Youri Tielemans

[sacreblueits442]

50 minutes ago, gerblod said:

This 'over-playing' YT nonsense implies that Rodgers and Co. can't monitor the physical/mental stress levels of the squad and adjust the team for that eventuality. Which further implies that City employs a less than fully competent coaching staff.

I've not seen this flawed maxim applied to any other player - why not Luke Thomas, for example? If anyone should be exhausted it should be him.

As has been suggested in this thread, YT may be being played too far back - his weak tackling and regular error-strewn games suggest he'd be at least safer up front. But then there would be an issue with Maddison and a bigger hole than Choudhury could fill at the back. 

The Mercury (aka the Dumb Terminal) has been bigging-up Tieleman's sound bite about Leicester being a great club to play/work for. Perhaps he himself realises that he's not quite the catch the national press would have their readers believe he is. 

 

 

...the Mercury article are a rehash of what was posted a year ago!!!

 There is no change in what he has previously said, it is unfair to beat him over the head with this as him now having second thoughts about staying here.

[Sampson]

22 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

Youri has always been a victim of the attention span of this forum. He scores or produces a brilliant pass then he is a genius. He has a non descript  match , then he is overrated. He is in fact a very good player and by and large has done a very good job for us. Is he as good as KDB ? Of course he isn't. Very few are. He will leave a large  hole and we will need to spend big to fill it.

I disagree. Tielemans has already been a streaky player for us and opinion is usually based on whether he is one of his long spells of good form or long spells of poor form.

 

I don’t think we’re far apart. No one here has said he hasn’t been a very good player for us, but he obviously is being overrated when people call him world class or make out he’s been fantastic for 3 years straight and has been brilliant for every season he’s been here up until the past couple of months since his injury.

[fuchsntf]

3 hours ago, gerblod said:

This 'over-playing' YT nonsense implies that Rodgers and Co. can't monitor the physical/mental stress levels of the squad and adjust the team for that eventuality. Which further implies that City employs a less than fully competent coaching staff.

I've not seen this flawed maxim applied to any other player - why not Luke Thomas, for example? If anyone should be exhausted it should be him.

As has been suggested in this thread, YT may be being played too far back - his weak tackling and regular error-strewn games suggest he'd be at least safer up front. But then there would be an issue with Maddison and a bigger hole than Choudhury could fill at the back. 

The Mercury (aka the Dumb Terminal) has been bigging-up Tieleman's sound bite about Leicester being a great club to play/work for. Perhaps he himself realises that he's not quite the catch the national press would have their readers believe he is. 

 

 

He's that classic case of the poor & modern punditry..

Overrated by some,underrated by others..

I want him to stay because he has many class things in the locker,especially when we are playing well,he can turn that key..!! When we are bogged down spread over many games,he doesn't seem a player who can hold & turn the game..but to be fair when 90% of your teammates are struggling & regularly coming ,& going out of the team..the creativeness gets lost, & your own game suffers..

Give our team 3-4 special moments in any single game,( FA.cup win) he & Maddison have the eye & pass to create

something from nothing, or just the skill to open up or turn the game...

But regular outages of your own quality teammates,there is no rapport or rythm you can build on,so your own form and mental strength & skill set  suffers.

 

He and his teammates plus manager have struggled because of the extraordinary long periods of player turnovers due to injuries,especially when it's the BBone of your higher quality players..& not just 2-3, but the whole Bline..

plus then a DM & your best only proven striker.

I argue the fact ,the supporters who deny this fact are blind to what it takes,to play at that higher level of the PL..& don't understand what it needs to carry a teams ethos,tact & rythm through a campaign...Like Southampton & Leicester, who have suffered with 6-8 outages, or returnees only playing 3-4 games before again taking an hit..Let it also be said over 2 seasons..Ndidi who Tielemans & Maddison need to strutt their own stuff,has been in these last 2 season playing probably an high percentage of games but mostly taking awhile to slip into form or still carry "afters" when returning.then after 6 games is out again..

For all these problems instead of encouraging or wanting to understand

FT- forum would prefer to go on cynical over critical campaigns instead of encouraging & supporting over bad times..Our below average form, is taking along time, but with heavy mitigating consequential circumstances..

