Amartey

[filbertway]

16 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

Perhaps he is the natural successor to Jonny?  

I dont think so, hes definitely suited to us being more backs to the wall. He can be a colossus. He's certainly not the type of cb we should be classing as a first choice and building the defence around though.

 

His decision making can be very iffy as can his ball playing, especially when he has time on the ball and needs to pick an accurate pass. 

 

Hes proven himself over the past few seasons to be more than adequate as a back up though.

 

I do wonder if the extra game time will make him question whether he would rather be a first choice cb somewhere else though.

[VLC86]

52 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Player of the month? He's been a step above anyone else for a good 2 and a half months now. And even discounting the average or even just good games, he's had 3 or 4 times more match winning performances this season than bad games. Maddison has 7 goals and 6 assists in the equivalent of 18 90mins - which is the numbers most wingers or strikers get, not attacking midfielders. He's been statically the best attacking midfielder in the division this season. Better than De Bruyne, Fernandes or whoever else.

It goes back to the same discussion we have every year though with POTY, that Leicester fans are bizarrely absolutely obsessed with defenders and so defenders win it more times than goalkeepers, midfielders and forwards put together. The height of which being an error prone Harry Maguire in a defence which leaked goals beating Jamie Vardy who scored 20 league goals off about 46 chances under Puel in a side that created nothing for him and pretty much single handedly dragged us from being relegation battlers to a to half side.

Because most fans always harp on about "consistency" when that means a game where a defender is anonymous because we dominate the game and they're not needed so we generally win counts as a good game as defender, whereas a game where an attacker is anonymous because they get zero service and our defence and midfield are so poor is considered a bad game for an attacker - not to mention that attacking players are by definition always going to be less consistent anyway because they're judged by much rarer and bigger moments in creating opportunities.

Amartey has started 9 PL games - we've won 5 and lost 4, conceding 19 goals - that's more than 2 goals a game. I'm not saying he's been awful, but making out he's been our best player and then trying to bat away Maddison as just being good for a single month (when Amartey has  barely even played the equivalent of 2 months) just makes me scratch my head a bit as to where you're coming from.

Maddison has also had more match winning games than Amartey has even featured in, let alone started in. Maddison has probably earnt us 3 times the number of points this season than Amartey has. I find it bizarre you're even entertaining the discussion that you think Amartey would be a more worthy winner of our POTY than Maddison so far. But that's Leicester fans and their obsession with defenders I guess and complete lack of acknowledgement of how good our attackers are and how extremely rare it is and what a high level it is to find an attacking player who scores or creates a goal every other game, let alone more than that. I'll never understand it. I think Vardy has almost made us numb to it in a lot of ways. Look at Chelsea last season - won the CL and their top scorer and top assisters got about 6 each. To reach double figures as a forward in either goals or assists is extremely rare, Maddison is set to do both at his current rate - only Mahrez has managed that before for us in our title winning season.

Maddison has been our best player since mid October? He scored his first goal of the season away to Brentford 2 months ago and didn’t score another until 24th November V Legia registering 1 assist in that’s month.

 

His next league goal was against Watford on 28th November and I’m not sure I would count him as MOTM in any games before that match.

 

Amartey was in the defence first game of the season that kept a clean sheet, dropped until MOTM V Norwich, next appearance was a clean sheet in the cup,  shit v Legia as was everyone, good V United, probably MOTM V Brentford, shit V Arsenal etc etc. 

 

Not sure where you are going with your bizarre rant on defenders but don’t drag me into any argument suggesting Maguire was a stand out player. I’ve consistently said he was our worst defender.

 

On the % of games played and good performances he is right up there for POTS. Obviously if Maddison replicates his form since mid November he will be but we have been here before with him. Happy for you to quote me at the end of the season.

[Guest ttfn]

6 hours ago, Costock_Fox said:

Maddison has been our best player since mid October? He scored his first goal of the season away to Brentford 2 months ago and didn’t score another until 24th November V Legia registering 1 assist in that’s month.

 

His next league goal was against Watford on 28th November and I’m not sure I would count him as MOTM in any games before that match.

