Amartey

[Ric Flair]

5 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

You say he's constantly the worst player on the pitch.

Then you say but" not today "

And you also say "other times last season not so"

 

Which is it Ric? Make your mind up? Your contradicting yourself.

 

I would say there were at least 4 or 5 last season who were just as bad. 

 

Like I said there has to be a scapegoat and for now it's Dan.

If Jamie Vardy consistently scores goals does that mean he scores every game? Consistent means more often than not or more than those around him in my mind and that's where I am with Amartey. I think he is consistently our worst performer in games, more often than not but you don't want me to say not every game so I'll lie then and say he's the worst player EVERY game so you can then argue he isn't. 

 

Fill your boots.

[Tommy Fresh]

Just now, Ric Flair said:

If Jamie Vardy consistently scores goals does that mean he scores every game? Consistent means more often than not or more than those around him in my mind and that's where I am with Amartey. I think he is consistently our worst performer in games, more often than not but you don't want me to say not every game so I'll lie then and say he's the worst player EVERY game so you can then argue he isn't. 

 

Fill your boots.

He's in a position where mistakes are noticed and ultimately will lead to chances for the opponent. He will have some bright moments and doesn't get any credit but any kind of negative moment and lots can't wait to jump on it.

[Fightforever]

1 hour ago, walkerleeds said:

But he doesn't any more than the other defenders do.

 

Less high profile player= easy scapegoat for people like you.

Amartey bottom 20th percentile at tackling bottom 8th at interceptions and bottom 16th percentile in the air. While being average at clearances and above average at blocking shots.

 

Compare him to Evans who is average at everything apart from pressures or Fofana who is above average at everything apart from blocks.

 

Its clear as day that Amartey is not good enough for this level. When it comes to actually being able to defend. He is above average on the ball but off the ball he is terrible.

 

Edited 13 August 2022 by Fightforever
Adding Soyuncu

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, Fightforever said:

 

Amartey bottom 20th percentile at tackling bottom 8th at interceptions and bottom 16th percentile in the air. While being average at clearances and above average at blocking shots.

 

Compare him to Evans who is average at everything apart from pressures or Fofana who is above average at everything apart from blocks.

 

Its clear as day that Amartey is not good enough for this level.

Lob Soyuncu in as well please

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

Nobody has *ever* said Amartey is fantastic, just that he's fine as a FOURTH CHOICE CENTRE HALF.  Which he is! FOURTH CHOICE! 

 

[Fightforever]

3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Lob Soyuncu in as well please

Consider it done. A great defender when he can keep his head.

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

Nobody has *ever* said Amartey is fantastic, just that he's fine as a FOURTH CHOICE CENTRE HALF.  Which he is! FOURTH CHOICE! 

 

But being picked as 3rd choice instead in a back 3 on the left which is Soyuncu's position. 

[Tommy Fresh]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

But being picked as 3rd choice instead in a back 3 on the left which is Soyuncu's position. 

Which only Rodgers would do

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

But being picked as 3rd choice instead in a back 3 on the left which is Soyuncu's position. 

 

And that's his fault because...

[Ric Flair]

Just now, Tommy Fresh said:

Which only Rodgers would do

If Amartey HAS to play then get him RCB. Rodgers is doing him dirty.

[Fightforever]

5 minutes ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

Nobody has *ever* said Amartey is fantastic, just that he's fine as a FOURTH CHOICE CENTRE HALF.  Which he is! FOURTH CHOICE! 

 

Which begs the question why don't we play our 3rd Choice center back and leave our 4th choice on the bench where he belongs. The issue is Rodgers and you don't share the same opinion on where Amartey is in the pecking order.

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

 

And that's his fault because...

Didn't say it was, you said he's a 4th choice centre half but he's now moved up to 3rd choice so was just a friendly reminder. I saw my neighbour putting out the wrong bin the other day and I've felt bad ever since, so I'm speaking up.

[Tommy Fresh]

2 minutes ago, Fightforever said:

Which begs the question why don't we play our 3rd Choice center back and leave our 4th choice on the bench where he belongs. The issue is Rodgers and you don't share the same opinion on where Amartey is in the pecking order.

No one shares the same opinion as Rodgers 

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

Didn't say it was, you said he's a 4th choice centre half but he's now moved up to 3rd choice so was just a friendly reminder. I saw my neighbour putting out the wrong bin the other day and I've felt bad ever since, so I'm speaking up.

