Amartey

[ARM1968]

Bloke is one of THE best squad players you could wish for. We won’t find another as good or versatile for a long time. 

[Sampson]

3 hours ago, ttfn said:

Look I’m happy to have a disagreement about Maddison but I am absolutely not having you repeatedly calling me disingenuous for pointing out the fact that Maddison contributed nothing for 3 months. I think your use of statistics in this context is hopelessly misguided but I am not going to sit here and repeatedly call you disingenuous as it pre-supposes a level of bad faith I wouldn’t presume of somebody I don’t know.

I don't know you and I'm not having a go at you personally at all, I'm not calling you disingenuous for saying Maddison contributed nothing for 3 months or whatever you think of the context of which I use my statistics You can think of me as hopelessly misguided all you like for thinking that 10 minutes off the bench or not even playing isn't automatically a shit or average performance, I don't mind.

I was using per 90 minutes stats, as most major statistics websites do, because they're a fairer reflection of substitute performances or players coming off injured or games which they don't play. If you think that's horribly misguided then fair enough, that's up to you.

I'm calling you disingenuous for saying that because Maddison literally didn't even play in a game he did nothing or that it is considered as a game in which he was average or even poor, but then not saying exactly the same thing for all the games which Amartey didn't even play in!

It's not presupposing anything about anyone as a person, just that bizarre part of your argument and that it is an incredibly bad faith and frankly, utterly bizarre argument to say someone someone was poor or average for a string of games in which he didn't even play or else played about 10 minutes at the end, in one occasion coming on the pitch of the end of a League Cup tie just so he could take a penalty in the shootout - but then not saying exactly the same thing about games which another player didn't feature in or came off the bench at the end. That's what I'm calling incredibly and deliberately disingenuous! And you clearly are being deliberately disingenuous with this part of your argument.

If you want to slate Maddison for being poor, average or doing nothing in games he barely or didn't feature in then fine - it's a very strange argument in my mind, but if you want to make it then that's up to you. But then it absolutely is disingenuous not to accept that by your own argument Amartey also did nothing in the 12 matches he didn't play in and the 2 matches he barely featured off the bench too.

Edited 30 December 2021 by Sampson

[ARM1968]

10 hours ago, Sampson said:

I don't know you and I'm not having a go at you personally at all, I'm not calling you disingenuous for saying Maddison contributed nothing for 3 months or whatever you think of the context of which I use my statistics You can think of me as hopelessly misguided all you like for thinking that 10 minutes off the bench or not even playing isn't automatically a shit or average performance, I don't mind.

I was using per 90 minutes stats, as most major statistics websites do, because they're a fairer reflection of substitute performances or players coming off injured or games which they don't play. If you think that's horribly misguided then fair enough, that's up to you.

I'm calling you disingenuous for saying that because Maddison literally didn't even play in a game he did nothing or that it is considered as a game in which he was average or even poor, but then not saying exactly the same thing for all the games which Amartey didn't even play in!

It's not presupposing anything about anyone as a person, just that bizarre part of your argument and that it is an incredibly bad faith and frankly, utterly bizarre argument to say someone someone was poor or average for a string of games in which he didn't even play or else played about 10 minutes at the end, in one occasion coming on the pitch of the end of a League Cup tie just so he could take a penalty in the shootout - but then not saying exactly the same thing about games which another player didn't feature in or came off the bench at the end. That's what I'm calling incredibly and deliberately disingenuous! And you clearly are being deliberately disingenuous with this part of your argument.

If you want to slate Maddison for being poor, average or doing nothing in games he barely or didn't feature in then fine - it's a very strange argument in my mind, but if you want to make it then that's up to you. But then it absolutely is disingenuous not to accept that by your own argument Amartey also did nothing in the 12 matches he didn't play in and the 2 matches he barely featured off the bench too.

To be fair though, I have been utter bobbins this season - not featured at all. 

[risofox]

Look at the scorers in Hayes & Yeading's 2-1 victory over Hendon on Saturday. 

 

 

Edited 10 January 2022 by risofox

[HybridFox]

Big Dan coming back to kick ass 

[The whole world smiles]

I know big dan is a figure of fun in the eyes of some of our (more stupid) fans. 