 

Amartey was in the defence first game of the season that kept a clean sheet, dropped until MOTM V Norwich, next appearance was a clean sheet in the cup,  shit v Legia as was everyone, good V United, probably MOTM V Brentford, shit V Arsenal etc etc. 

 

Not sure where you are going with your bizarre rant on defenders but don’t drag me into any argument suggesting Maguire was a stand out player. I’ve consistently said he was our worst defender.

 

On the % of games played and good performances he is right up there for POTS. Obviously if Maddison replicates his form since mid November he will be but we have been here before with him. Happy for you to quote me at the end of the season.

Amazing recency bias with Maddison from some, he’s been excellent for the last month but before the middle of October he was a hindrance to the team. He’s been brilliant and hopeless in equal measure.
 

Amartey has been good all season, it’s not his fault the rest of the defence has leaked like a sieve. He’s not perfect but he’s been a consistent 7/10 for most of the season.

[Sampson]

13 hours ago, Costock_Fox said:

Maddison has been our best player since mid October? He scored his first goal of the season away to Brentford 2 months ago and didn’t score another until 24th November V Legia registering 1 assist in that’s month.

 

His next league goal was against Watford on 28th November and I’m not sure I would count him as MOTM in any games before that match.

 

Amartey was in the defence first game of the season that kept a clean sheet, dropped until MOTM V Norwich, next appearance was a clean sheet in the cup,  shit v Legia as was everyone, good V United, probably MOTM V Brentford, shit V Arsenal etc etc. 

 

Not sure where you are going with your bizarre rant on defenders but don’t drag me into any argument suggesting Maguire was a stand out player. I’ve consistently said he was our worst defender.

 

On the % of games played and good performances he is right up there for POTS. Obviously if Maddison replicates his form since mid November he will be but we have been here before with him. Happy for you to quote me at the end of the season.

 

What are you talking about just goals? Maddison completely ran the game vs Spartak, getting an assist and being directly involved/playing the defence splitting pass in 3 of the 4 goals and was excellent vs Man Utd as well. in mid October before his goal vs Brentford. He's been superb since the Man United game.

 

 

7 hours ago, ttfn said:

Amazing recency bias with Maddison from some, he’s been excellent for the last month but before the middle of October he was a hindrance to the team. He’s been brilliant and hopeless in equal measure.
 

Amartey has been good all season, it’s not his fault the rest of the defence has leaked like a sieve. He’s not perfect but he’s been a consistent 7/10 for most of the season.

It's not recency bias, it's the understanding that he's had many more great performances than bad ones, because from mid-October is the large majority of the season given how less frequent the games are in August and September because of the late start and international breaks which have come in those moths anyway! Everyone knows it took Maddison a while to get going and Maddison's first 6 starts up to the Man Utd game weren't great, but people also judge him as poorly in ways they wouldn't judge a defender poorly for the same things, which is my point - but he's now made 2 or 3 times the number of performances since then which have been superb and Maddison has had more good games than Amarteg has played. Its the opposite of recency bias - it's you judging him on a small number of games at the start of the season because it was a streak rather than as a whole over the season. If those first games were spaced out throughout the season rather than all at the beginning meaning everyone was ranking about poor form, then everyone would be saying Maddison is having an incredible season.

 

How is it not also recency bias to mention a player who has the even started half our games ffs. Then talking down Maddison who's *only* been good since mid-Octoober, which has been the large majority of our games.

 

Saying Amartey has been good all season and it's not his fault 5the defence has leaked goals is exactly my point about Leicester fans bizarre obsession - that unless a defender directly obviously slips or passes the ball to an opposition which leads directly to a goal (not even a chance) then he is considered to have a good game by default. Whereas an attacking player is considered to have a bad game by default and has to earn it.

 

I don't want to play this game but if we have to

 

1-4 vs West Ham - 1st goal - Amartey ball watching while Benrhama gets the cut back directly behind him.