It's bloody obvious we ain't got that quality fall back in our squad compared to the likes of L'pool,

Chelsea, Man city, even Manutd or Spurs.., and they haven't had so many or amount of hits,over such longer periods.

 

The Leicester of old nor Southampton just wouldn't have held that middle of the table positions,

relegation would of been the obvious consequence..

I won't deny Rodgers has made mistakes or failed or too slow to recognise some much needed immediate tactical changes...but unlike

some irratable posters who make up lies & don't follow the weekly interviews,

Rodgers has criticised himself & said several times he's made mistakes & bad ones, at the same time

protected his players from the outside critic. He has also more of late but also through his tenure, criticised the team for being too slow on moving the ball ,lack of concentration & not taking game-moment responsibilities..

One adds all this up & across all situations with lack of consistent player availability,

it's no wonder that ever presents like Tielemans struggle to deliver that expected consistent form,

For all players individually & as groups,there is no consistent regularity where they can naturally & usually bounce off & build around each other..

This is the A + O of any team sport.

 

Edited 10 March 2022 by fuchsntf

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, An Sionnach said:

Youri has always been a victim of the attention span of this forum. He scores or produces a brilliant pass then he is a genius. He has a non descript  match , then he is overrated. He is in fact a very good player and by and large has done a very good job for us. Is he as good as KDB ? Of course he isn't. Very few are. He will leave a large  hole and we will need to spend big to fill it.

Between Some of the twaddle & noise around any star player,  but now concentrated on Tielemans there is a chink, where when of late he has actually spoken and not from the mouth of A.N.Other or media noise out of context clickbait..

where through this smog ,

He actually wants & will be staying.

 

Like many other topics,fans presume far too much on the created obvious because the inevitable cloud build up on the need of having a say, then let it run on the fuel of assumption creating pages of irrelevant unnecessary opinions..

 

So through that small beacon of light,

there might just be a different outcome

to what is being projected..

 

 

Edited 10 March 2022 by fuchsntf

[turtmcfly]

2 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

Youri has always been a victim of the attention span of this forum. He scores or produces a brilliant pass then he is a genius. He has a non descript  match , then he is overrated. He is in fact a very good player and by and large has done a very good job for us. Is he as good as KDB ? Of course he isn't. Very few are. He will leave a large  hole and we will need to spend big to fill it.

 

 

This makes it sound like he's a victim of common sense

 

 

[Wolfox]

7 hours ago, Vindaloo FOX said:

Let's be real he was to good for us when he joined and he is certainly to good for us now.

 

Just happy we got to see him play for us.

 

Best of luck to him.

I dunno…. We’re not ‘little old Leicester’ anymore 

 

For sure he’s one of our most exceptional players we’ve attracted in our history, but, I’m not sure that he’s too good for us in our modern context…

[honeybradger]

8 hours ago, Sampson said:

Ayoze Perez helped us finish 5th twice and won us the FA Cup with a dodgy handball too though.

 

It just gets a bit frustrating when people try and group together both the last two seasons with Tielemans when his levels of performances were so far apart. There’s a clear attempt to try and create a false equivalence for both seasons and make out Tielemans was a brilliant or even “world class” for like 3 straight years or something and is now only crap because he’s injured.

 

I haven’t seen anyone say he’s crap or been bitter. Just that people tend to overrate his entire time here when he’s really only ever had 1 great season and scored 1 of the most important goals in the clubs history. He was really mediocre in 2019-20 and our 5th place finish was as much in spite of him than it was because of him. Someone like Perez did contribute more that season even.

 

He’s been very good for us, but I don’t think he deserves to go down as one of the clubs all-time greats or anything like some seem to.

Personally feel like there is a lot of revisionism going on around Tielemans, you're allowed to have your own opinion but 'Perez did more for us in 19/20' seems like a strong overexagerration considering he didn't have a single goal or assist up to that Southampton game. Tielemans was sloppy at times in 19/20, mostly because he was looked like he was struggling with the Christmas fixture pileup but we definitely did not succeed in spite of him, he was still our best player at controlling matches and dictating the tempo. I don't think he's been bad this season either honestly, he was probably only second to vardy at the start of the season.