 

But he has been our best, most consistent center back this season and getting him back for as many as four games that he would have missed had Ghana progressed is a major boost for the injury hit squad. 

 

In fact because of cancelled games he's only going to miss one league game. 

[Supergray22]

I think the number of fans who see him that way has greatly reduced particularly with his performances of late. His performances before his bad injury had already endeared him to many but like you say he has been in another level this year. A big boost to have him back. Hopefully for Brighton. 

[MarriedaLeicesterGirl]

9 hours ago, The whole world smiles said:

 

In fact because of cancelled games he's only going to miss one league game. 

Another Rodgers masterclass!

[AKCJ]

Does this mean he's back for Brighton?

[Ric Flair]

9 hours ago, Supergray22 said:

I think the number of fans who see him that way has greatly reduced particularly with his performances of late. His performances before his bad injury had already endeared him to many but like you say he has been in another level this year. A big boost to have him back. Hopefully for Brighton. 

He was a pretty limited footballer as a right back and if he was still playing there then he'd not have the same appreciation or importance in the squad as he now does at centre half. It always baffled me why our various managers in the PL saw him as a full back or midfielder but from the off his national team played him as a centre half every time he played.

 

As a no nonsense CB, he's a valuable squad player and exactly the sort of player a proper squad needs. As anything else he's not good enough at the level we are at but thankfully we've acknowledged where he's best and that's where we play him unless really in desperate measures.

[MarriedaLeicesterGirl]

3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

He was a pretty limited footballer as a right back and if he was still playing there then he'd not have the same appreciation or importance in the squad as he now does at centre half. It always baffled me why our various managers in the PL saw him as a full back or midfielder but from the off his national team played him as a centre half every time he played.

 

As a no nonsense CB, he's a valuable squad player and exactly the sort of player a proper squad needs. As anything else he's not good enough at the level we are at but thankfully we've acknowledged where he's best and that's where we play him unless really in desperate measures.

Well, I think managers saw him as a CM because that is what he played at Djurgårdens and Copenhagen (when we were thrilled with videos of his commanding runs etc, etc.) He was part of our rotating "Kante replacements" before Ndidi. He was played at full back because of various squad issues.

 

During that era, we seemed to be loaded at the CB position in any event (Heck, we signed Luis Hernández -- may he forever live in our memory -- as a CB, and think he never played in that position. Just a long throw specialist right back for our Champions League group games.)

 

The Ghana team, for all intent and purposes, was the outlier that was seemingly playing him out of position. Little did we know!

[SpacedX]

17 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

He was a pretty limited footballer as a right back and if he was still playing there then he'd not have the same appreciation or importance in the squad as he now does at centre half. It always baffled me why our various managers in the PL saw him as a full back or midfielder but from the off his national team played him as a centre half every time he played.

 

As a no nonsense CB, he's a valuable squad player and exactly the sort of player a proper squad needs. As anything else he's not good enough at the level we are at but thankfully we've acknowledged where he's best and that's where we play him unless really in desperate measures.

In the circumstances I thought he performed admirably at RB against Liverpool at home last season. 

[lcfc sheff]

It’s mad how much pace he used to have

[Ric Flair]

22 minutes ago, Line-X said:

In the circumstances I thought he performed admirably at RB against Liverpool at home last season. 

Not going forward though, he's so workmanlike. He can defend, he can keep it simple passing wise most of the time but as a team we require our full backs to be as good at getting forward as they are at defending and especially on the right where our winger isn't as strong as on the left.

 

At centre half though, he holds his own in that position. Yes he could be better on the ball but I don't think that's essential as being able to get forward as a full back. As long as one of the CB's or the full back next to you is excellent on the ball then the link up play to get out from the back shouldn't be hindered. He can defends, he is quick and he's got a bit of aggression and mindset that we lack collectively and he's as good a 4th choice CB when everyone's fit, possibly even 3rd choice now given the long term issues with Evans and Soyuncu's regression.

 

He's a real warrior and so pleased to see him put those 2 years of injury hell behind him.

[Lesta2014]

50 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Not going forward though, he's so workmanlike. He can defend, he can keep it simple passing wise most of the time but as a team we require our full backs to be as good at getting forward as they are at defending and especially on the right where our winger isn't as strong as on the left.