3rd goal - Amartey gets nutmegged by Rice's cross when he's about 2 yards in front of him and it should be an easy block

4th goal - Amartey plays Antonio onside, doesn't mark Antonio leaving him free in the middle, then throws a lazy foot at the cross missing it and giving Antonio essentially an open goal

 

2-4 vs Man United – 2nd goal – him and Evans gets split by a simple straight long ball which should be defending 101.

Leicester 1-2 Brentford – Not directly responsible for a goal, but allowed Toney at least 2 if not 3 gilt-edge chances because he kept being beaten to him in mid air, The header at the end of the first half being most obvious when Toney starts about 3 yards behind him and Amartey stands there like a statue while Toney walks round him for a free header

0-2 vs Arsenal – 2nd goal - lazily walks towards Smith-Rowe and makes himself small in a shot he really should have blocked.

0-3 vs Chelsea – 3rd goal – ball watching and lelts Pulisic run in front of him while he’s rooted to the ground like a statue

3-6 vs Man City – 5th goal is weird, not sure he can 100% get there, but he just watches it rather than trying to stick a leg out/throw himself at it when it’s actually really close to him, looping at not a particularly fast pace.
6th goal – Sterling should be his man but he lets him peel off him

Again – not necessarily saying he’s being poor – but he’s played 9 games and certainly been culpable for goals in several of them – the West Ham game especially he was atrocious in, but the point is, these kind of things aren’t remembered for defenders, whereas a poor game for an attacker is not being involved because they have no service and so people just say "they've been consistent", it’s bizarre.

The biggest thing about Amartey watching back the goals though is how slow he is in closing down/charging down blocks though – even when he attempts them, he always seems to do it half-heartedly/at a snail’s pace.

Amartey probably has been the better player of our centre backs in the few games he's played but that's saying nothing this season and I honestly find it quite bewildering that both of you are genuinely entertaining the argument that Amartey is POTY or a better choice than the likes of Vardy or Maddison here, but that's Leicester fans and how they judge defenders compared to how the judge attackers in a nutshell, there's so much a lower bar to being judged as a good defender.

Edited 30 December 2021 by Sampson

[Guest ttfn]

1 hour ago, Sampson said:

 

What are you talking about just goals? Maddison completely ran the game vs Spartak, getting an assist and being directly involved/playing the defence splitting pass in 3 of the 4 goals and was excellent vs Man Utd as well. in mid October before his goal vs Brentford. He's been superb since the Man United game.

 

 

It's not recency bias, it's the understanding that he's had many more great performances than bad ones, because from mid-October is the large majority of the season given how less frequent the games are in August and September because of the late start and international breaks which have come in those moths anyway! Everyone knows it took Maddison a while to get going and Maddison's first 6 starts up to the Man Utd game weren't great, but people also judge him as poorly in ways they wouldn't judge a defender poorly for the same things, which is my point - but he's now made 2 or 3 times the number of performances since then which have been superb and Maddison has had more good games than Amarteg has played. Its the opposite of recency bias - it's you judging him on a small number of games at the start of the season because it was a streak rather than as a whole over the season. If those first games were spaced out throughout the season rather than all at the beginning meaning everyone was ranking about poor form, then everyone would be saying Maddison is having an incredible season.

 

How is it not also recency bias to mention a player who has the even started half our games ffs. Then talking down Maddison who's *only* been good since mid-Octoober, which has been the large majority of our games.

 

Saying Amartey has been good all season and it's not his fault 5the defence has leaked goals is exactly my point about Leicester fans bizarre obsession - that unless a defender directly obviously slips or passes the ball to an opposition which leads directly to a goal (not even a chance) then he is considered to have a good game by default. Whereas an attacking player is considered to have a bad game by default and has to earn it.

 

I don't want to play this game but if we have to

 

1-4 vs West Ham - 1st goal - Amartey ball watching while Benrhama gets the cut back directly behind him.

3rd goal - Amartey gets nutmegged by Rice's cross when he's about 2 yards in front of him and it should be an easy block

4th goal - Amartey plays Antonio onside, doesn't mark Antonio leaving him free in the middle, then throws a lazy foot at the cross missing it and giving Antonio essentially an open goal

 

2-4 vs Man United – 2nd goal – him and Evans gets split by a simple straight long ball which should be defending 101.

