Maddison

[Babylon]

Great to see him back in form, I hope the people abusing him take a look at themselves.

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

25 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Has had the most goal involvements as Vardy and Daka so far this season (sadly some of the plays you mention won't count as assists) but that's in no way downplaying his contributions. 

He's in great form at the moment. 

Hes having the spell he typically has in a season. The key bit for him now is to maintain this level.

 

Hes brilliant on his day, and it's a joy to see.

[jmono84]

He’s our best player and now he’s staying fit he’s proving it.

 

Joy to watch the lad and hope he can stay injury free 🤞🤞🤞

[Nod.E]

I'm not totally convinced it was a dive. It all happened so quickly and I think he was expecting to get hit by Lascelles. 

 

There is probably an element of making sure he goes down (as stupidly you have to, to get the penalty), and an element of trying to get out of the way so he doesn't get hurt. 

 

It was a stupid tackle from Lascelles and you can see that he knows that in his face when he commits it.

 

He has put his leg in front of Maddison without touching the ball. It gives Maddison in that split second the opportunity to either skip past or run into it. Either way, he'd be at a disadvantage to have to find a way around it, and since Lascelles didn't win the ball, surely that's a foul?

 

It looked stone wall in real time and soft in slow motion, but all things considered I think it's a pen. If it was against us I'd be annoyed at the ref, but more annoyed at the defender.

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Hes having the spell he typically has in a season. The key bit for him now is to maintain this level.

 

Hes brilliant on his day, and it's a joy to see.

Yeah, I hope Rodgers knows when to rotate him. He'll not want to miss games but we can't afford another hip injury. Badly need Lookman to get his finger out and Perez to stop being ill or injured.

[Kuredufox]

57 minutes ago, Phil Bowman said:

Do you mean his ability to play for a foul? I don’t remember us being too bothered when prime Vardy was brilliant at winning penalties…

As for the one yesterday, it was towards the softer end of the penalty spectrum, but you could see why the ref gave it, and on the replay as soon as you saw the defender’s leg was clearly moving towards Maddison after the ball had gone there was no way it was ever going to be overturned. Definitely a ‘playing for the penalty’ rather than a ‘dive.’

 

And even when players do dive, they’re playing professional sport, and their job is to win. They’re not taking part in a school sports day or the Olympics in the 1920s.

Lascelles never once complained to the Ref that it was a dive, he knew that he had left a leg in. Unfortunately when you do that as a defender you are liable to give a penalty away.

[Finnegan]

35 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

It was the sort of goal we scored in 2019/20, devastating play. As was the 3rd and 4th goal. Really hope we've stumbled across a new system that gets everyone playing just how they like to.

 

I've been hesitant to post something like this because coming out with a negative after a four nil win is a good way to get dog piled by people that don't want anyone taking the shine off. 

 

But I really hope the "system" isn't what takes any of the credit and that Rodgers has the good sense to restore a better shape once people are fit again. 

 

This weird, asymmetrical, half a diamond with four central midfielders crowbarred on the pitch is not a long term plan. It looked dire against Napoli and it shouldn't be overlooked that Newcastle are the most hilariously bad team in the league. 

 

It also shouldn't be overlooked that two of our three goals from open play came from the left where we had a "conventional" shape to the team with Thomas and Barnes offering their usual width. Meanwhile we made almost nothing down a very exposed right. 

 

I'm incredibly impressed by KDH over the last two games, he's looked magic and has elevated himself above Soumare in the pecking order. But he still should be dropped once we've got more options fit and ready for the right hand side. He's got a bright future here and may end up being Tielemans long term successor but for now he'll have to be patient. 

 

The key components yesterday were Tielemans and Maddison getting back to linking up in the middle of the park which was also key to the United win. Both were very, as you point out, 19/20 style performances. So let's get the 19/20 formation back to keep it going. 

[coolhandfox]

Having KDH in alongside YT and a DM give him so much freedom to pop up in different areas.

 

Didn't work as well against Napoli but that was more likely due to a YT having to blow off the cobwebs.

 

When we have played our most exciting football under BR it mainly been when JM and YT are both on song.

 

The attacking yesterday took me back to when we were on a roll in 19/20  

[coolhandfox]

15 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I've been hesitant to post something like this because coming out with a negative after a four nil win is a good way to get dog piled by people that don't want anyone taking the shine off. 

 

But I really hope the "system" isn't what takes any of the credit and that Rodgers has the good sense to restore a better shape once people are fit again. 

 

This weird, asymmetrical, half a diamond with four central midfielders crowbarred on the pitch is not a long term plan. It looked dire against Napoli and it shouldn't be overlooked that Newcastle are the most hilariously bad team in the league. 

 

It also shouldn't be overlooked that two of our three goals from open play came from the left where we had a "conventional" shape to the team with Thomas and Barnes offering their usual width. Meanwhile we made almost nothing down a very exposed right. 

 

I'm incredibly impressed by KDH over the last two games, he's looked magic and has elevated himself above Soumare in the pecking order. But he still should be dropped once we've got more options fit and ready for the right hand side. He's got a bright future here and may end up being Tielemans long term successor but for now he'll have to be patient. 