 

He's moved up to third choice through no fault of his own though. I think he's a bit shit but I don't get the constant going at him.

[lcfc_forever]

Fofana, Evans and Soy looked class together vs Man Utd in the FA Cup. 
 

In fact, they looked good when they played as a 3 atb from what I recall until Evans’ injury. 

[Lambert09]

1 hour ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Suggest you watch the build up to the first again, you make a point Amartey isn't aware of his surroundings (for the second), surely that also applies to Fofana for the third getting in the way of Ward and his limp attempt at claiming a ball. After Praet messing about before the fourth Fofana comes flying out to intercept, gets nowhere near meaning he's scrambling to stop Martinelli getting a shot off.

 

In general I'd also hope that our two first choice centre backs make less mistakes than Amartey. 

you could double your point on this because the praet situation has only happened because johnnys not put enough on the pass to begin with 

[Ric Flair]

5 minutes ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

 

He's moved up to third choice through no fault of his own though. I think he's a bit shit but I don't get the constant going at him.

Microwaved bacon is absolutely horrid and that's through no fault of its own. Don't hate the game, hate the player that's what I say. 

[lcfc043]

3 minutes ago, lcfc_forever said:

Fofana, Evans and Soy looked class together vs Man Utd in the FA Cup. 
 

In fact, they looked good when they played as a 3 atb from what I recall until Evans’ injury. 

But Brendan is too proud to admit he’s wrong. So we are left with this rubbish defence until a injury. 

[It'sblueupnorth]

4 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:But being picked as 3rd choice instead in a back 3 on the left which is Soyuncu's position. 

Who’s fault is that though? It is clear to everybody that soyuncu is a better player than Amartey, other than small man big brain who has got a weird vendetta against him. There’s no way Amartey should be starting on the left when Soyuncu is fit. It’s just a bit ridiculous that every time he has a bad game there’s a comment from the usual posters on here against a player I think everyone realises should be 4th choice. Amartey is usually solid 5/10 player, scored some big goals for us and does a job when called upon, but as with most reserve players, has dropped some absolute clangers. But I struggle to see how and why we would try to upgrade a reserve team centre half who’s happy to play that role and seems to be a good character, when we have far bigger fish to fry just on the strange insistence of our manager who is happy to leave us weaker and unbalanced at the back for no justified reason

[Fightforever]

5 minutes ago, It'sblueupnorth said:

Who’s fault is that though? It is clear to everybody that soyuncu is a better player than Amartey, other than small man big brain who has got a weird vendetta against him. There’s no way Amartey should be starting on the left when Soyuncu is fit. It’s just a bit ridiculous that every time he has a bad game there’s a comment from the usual posters on here against a player I think everyone realises should be 4th choice. Amartey is usually solid 5/10 player, scored some big goals for us and does a job when called upon, but as with most reserve players, has dropped some absolute clangers. But I struggle to see how and why we would try to upgrade a reserve team centre half who’s happy to play that role and seems to be a good character, when we have far bigger fish to fry just on the strange insistence of our manager who is happy to leave us weaker and unbalanced at the back for no justified reason

I reckon Amartey isn't even a 5 out of 10 player for us. He isn't good enough off the ball. I would rather give Ben Nelson a go. Also if we want to play 3 at the back more often we will need much better than Amartey for a 4th choice.

Edited 13 August 2022 by Fightforever

[It'sblueupnorth]

1 minute ago, Fightforever said:

I reckon Amartey isn't even a 5 out of 10 player for us. He isn't good enough off the ball. I would rather give Ben Nelson a go.

I would rather promote youth as well but Nelson didn’t get a sniff all pre season. But again, why would we take the chance on an 18 year old who’s only attracted interest from Rochdale and hasn’t played senior football when all our centre halves are fit? It just makes no sense to not be playing Soyuncu

[lcfc043]

Injury or Rodge does not change. He would rather lose than admit he was wrong. 

[Fightforever]

3 minutes ago, It'sblueupnorth said:

I would rather promote youth as well but Nelson didn’t get a sniff all pre season. But again, why would we take the chance on an 18 year old who’s only attracted interest from Rochdale and hasn’t played senior football when all our centre halves are fit? It just makes no sense to not be playing Soyuncu

Soyuncu is the obvious choice for 3rd choice but I made the assumption that Amartey was a 4th choice center back. 