Leicester 1-2 Brentford – Not directly responsible for a goal, but allowed Toney at least 2 if not 3 gilt-edge chances because he kept being beaten to him in mid air, The header at the end of the first half being most obvious when Toney starts about 3 yards behind him and Amartey stands there like a statue while Toney walks round him for a free header

0-2 vs Arsenal – 2nd goal - lazily walks towards Smith-Rowe and makes himself small in a shot he really should have blocked.

0-3 vs Chelsea – 3rd goal – ball watching and lelts Pulisic run in front of him while he’s rooted to the ground like a statue

3-6 vs Man City – 5th goal is weird, not sure he can 100% get there, but he just watches it rather than trying to stick a leg out/throw himself at it when it’s actually really close to him, looping at not a particularly fast pace.
6th goal – Sterling should be his man but he lets him peel off him

Again – not necessarily saying he’s being poor – but he’s played 9 games and certainly been culpable for goals in several of them – the West Ham game especially he was atrocious in, but the point is, these kind of things aren’t remembered for defenders, whereas a poor game for an attacker is not being involved because they have no service and so people just say "they've been consistent", it’s bizarre.

The biggest thing about Amartey watching back the goals though is how slow he is in closing down/charging down blocks though – even when he attempts them, he always seems to do it half-heartedly/at a snail’s pace.

Amartey probably has been the better player of our centre backs in the few games he's played but that's saying nothing this season and I honestly find it quite bewildering that both of you are genuinely entertaining the argument that Amartey is POTY or a better choice than the likes of Vardy or Maddison here, but that's Leicester fans and how they judge defenders compared to how the judge attackers in a nutshell, there's so much a lower bar to being judged as a good defender.

I hope you feel better for having written all that!

 

I’m not going to argue with any of what you’ve written about Amartey - I don’t think he’s perfect but I think he’s been a consistent positive in  an otherwise disappointing season. 
 

But it is recency bias with Maddison - say what you like about Amartey but your assertion that Maddison has been good in the “large majority” of our games is just plain wrong, he brought nothing of value to the side until the Spartak game (so the first 10 games) was getting better but still pretty ineffective until the Legia home game (the next 6) and has been very good since (the next 8).
 

As I said, he’s been (very) bad as often as he’s been (very) good this season, he’s got an astonishing number of goals and assists in the last 8 games but before that he had 2 goal contributions in 16 games. 

[Sampson]

48 minutes ago, ttfn said:

I hope you feel better for having written all that!

 

I’m not going to argue with any of what you’ve written about Amartey - I don’t think he’s perfect but I think he’s been a consistent positive in  an otherwise disappointing season. 
 

But it is recency bias with Maddison - say what you like about Amartey but your assertion that Maddison has been good in the “large majority” of our games is just plain wrong, he brought nothing of value to the side until the Spartak game (so the first 10 games) was getting better but still pretty ineffective until the Legia home game (the next 6) and has been very good since (the next 8).
 

As I said, he’s been (very) bad as often as he’s been (very) good this season, he’s got an astonishing number of goals and assists in the last 8 games but before that he had 2 goal contributions in 16 games. 

And half those games Maddison came on for about 10 minutes at the end and barely got the ball passed to him. How can you say Amartey has been POTY when he's not even played half our games then criticise Maddison for games he barely played in and make out they're the equivalent and balance out a full 90 minutes where he runs the show?

 

Maddison was great vs Man Utd for starters. And before that game he played 423 minutes or the equivalent of 4.7 games. Not 9 full games.

 

Between the Spartak and Legia games, he started 2 games and scored in one of them vs Brentford (also scored in the penalty shootout vs Brighton in the League Cup after coming on at the end but that's still a performance you're counting as 1 full bad game but whatever)! I've heard of agendas and spinning numbers, but to spin that as making that out to be 6 bad games for him to make out he's been bad as often as he's been good is bizarre to say the least!