 

At centre half though, he holds his own in that position. Yes he could be better on the ball but I don't think that's essential as being able to get forward as a full back. As long as one of the CB's or the full back next to you is excellent on the ball then the link up play to get out from the back shouldn't be hindered. He can defends, he is quick and he's got a bit of aggression and mindset that we lack collectively and he's as good a 4th choice CB when everyone's fit, possibly even 3rd choice now given the long term issues with Evans and Soyuncu's regression.

 

He's a real warrior and so pleased to see him put those 2 years of injury hell behind him.

Huth and Morgan made a career out of similar defend first and pass the ball to full back or a Cm like them pair did to drinkwater in title winning season. 

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, Lesta2014 said:

Huth and Morgan made a career out of similar defend first and pass the ball to full back or a Cm like them pair did to drinkwater in title winning season. 

It can be done, just has to have the system fine tuned. We spend a lot of unnecessary time passing the ball at the back and yes I get the principles of it but if done badly its chaos. Amartey never gets tasked with doing so like Soyuncu does, who causes us so many problems. The message to Big Dan is, get it gone like a hot potato ASAP.

[jerry]

1 hour ago, Lesta2014 said:

Huth and Morgan made a career out of similar defend first and pass the ball to full back or a Cm like them pair did to drinkwater in title winning season. 

Huth and Morgan had real physical presence and also masked Caspers inadequacies in crosses and high balls. Soyuncu apart who in my opinion is an accident waiting to happen we don't have that physicality in that position, not with Amartey or even Evans ( when fit ).

[Lesta2014]

10 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

It can be done, just has to have the system fine tuned. We spend a lot of unnecessary time passing the ball at the back and yes I get the principles of it but if done badly its chaos. Amartey never gets tasked with doing so like Soyuncu does, who causes us so many problems. The message to Big Dan is, get it gone like a hot potato ASAP.

The pace we move the ball along the back 4 means it’s so easy for teams to get into defensive shape. We are much better moving it quickly and playing through the lines quicker. So much harder to defend when the balls moved quicker! 

[turtmcfly]

7 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Not going forward though, he's so workmanlike. He can defend, he can keep it simple passing wise most of the time but as a team we require our full backs to be as good at getting forward as they are at defending and especially on the right where our winger isn't as strong as on the left.

 

At centre half though, he holds his own in that position. Yes he could be better on the ball but I don't think that's essential as being able to get forward as a full back. As long as one of the CB's or the full back next to you is excellent on the ball then the link up play to get out from the back shouldn't be hindered. He can defends, he is quick and he's got a bit of aggression and mindset that we lack collectively and he's as good a 4th choice CB when everyone's fit, possibly even 3rd choice now given the long term issues with Evans and Soyuncu's regression.

 

He's a real warrior and so pleased to see him put those 2 years of injury hell behind him.

 

If this is saying what I think it is, and with specific regard to 'one of the CBs' as highlighted, I'm going to argue (again) that Dan's passing through to the midfield this season has been the equal (sod that, it's been better) than his fellow CBs*. So sure, pass it to the nearest full back, but at the current point I'm not sure which one of our CBs he should defer to when it comes to getting it out from the back.

 

 

* admittedly a particularly low bar (frequency and quality wise) to hurdle this season

 

[moore_94]

 

[baldeagle]

Another solid game him and Justin our best defenders today by far 

[CosbehFox]

Just defends. And that’s exactly what our defence needs to do. Does all the simple stuff right 

[Lesterlad]

2 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Just defends. And that’s exactly what our defence needs to do. Does all the simple stuff right 

Wish Soyunchu would follow his lead and pump ball up bloody pitch,n instead of having assists in their goals

[Supergray22]

Another solid game today for big Dan. Not sure we would have held on at the end without him today. James Justin made a big difference too. He seems to have a decent level of match fitness already and that will only increase over the next few games. Brighton are a decent team. Wish we had been a bit more positive for a bit longer though as we came out great after the break and looked dominant first half. 

[lcfc sheff]

We need to be giving him a new contract, he’s more than useful. Solid today I thought