[Supergray22]

Youri has played so many games over the last two years more because simply put he is the lynchpin. He is always looking to offer himself when we are in possession and helps us progress up the pitch with his quick triangles. His awareness is second to none and this enables him to play those exquisite killer through balls for Vardy and the like. I’d like to see him get more goals as we know he can score some screamers. One we will Remember for the rest of our lives. His physicality has improved markedly over the last two years. He often wins headers and outmuscles players that he couldn’t when he came here. His endurance has also increased. His main weakness is pace. He isn’t the quickest but compensates for this through his speed of thought. His technical ability enables him to beat a player that belies his pace. 
I really hope he stays. I hope we have done everything possible to keep him but if he goes then he does so leaving fond memories. 

[Sampson]

2 hours ago, honeybradger said:

Personally feel like there is a lot of revisionism going on around Tielemans, you're allowed to have your own opinion but 'Perez did more for us in 19/20' seems like a strong overexagerration considering he didn't have a single goal or assist up to that Southampton game. Tielemans was sloppy at times in 19/20, mostly because he was looked like he was struggling with the Christmas fixture pileup but we definitely did not succeed in spite of him, he was still our best player at controlling matches and dictating the tempo. I don't think he's been bad this season either honestly, he was probably only second to vardy at the start of the season.

How can you say it's revisionism to say Tielemans was meidocre in 19/20 when we get guff on here all the time saying he was "world class" for 2 1/2 seasons before this season?

It's not revisionism, look go back and read the posts about him at the end of 19/20 then look at the comments about his season towards the end of the season in this thread. And Maddison was way ahead of Tielemans for creating chances and key passes that season. I'm not convinced he was our best player at dictating the tempo (and he was in the side to do that job anyway, so it's a meaningless point as who are you comparing him against? It's like saying Schmeichel was the best at saving shots and aerial handling in his worst season are - I mean that's his sole job in the team, of course he is). Most of the comments are about his lack of mobility and poor passing.

 

Also blaming the Christmas pile up in a season which we had an extended covid break is the exact nonsense we keep talking about about how people afford Tielemans every excuse in the book that no other player gets and some people just can't say he's in poor form when he's in poor form.

And as for him being the 2nd best player behind Vardy in the early games. Again, we will have to STRONGLY disagree on that. That was Iheanacho no question. While the match ratings here aren't everything they show you're clearly way out of step with the rest of the board - his average rating in his first 10 games this season was 5.76 - that's below what he's even at now. In fact it was 10 straight games between the Wolves 1-0 game in the opening league match and the 4-2 win vs Man Utd in mid-October until he even averaged above a 6.0 in a match. So you must have been watching a completely different player to everyone else during that 10 game stretch where apparently he was our 2nd best player. And people still go on about him only being bad this season since his injury...

We could lose 6-0 in 5 games in a row and Tielemans could score 30 own goals and people would still be saying "Tielemans has just played too many games" or "it's the system, Rodgers is playing him too deep/too far wide". It's just crazy. He's been a very good player for us no doubt, but he's not Vardy/Kante/Mahrez level good and I'd be very surprised if he goes on to have the same career that they have. 

Edited 10 March 2022 by Sampson

[Ric Flair]

After all the shit he's had recently I thought I'd watch him over everything else where possible tonight to see what's happening and the way he orders the rest of the players around him is so important. He didn't do anything especially creative tonight but once we turned that 1st 20 mins in our favour then he got on the ball and kept plenty ticking over.

 

It was a lot lot better from him, he looked sharp and he ended the game strong as opposed to looking on his arse.

 

 

[majaco]

So Tielemans is off form?  So Tielemans wouldn't make our best 11 currently?  

 

Whatever.

 

He is a class player.  He will come good again.

 

 

(Like Barnes, Maddison, Albrighton...)

 

 

[Sampson]

24 minutes ago, majaco said:

So Tielemans is off form?  So Tielemans wouldn't make our best 11 currently?  

 

He is a class player.  He will come good again.

 

 

Those things aren't mutually exclusive. You can quite easily agree with both statements.

[Bert]

31 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

After all the shit he's had recently I thought I'd watch him over everything else where possible tonight to see what's happening and the way he orders the rest of the players around him is so important. He didn't do anything especially creative tonight but once we turned that 1st 20 mins in our favour then he got on the ball and kept plenty ticking over.