 

It's not 2 goal contributions in his first 16 full games and you know that very well, it's 2 goal contributions in the equivalent of about 7 full games which is hardly even bad.

 

It's not recency bias, it's just accepting he's been great far more than he has been bad and he's been great more than Amartey has even played.

 

But when you're got a weird agenda on criticising him for 10 minute cameos where the ball barely comes his way as shit performances and you're judging them as a weird false equivalent as 1 good full match performance. I'm pretty sure you know very well that's bullshit and was hoping I didn't even check!

 

And for the 4th time! "Nothing of note" in a game he played 15 minutes off the bench when we're defending and he barely touches the ball is exactly the shit I'm talking about. That is considered bad for an attacker, yet if a defender does nothing of note, he is considered "solid" or "consistent". It's such a skewed way of judging defenders or attackers - you don't measure Amartey on his goal saving blocks or challenges like you measure Maddison or Vardy solely on creating or finishing goals. But if a defender has a quiet game he's generally considered "solid".

 

Amartey started 9 league games - in at least 2 of those vs Brentford and West Ham he was completely run ragged, was directly responsible for 3 West Ham goals and Toney had him on toast and should've scored a hattrick against him if he could finish (but because he didn't it doesn't get remembered which is my point about defenders) and he absolutely could've done better along with other defenders on goals we conceded vs ManUtd, Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal  - but again, the way defenders are judged is so much a lower bar than attackers that unless you literally pass the ball back to the opposition and they score from it you're considered to have a "solid" game and have been "consistent".

 

So yeah, he's had probably 5 good full PL games, which is fine and probably better than our other centre backs but come on, seriously? Its obviously just beyond daft to try and claim he's been better than Vardy or Maddison and our POTY! Especially when you're very deliberately and very disingenuously counting a 10 minute substitute cameo where the ball is up the other end of the pitch as a shit performance from Maddison equivalent to a full game where he runs the show.

Edited 30 December 2021 by Sampson

[JamesWelshFox]

Amartey's career didn't really go the way anyone expected when he joined. Injuries, the vagaries of various managers, arrival of technically better players, but you cannot fault this lads commitment to the club, his willingness to play wherever asked, in whatever system, to sit on he bench and not moan. His place at the club may not be secure in the future but we would have been in trouble without him this season for sure. Will always be a top bloke in my opinion.

[urban fox]

I like big Dan. Never going to be a star or get the headlines but has been a model pro for us. People forget that he was out for almost 2 years due to the horrible ankle break. It’s a miracle he even played again, never mind at this level after that.

He could have been pensioned off but the club stuck by him and it looks like he is trying his best to show loyalty in return.

every club needs a big Dan and an Albrighton in their squads.

[ParkerPen]

looks like @Col city fan has passed on the baton

[Sampson]

4 minutes ago, ParkerPen said:

looks like @Col city fan has passed on the baton

Why? I'm not saying he's shit, just that calling him Player of the Season or more deserving of than Vardy or Maddison is obviously just daft when he's not even featured that much and has had some poor performances like anyone this season. I don't think he's shit think he's good for a 4th choice centre-back.

Why is calling a player anything other than Player of the Season, calling him shit?

[ParkerPen]

2 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Why? I'm not saying he's shit, just that calling him Player of the Season or more deserving of than Vardy or Maddison is obviously just daft when he's not even featured that much and has had some poor performances like anyone this season. I don't think he's shit think he's good for a 4th choice centre-back.

Why is calling a player anything other than Player of the Season, calling him shit?

relax i'm just pulling your leg

[Clarkey123]

Most deserving of a new contract of anyone in the squad at the mo in my opinion 

[Guest ttfn]

1 hour ago, Sampson said:

And half those games Maddison came on for about 10 minutes at the end and barely got the ball passed to him. How can you say Amartey has been POTY when he's not even played half our games then criticise Maddison for games he barely played in and make out they're the equivalent and balance out a full 90 minutes where he runs the show?

 

Maddison was great vs Man Utd for starters. And before that game he played 423 minutes or the equivalent of 4.7 games. Not 9 full games.

