as you think he'd be.

 

Here's hoping he has a great World Cup... 

 

[Rawlings]

Today: GHANA VS. SWITZERLAND  2 - 0

In defence: Big Dan Amartey

The Clean sheet continues wherever he goes

Edited 17 November 2022 by Rawlings

[fuchsntf]

I reckon after this season..a lot of Omelettes & Humble Pie,will be well on the FT-forum-Menü.

Edited 17 November 2022 by fuchsntf

[Adrian]

All I know is the more I see him the more I like him... bombscares n all...there is an honesty about him and occasionally some.quality football 

[fox_favourite]

1 hour ago, Adrian said:

All I know is the more I see him the more I like him... bombscares n all...there is an honesty about him and occasionally some.quality football 

And some “no amartey, what are you doing??!!” moments. 

Edited 18 November 2022 by fox_favourite

[FosseSpark]

He's now a top premier league centre back. he's delivering clean sheets alongside faes and in front of ward and so has to be taken seriously. 

there's no one currently doing his job better than him in the prem, well done dan,  you're a ledge. if you were from leicester we'd be singing your name for 20mins per game and there's the rub

[Jobyfox]

15 hours ago, fuchsntf said:

I reckon after this season..a lot of Omelettes & Humble Pie,will be well on the FT-forum-Menü.

No not really.

 

That’s often the problem with forums like these. Everything is so absolute and people forget about the vagaries of form and fitness. 
 

DA is finally getting an extended run in the team in his best position and playing well. That doesn’t alter the fact that he failed to convince in so many of his other performances before this. 
 

I remember a few years ago the legendary player Steve Walsh. Everyone now remembers that he was one of our best ever CBs, but forget he was bloody awful when he first joined us from Wigan. 
 

Things can and do, change! 

[los dedos]

1 hour ago, Jobyfox said:

No not really.

 

That’s often the problem with forums like these. Everything is so absolute and people forget about the vagaries of form and fitness. 
 

DA is finally getting an extended run in the team in his best position and playing well. That doesn’t alter the fact that he failed to convince in so many of his other performances before this. 
 

I remember a few years ago the legendary player Steve Walsh. Everyone now remembers that he was one of our best ever CBs, but forget he was bloody awful when he first joined us from Wigan. 
 

Things can and do, change! 

I remember in Pen 3, Walshy regularly got called a "F***ing Donkey" in his 1st few games fir the club  .

[HighPeakFox]

I was always of the opinion that Walshy was a total liability until Brian Little turned up. 

[Suzie the Fox]

4 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

I was always of the opinion that Walshy was a total liability until Brian Little turned up. 

Heresy

[HighPeakFox]

Just now, Suzie the Fox said:

Heresy

He was crap too, Grandma. 

[Jobyfox]

Ha! It seems like a few people have been around long enough to remember when Steve Walsh was crap.

 

Maybe, if we wait long enough, even Vestergaard might come good. I’m sure it would give a few people the opportunity to trawl back through the: “Vestergaard signs” thread and find their positive comments; which would ultimately lead to the inevitable and infernal ‘I told you so’s …’ 

[ealingfox]

Got Ghana in the work sweepstake - BRING IT HOME DANIEL

[sacreblueits442]

On 12/11/2022 at 17:05, Tuna said:

Who knew Evans was the problem all along?

 

I'm half joking but we seem to have improved defensively with the current defensive pair, I don't expect Jonny to get his starting place back anytime soon.

....Faes has come in and organized the backline to suit his own strengths!!!

If someone came into your place of work and said, "I am going to ask you to do less work, but in certain areas I want you to do this....and whatever happens I will cover you if anything goes wrong". Most would jump at the chance, doing less work and doing what you are best at, you are going to feed off this and your performances will be great. Faes does seem to dovetail Amartey and that seems to be why it works. 

  We have not recently come up against teams with real firepower upfront, but we have given teams chances that they could not take. It will be interesting against the big boys, with a striker who only needs half a chance.

[urban fox]

1 hour ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....Faes has come in and organized the backline to suit his own strengths!!!

If someone came into your place of work and said, "I am going to ask you to do less work, but in certain areas I want you to do this....and whatever happens I will cover you if anything goes wrong". Most would jump at the chance, doing less work and doing what you are best at, you are going to feed off this and your performances will be great. Faes does seem to dovetail Amartey and that seems to be why it works. 

  We have not recently come up against teams with real firepower upfront, but we have given teams chances that they could not take. It will be interesting against the big boys, with a striker who only needs half a chance.

We only conceded against man city to a kdb worldie  otherwise they hardly had a sniff

Edited 19 November 2022 by urban fox

[filbertway]

51 minutes ago, urban fox said:

We only conceded against man city to a kdb worldie  otherwise they hardly had a sniff

I don't think playing an 11-0-0 formation against all of the top half teams is probably sustainable

[ithuriel]

1 minute ago, filbertway said:

I don't think playing an 11-0-0 formation against all of the top half teams is probably sustainable

But we can give it a try 

[Rawlings]

Reminder: Big Dan has played the full 90 minutes in his last 7 games and just a single goal against.

• 17/11/22 Ghana 2 - 0 Switzerland   (No Wout , No problem)
• 12/11/22 West Ham United 0 - 2 Leicester City
• 05/11/22 Everton 0 - 2 Leicester City
• 29/10/22 Leicester City 0 - 1 Manchester City
• 23/10/22 Wolverhampton Wanderers 0 - 4 Leicester City
• 20/10/22 Leicester City 2 - 0 Leeds United
• 15/10/22 Leicester City 0 - 0 Crystal Palace

How many defenders in the EPL can boast of this record?

[Stadt]

Even at his worst last season most of his errors were a result of a structural failure rather solely his errors. He’s a good one-on-defender and his passing he deceptively good, he looks awkward and but the outcomes are positive.

 

Is the answer long term? Certainly not but for £6m he’s been an great asset as a squad player. 133 apps and our joint most decorated player.

Edited 19 November 2022 by Stadt