 

It was a lot lot better from him, he looked sharp and he ended the game strong as opposed to looking on his arse.

 

 

He was always there tonight as the option when we were in a tight spot.  

[CosbehFox]

On 09/03/2022 at 11:50, Cardiff_Fox said:

Disagree personally he was superb v West Ham and gave Rice a bit of lesson in the second half 

 

This might sound odd but he suffers in that role when he doesn't have a proper overlapping, aggressive full back - when that's available, his passing options open up inside, channel and wing. 

 

It makes opposition plays more narrower - Youri gets a little bit more space as a result, he can switch across to Barnes and left-back as well. His opposite central midfielder doesn't really wanna move too much away from the middle of the pitch as it gives a pocket for Maddison. I

 

Justin plays…Youri bosses; particularly when he starts sitting at right back and knocking about it 

[gerblod]

21 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...the Mercury article are a rehash of what was posted a year ago!!!

 There is no change in what he has previously said, it is unfair to beat him over the head with this as him now having second thoughts about staying here.

My bad! I'm well aware that 'Leicestershire Live' is a sensationalist clickbait website, but I should remember what that means in terms of the reliability of its content/product.

I think his reluctance to publicly express what he intends to do causes a number of posters on here to become frustrated with him - not least because this prevarication has been reflected in his pitch persona. He's there but somehow not involved enough to become essential - compare his and Maddison's onfield influence. We wait for the magic to emerge from the , admittedly, above average. When it does it renews ones faith in him, but it happens so rarely. 

Looking at Dennis Praet's stats at Torino, I wonder whether loaning him out was sensible. It's fortuitous that KDH has come good. 

[gerblod]

20 hours ago, fuchsntf said:

He's that classic case of the poor & modern punditry..

Overrated by some,underrated by others..

I want him to stay because he has many class things in the locker,especially when we are playing well,he can turn that key..!! When we are bogged down spread over many games,he doesn't seem a player who can hold & turn the game..but to be fair when 90% of your teammates are struggling & regularly coming ,& going out of the team..the creativeness gets lost, & your own game suffers..

Give our team 3-4 special moments in any single game,( FA.cup win) he & Maddison have the eye & pass to create

something from nothing, or just the skill to open up or turn the game...

But regular outages of your own quality teammates,there is no rapport or rythm you can build on,so your own form and mental strength & skill set  suffers.

 

He and his teammates plus manager have struggled because of the extraordinary long periods of player turnovers due to injuries,especially when it's the BBone of your higher quality players..& not just 2-3, but the whole Bline..

plus then a DM & your best only proven striker.

I argue the fact ,the supporters who deny this fact are blind to what it takes,to play at that higher level of the PL..& don't understand what it needs to carry a teams ethos,tact & rythm through a campaign...Like Southampton & Leicester, who have suffered with 6-8 outages, or returnees only playing 3-4 games before again taking an hit..Let it also be said over 2 seasons..Ndidi who Tielemans & Maddison need to strutt their own stuff,has been in these last 2 season playing probably an high percentage of games but mostly taking awhile to slip into form or still carry "afters" when returning.then after 6 games is out again..

For all these problems instead of encouraging or wanting to understand

FT- forum would prefer to go on cynical over critical campaigns instead of encouraging & supporting over bad times..Our below average form, is taking along time, but with heavy mitigating consequential circumstances..

It's bloody obvious we ain't got that quality fall back in our squad compared to the likes of L'pool,

Chelsea, Man city, even Manutd or Spurs.., and they haven't had so many or amount of hits,over such longer periods.

 

The Leicester of old nor Southampton just wouldn't have held that middle of the table positions,

relegation would of been the obvious consequence..

I won't deny Rodgers has made mistakes or failed or too slow to recognise some much needed immediate tactical changes...but unlike

some irratable posters who make up lies & don't follow the weekly interviews,

Rodgers has criticised himself & said several times he's made mistakes & bad ones, at the same time

protected his players from the outside critic. He has also more of late but also through his tenure, criticised the team for being too slow on moving the ball ,lack of concentration & not taking game-moment responsibilities..