 

Between the Spartak and Legia games, he started 2 games and scored in one of them vs Brentford (also scored in the penalty shootout vs Brighton in the League Cup after coming on at the end but that's still a performance you're counting as 1 full bad game but whatever)! I've heard of agendas and spinning numbers, but to spin that as making that out to be 6 bad games for him to make out he's been bad as often as he's been good is bizarre to say the least!

 

It's not 2 goal contributions in his first 16 full games and you know that very well, it's 2 goal contributions in the equivalent of about 7 full games which is hardly even bad.

 

It's not recency bias, it's just accepting he's been great far more than he has been bad and he's been great more than Amartey has even played.

 

But when you're got a weird agenda on criticising him for 10 minute cameos where the ball barely comes his way as shit performances and you're judging them as a weird false equivalent as 1 good full match performance. I'm pretty sure you know very well that's bullshit and was hoping I didn't even check!

 

And for the 4th time! "Nothing of note" in a game he played 15 minutes off the bench when we're defending and he barely touches the ball is exactly the shit I'm talking about. That is considered bad for an attacker, yet if a defender does nothing of note, he is considered "solid" or "consistent". It's such a skewed way of judging defenders or attackers - you don't measure Amartey on his goal saving blocks or challenges like you measure Maddison or Vardy solely on creating or finishing goals. But if a defender has a quiet game he's generally considered "solid".

 

Amartey started 9 league games - in at least 2 of those vs Brentford and West Ham he was completely run ragged, was directly responsible for 3 West Ham goals and Toney had him on toast and should've scored a hattrick against him if he could finish (but because he didn't it doesn't get remembered which is my point about defenders) and he absolutely could've done better along with other defenders on goals we conceded vs ManUtd, Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal  - but again, the way defenders are judged is so much a lower bar than attackers that unless you literally pass the ball back to the opposition and they score from it you're considered to have a "solid" game and have been "consistent".

 

So yeah, he's had probably 5 good full PL games, which is fine and probably better than our other centre backs but come on, seriously? Its obviously just beyond daft to try and claim he's been better than Vardy or Maddison and our POTY! Especially when you're very deliberately and very disingenuously counting a 10 minute substitute cameo where the ball is up the other end of the pitch as a shit performance from Maddison equivalent to a full game where he runs the show.

A few observations:

1) Attackers and defenders have always been judged differently, this is not about me or Leicester fans or anybody else, doing nothing of note has always been a sign of a reasonable performance by a defender, doing nothing of note in a low scoring sport is never going to earn you plaudits as an attacker. I’m not sure why you’re treating this like it’s some brand new thing or a sleight against Maddison and Vardy, it’s not.

2) I don’t recall Maddison being great against Man United at all. In fact per the FT match ratings he had the lowest rating of the outfield players. A game in which he managed 0 key passes and we scored 3 of our 4 goals in the 17 minutes after he went off.

3) I never said it was 16 full games, I said it was 16 games. Those are 16 games he was available for selection in and 16 games in which he contributed very little whichever way you cut it. There’s absolutely nothing disingenuous about it, players should be judged on their output, Maddison’s has been excellent recently, it was almost non-existent until mid-November. I didn’t doubt for a moment that somebody prepared to write a 1,000 word missive on why Maddison is our POTS would look up how many minutes he’s played, I just don’t think it’s relevant. They don’t give out prizes for per 90 contributions.
4) If we’re talking about disingenuous, you’re the one putting words in my mouth, the 6 games in the middle (including the Brighton game he played very little of) I didn’t consider to be games he’d played badly in at all, they fell into the average category, I think that was pretty clear. 

 

I get it, you like Maddison, you think he’s player of the season. I don’t. It’s not a “weird agenda”, it’s a difference of opinion. As usual he has been extraordinary for 6 weeks, getting up to standard for a few weeks and (generously) mediocre before that. Maybe in an underwhelming season like this that puts him in the frame. Hopefully what we can agree on is that he is playing brilliantly at the moment and if he carries on like this then it will make what happened from August to October irrelevant.