[inckley fox]

41 minutes ago, Fightforever said:

 

Amartey bottom 20th percentile at tackling bottom 8th at interceptions and bottom 16th percentile in the air. While being average at clearances and above average at blocking shots.

 

Compare him to Evans who is average at everything apart from pressures or Fofana who is above average at everything apart from blocks.

 

Its clear as day that Amartey is not good enough for this level.

What time period is this based on (sorry if I'm being daft and missing something)? I ask because I'd have thought Amartey would feature more often than not when we have reduced options because of injuries etc., which has also coincided with poor form. It might not be a fair comparison.

No, he's not good enough to be first choice in a PL side that wants to finish top six. But as third or fourth choice in a predominantly four man defence he's not such an awful option. You can always twist stats to underline a point. You could also look at those stats and say he's the best and most progressive passer of the ball and creator of chances, as well as being way better than Fofana at blocking, and way better than Evans at clearing danger.

 

Our record in all the league games he's started for us is 1.26 ppg (48 points per season), roughly in line with our finishes in four of the past seven seasons. Bear in mind that he rarely featured in the three 'better' seasons... which you could read as meaning we're better when he's out of the picture, or rather that when we're a mid-table side he comes in and does a job and doesn't tend to sway the outcomes.

 

If you look specifically at last season, we got 1.43 ppg with him the side and 1.27 ppg without him. That doesn't mean to say that Col's wrong, and he didn't cost us points when he played (and I grant you that last season's defence in general wasn't up to it), but for a back-up player there isn't a lot of evidence that we're seriously worse off with him in the side.

 

And I really didn't think he needed singling out from today's game. He was crap, yes, but he was once again in an unaccustomed role, and a defence which didn't look comfortable from left to right. Obviously all of those defenders are superior to Amartey, and personally I'd have picked a side without him in it, but I just didn't feel he was the story of the day. Last week, on the other hand...!

[Fightforever]

22 minutes ago, inckley fox said:

What time period is this based on (sorry if I'm being daft and missing something)? I ask because I'd have thought Amartey would feature more often than not when we have reduced options because of injuries etc., which has also coincided with poor form. It might not be a fair comparison.

No, he's not good enough to be first choice in a PL side that wants to finish top six. But as third or fourth choice in a predominantly four man defence he's not such an awful option. You can always twist stats to underline a point. You could also look at those stats and say he's the best and most progressive passer of the ball and creator of chances, as well as being way better than Fofana at blocking, and way better than Evans at clearing danger.

 

Our record in all the league games he's started for us is 1.26 ppg (48 points per season), roughly in line with our finishes in four of the past seven seasons. Bear in mind that he rarely featured in the three 'better' seasons... which you could read as meaning we're better when he's out of the picture, or rather that when we're a mid-table side he comes in and does a job and doesn't tend to sway the outcomes.

 

If you look specifically at last season, we got 1.43 ppg with him the side and 1.27 ppg without him. That doesn't mean to say that Col's wrong, and he didn't cost us points when he played (and I grant you that last season's defence in general wasn't up to it), but for a back-up player there isn't a lot of evidence that we're seriously worse off with him in the side.

 

And I really didn't think he needed singling out from today's game. He was crap, yes, but he was once again in an unaccustomed role, and a defence which didn't look comfortable from left to right. Obviously all of those defenders are superior to Amartey, and personally I'd have picked a side without him in it, but I just didn't feel he was the story of the day. Last week, on the other hand...!

The issue is blocking and clearing is not as useful in a team that wants to be high up the pitch and dominate possesion. Amartey in my mind would be good for a team like Burnley where he gets to camp in his own half clearing and blocking to his hearts content and gets to carry the ball up the pitch on a counter attack.

 

That's why he was decent today since we had our backs to the wall so all he really needed to do was mostly block shots and clear the ball. We saw Fofana who is terrible at blocks do worse today.

 

If a player is the 8th percentile for interceptions and 16th percentile for areial duels when we are usually defending halfway up the pitch that's going to cause some terrible situations when we have one of our 2 central defenders who can't jump to reach the ball and we have a huge gap in our game by having a central defender that is unable to intercept loose balls from opposition clearances or counter attacks.

 

The stats are for the last year and stuff such as tackles won and interceptions don't really rely on other team mates as much as say how many goals we conceded. Also Soyuncu in the same period has much better stats. I did edit the post to include Soyuncu's stats too.

Edited 13 August 2022 by Fightforever