One adds all this up & across all situations with lack of consistent player availability,

it's no wonder that ever presents like Tielemans struggle to deliver that expected consistent form,

For all players individually & as groups,there is no consistent regularity where they can naturally & usually bounce off & build around each other..

This is the A + O of any team sport.

 

A post worthy of inclusion in the LCFC post-season summation!

When City click they are awesome. The speed they generate on the counter, the movement and interaction, is up there with the best. 

The formation hasn't coalesced into a recognisable unit though. However, it's evident that a squad is forming from 'the Expendables'.

Amartey is growing into his position, Thomas has become, despite his youth, an automatic pick - despite Rodgers reluctance to recognise the fact. KDH is also an essential part of the midfield and that blistering run of Justin just showed his return to full fitness and form is very close. And Albrighton has demonstrated once again how City overlook him to their detriment.

So, we have a team emerging out of necessity, rather than choice. Yet it's a team holding together and becoming ever more resilient.

As you've reminded us, this is about how a team and a squad understand and support each other - in all areas. Singling out individuals for mistakes is churlish. 

Tielemans maybe needs excellence around him in order to excel. He gets that with Belgium. If he stays and if issues are resolved (Evans in particular), then there is a strong possibility that City will begin to move steadily back to the higher end of the table. This struggling season has actually allowed players who wouldn't normarily get a look in to develop expertise. 

Out of that struggle, strength has emerged.

 

[Chelmofox]

13 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

After all the shit he's had recently I thought I'd watch him over everything else where possible tonight to see what's happening and the way he orders the rest of the players around him is so important. He didn't do anything especially creative tonight but once we turned that 1st 20 mins in our favour then he got on the ball and kept plenty ticking over.

 

It was a lot lot better from him, he looked sharp and he ended the game strong as opposed to looking on his arse.

 

 

I'm glad you brought this up. I know it was a while back and the quality of opposition was very different, but I noticed the same at the Watford FA cup game, which i really enjoyed considering the makeshift team we put together. I spent big chunks of that game just watching him ordering / directing the players around him and you could tell the less experienced players were lapping it up. A lot of the time is was really subtle - just a quick point or circle motion with hands. If something didn't come off, just moved on to the next thing. This is the leadership opportunity he gives the team, and if he was to stay I would love to see this sort of mentorship helping these amazing academy we have coming through. 

[Clever Fox]

He was excellent last night without doing anything exceptional. Filling in defensive holes in the first 30 minutes.

Then making himself available for the little touch passes in tight areas as we began to assert ourselves. He covered an awful lot of ground last night.

He should be made Captainif he's going to stay.

[StanSP]

Youri's reaction 

 

 

[gerblod]

My problem with watching football is that I cannot watch a game dispassionately. I sometimes try to watch the opposition but that  essentially requires objective analysis, and I'm too emotionally involved with City to not concentrate on their play.

Watching an individual's performance in order to assess it detracts from the excitement of the game, so only the highs and lows really impact on my perception. The rest of my attention is on the ebb and flow of the game.

So I don't notice Tieleman's directing of play. It's below or above my perception threshold - too subtle I guess. 

My only comment would be about leading by example. To really earn the team mates respect then his own performance should be as near to faultless as he can make it. You can't chivvy colleagues about their performance when your own is hardly fault free. KDH is an excellent example of a combative player. If he learns the understanding of play which Tieleman's has, then we might get the outfield captain we desperately need.

[Sambiasso]

This will be Youris destination this summer I think.

[Mickyblueeyes]

8 minutes ago, Sambiasso said:

This will be Youris destination this summer I think.

I wouldnt mind that one bit. Out of the country to a genuine heavyweight. 

[Foxes96]

12 minutes ago, Sambiasso said:

This will be Youris destination this summer I think.

I believe so as well. Seems like a natural fit for both parties. Would wish him the best if he went there. Think he’d thrive even more in the slower paced Série A as well. 

[sacreblueits442]

2 minutes ago, Foxes96 said:

I believe so as well. Seems like a natural fit for both parties. Would wish him the best if he went there. Think he’d thrive even more in the slower paced Série A as well. 

....I wonder what the reaction would be, should he decide to stay!!!

[Royston.]

16 minutes ago, Sambiasso said:

This will be Youris destination this summer I think.

He would look sexy in a Juventus shirt...or a Newcastle shirt