 

And you’re probably right about Amartey being POTS. He’s not been our best player, but he has certainly been my favourite. So he’s my POTS, even if he’s not yours.

[StriderHiryu]

 

Dan the man taking it easy!

[RumbleFox]

1 hour ago, Sampson said:

Why? I'm not saying he's shit, just that calling him Player of the Season or more deserving of than Vardy or Maddison is obviously just daft when he's not even featured that much and has had some poor performances like anyone this season. I don't think he's shit think he's good for a 4th choice centre-back.

Why is calling a player anything other than Player of the Season, calling him shit?

I think it was a bit of a joke me duck. 

[Vardinio'sCat]

Best CB this season, imho. I think he is a victim of his versatility, but he has matured beyond the point of being a utility player.

 

If I was him I would be looking to move for regular starts.

[Lako42]

I love this chap. 

 

Badly need players like him in this squad. 

 

New contract please

[Sampson]

40 minutes ago, ttfn said:

A few observations:

1) Attackers and defenders have always been judged differently, this is not about me or Leicester fans or anybody else, doing nothing of note has always been a sign of a reasonable performance by a defender, doing nothing of note in a low scoring sport is never going to earn you plaudits as an attacker. I’m not sure why you’re treating this like it’s some brand new thing or a sleight against Maddison and Vardy, it’s not.

2) I don’t recall Maddison being great against Man United at all. In fact per the FT match ratings he had the lowest rating of the outfield players. A game in which he managed 0 key passes and we scored 3 of our 4 goals in the 17 minutes after he went off.

3) I never said it was 16 full games, I said it was 16 games. Those are 16 games he was available for selection in and 16 games in which he contributed very little whichever way you cut it. There’s absolutely nothing disingenuous about it, players should be judged on their output, Maddison’s has been excellent recently, it was almost non-existent until mid-November. I didn’t doubt for a moment that somebody prepared to write a 1,000 word missive on why Maddison is our POTS would look up how many minutes he’s played, I just don’t think it’s relevant. They don’t give out prizes for per 90 contributions.
4) If we’re talking about disingenuous, you’re the one putting words in my mouth, the 6 games in the middle (including the Brighton game he played very little of) I didn’t consider to be games he’d played badly in at all, they fell into the average category, I think that was pretty clear. 

 

I get it, you like Maddison, you think he’s player of the season. I don’t. It’s not a “weird agenda”, it’s a difference of opinion. As usual he has been extraordinary for 6 weeks, getting up to standard for a few weeks and (generously) mediocre before that. Maybe in an underwhelming season like this that puts him in the frame. Hopefully what we can agree on is that he is playing brilliantly at the moment and if he carries on like this then it will make what happened from August to October irrelevant.

 

And you’re probably right about Amartey being POTS. He’s not been our best player, but he has certainly been my favourite. So he’s my POTS, even if he’s not yours.

1. It  absolutely is a brand new thing though! - and it's largely due to social media assists becoming a thing in Fantasy Football about 10-15 years ago - it's the general changing of modern football. Players who never really got the numbers that Maddison got - like Emile Heskey or Muzzy Izzet for example were never put down anywhere near the same because of their lack of goals or assists, both would've got slaughtered on modern social media. But most people accepted that outside of maybe the absolute elite attackers in the world, most attackers don't even create or score goals every other game, let alone every game. It used to be that if you had a strike rate of 1 goal every 180 minutes you were considered an exceptional striker, nowadays people moan that a player is erratic if a player doesn't get a goal or assist in a single game. The numbers that Maddison has got so far this season put him o for 10+ goals and 10+ assists if he averages the same over the second half of the season, probably only Mahrez has got those kind of numbers in a top flight season for us over the past 30 or 40 years, but people still moan because he didn't do anything in games he came off the bench to play the last 10 minutes in or for one spell of 6 starts at the beginning of the season, he was outright bad (or very abd in your words) and deserves no praise - it's just ludicrous.

2. That's  fine, we'll agree to disagree on that game, but I don't see how you can say he was outright bad in that game.

3. And that's exactly the point! And that's exactly what's so disingenuous about it! You're measuring Maddison against criteria which you're giving Amartey a complete free pass against exactly the same criteria. It's bizarre that you're holding against Maddison the fact he wasn't picked, but not Amartey! It's bizarre that you're saying Maddison did nothing until mid-November (when you even admit he had good games before then and most of the games you say he did nothing, you admit he barely actually played in) - again if Maddison's great games had been more spread out and those first poor 6 games had been then you wouldn't even be debating this. But not saying the same about Amartey!  Amartey hasn't been picked most games soit's exactly the same criteria you can say he has done nothing! You ignore Amartey's poor performances and performances which actively led to conceding goals but pick up on games Maddison didn't even play in - and then actively ignore games Amartey didn't een play in. It's obviously extremely deliberately and disingenuously attacking Maddison against one criteria but then completely ignoring Amartey against exactly the same criteria. 

I never actually said Maddison should be our POTS, I think Vardy should be just ahead of Maddison, but I certainly think Maddison is a far more credible answer to that question than Amartey and genuinely cannot believe that people here are slating the suggestion of Maddison as POTS based on the criteria of him not playing or coming off the bench while championing Amartey.

4. Of course it's disingenuous! You're deliberately trying to make out that was a whole run of 6 full games which he was average - and giving all 6 games a false equivalency. Considering him "average" based on 6 games - only 2 of which were starts (1 of which he scored the winner in), 1 of which he didn't feature in, 1 of which was a League Cup match he was brought on soley at the end to take a penalty int he shoot-out (which he scored) and the other 2 he was brought on at when the opposition had all the possession vs Leeds and Chelsea then barely got a chance to touch the ball.

If he's your favourite player that's fine, but when he's not even featured in half our games, then why the hell are you trying to put another player down based on games which he either didn't or barely featured either? It's such a bizarre campaign you've got against Maddison here.

[Sampson]

30 minutes ago, RumbleFox said:

I think it was a bit of a joke me duck. 

Fair enough, but my posts are defending some obviously weird and completely disingenuous criticisms of Maddison, not attacking Amartey.

I'm not saying Amartey has been poor or average by not even playing, when Maddison apparently is.

Edited 30 December 2021 by Sampson

[RumbleFox]

8 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Fair enough, but my posts are defending some obviously weird and completely disingenuous criticisms of Maddison, not attacking Amartey.

I'm not saying Amartey has been poor or average by not even playing, when Maddison apparently is.

I think most of us get that. It’s always a case of both sides going for it, not listening to each other thendoubling down. If you take a step back you might agree that Maddison was a bit poor at the start of the season. Just as those arguing with you can surely see you’re not slagging off amartey. 

[Guest ttfn]

23 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Fair enough, but my posts are defending some obviously weird and disingenuous criticisms of Maddison, not attacking Amartey.

Look I’m happy to have a disagreement about Maddison but I am absolutely not having you repeatedly calling me disingenuous for pointing out the fact that Maddison contributed nothing for 3 months. I think your use of statistics in this context is hopelessly misguided but I am not going to sit here and repeatedly call you disingenuous as it pre-supposes a level of bad faith I wouldn’t presume of somebody I don’t know.

Edited 30 December 2021 by ttfn

[FoxinNotts]

Now that the Norwich game is off, just need him, nacho and ndidi to get a quick bout of COVID, so that they can’t travel to the AFCON. Can’t be that hard to do

[lcfc sheff]

1 hour ago, FoxinNotts said:

Now that the Norwich game is off, just need him, nacho and ndidi to get a quick bout of COVID, so that they can’t travel to the AFCON. Can’t be that hard to do

A quick Perez party should do it nicely 

[iancognito]

1 hour ago, FoxinNotts said:

Now that the Norwich game is off, just need him, nacho and ndidi to get a quick bout of COVID, so that they can’t travel to the AFCON. Can’t be that hard to do

Except he only came back from Covid before the Man City game

I can't believe we haven't offered him some sort of extension or at least a rolling deal yet. He can cover 2 or 3 positions and has been here for near on 6 years.

[rachhere]

Hide his passport.