 

The key components yesterday were Tielemans and Maddison getting back to linking up in the middle of the park which was also key to the United win. Both were very, as you point out, 19/20 style performances. So let's get the 19/20 formation back to keep it going. 

 

It is similar to how we set up with Perez when we play some of our best football under Rodgers. Perez would be set up to play RM but would often play more infield as more of a 10 and let Riccardo overlap on the right

 

Football is about creating overloads whilst the goals came down the left. Maddison drifted to that side, causing the overload that unlocked the defence.

 

Edited 13 December 2021 by coolhandfox

[Finnegan]

15 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

 

It is similar to how we set up with Perez when we play some of our best football under Rodgers. Perez would be set up to play RM but would often play more infield as more of a 10 and let Riccardo overlap on the right

 

Football is about creating overloads whilst the goals came down the left. Maddison drifted to that side, causing the overload that unlocked the defence.

 

 

Perez and Barnes definitely held different levels of width. Sure. Perez cuts in a lot more narrow and our right back overlaps a lot more than our left back. 

 

But Maddison cut in so much in the last two games that he never really offers a wide outlet at all and, more than that, it leaves Castagne SO isolated that he's pretty much permanently pinned back for fear of being over exposed if he loses possession out there. 

 

It goes from one extreme to the other. 

 

Ideally we want Perez or Lookman to be that player who can do both, tuck in to the midfield to help create that overload but also move out to create width and help facilitate the overlap coming from RB. 

 

And most importantly, to actually play at RM in the defensive shape. 

 

Maddison is then free to actually play in the centre of the park where he should be without neglecting any defensive role he has in the team. 

[StriderHiryu]

 

Didn't realise we had signed prime Zinedine Zidane.

 

Outrageous flick!

[BenTheFox]

Man of the match performance yesterday. He has been outstanding recently and I think we are starting to see him mature as well. He has been inconsistent during his time here but he's an absolute joy to watch when he's playing like he is at the moment. 

[Dahnsouff]

3 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

Didn't realise we had signed prime Zinedine Zidane.

 

Outrageous flick!

So much right in that bit of play

• KDH again in space and wanting the ball
• Harvey's run
• Daka's space generating movement
• Maddisons cheeky flick
• Harvey pass to the player in a bettr position
• Daka's easy goal

[coolhandfox]

21 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Perez and Barnes definitely held different levels of width. Sure. Perez cuts in a lot more narrow and our right back overlaps a lot more than our left back. 

 

But Maddison cut in so much in the last two games that he never really offers a wide outlet at all and, more than that, it leaves Castagne SO isolated that he's pretty much permanently pinned back for fear of being over exposed if he loses possession out there. 

 

It goes from one extreme to the other. 

 

Ideally we want Perez or Lookman to be that player who can do both, tuck in to the midfield to help create that overload but also move out to create width and help facilitate the overlap coming from RB. 

 

And most importantly, to actually play at RM in the defensive shape. 

 

Maddison is then free to actually play in the centre of the park where he should be without neglecting any defensive role he has in the team. 

I agree, but needs must at the moment. 

 

I ideally like Perez and a Riccardo back in tandem. For all the stick Perez gets, he has a good partnership with Riccy.

 

Personally, Lookman is a liability from a defensive point of view and add very little going forward. 

 

If Perez isn't fit, I'd have Albrighton back in the side against the better sides to give us more balance. 

 

However hard to leave out one of Maddison, Tielemans or Maddison at the moment, I would be tempted to let KDH play as the DM rather than being in Soumare 

 

 

 

Edited 13 December 2021 by coolhandfox

[coolhandfox]

8 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

Didn't realise we had signed prime Zinedine Zidane.

 

Outrageous flick!

It was a beautiful move all around, to be fair. 

 

Maddison on form and playing on instinct is one of the best AM in the league despite all the stick he got on here over the summer months. 

[StriderHiryu]

Just now, coolhandfox said:

It was a beautiful move all around, to be fair. 

 

Maddison on form and playing on instinct is one of the best AM in the league despite all the stick he got on here over the summer months. 

Surprised it's not being talked about more. How many players in the league would even attempt a pass like that? Not even KDB does things like that, even if he's by far the superior player.

 

It's reminiscent of Bergkamp or Zola. 

 

Also as @Dahnsouffpoints out, it's just a beautiful all round team goal. We've been poor this season, but seeing our team score goals like that is still had to process. Didn't think we'd ever have a team as good as this in terms of a fluid attack.

[Finnegan]

23 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

Didn't realise we had signed prime Zinedine Zidane.

 

Outrageous flick!

 

Is it too cynical if I suggest he was trying to just dink one in to Daka and overhit it? 

 

[coolhandfox]

3 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Surprised it's not being talked about more. How many players in the league would even attempt a pass like that? Not even KDB does things like that, even if he's by far the superior player.

 

It's reminiscent of Bergkamp or Zola. 

 

Also as @Dahnsouffpoints out, it's just a beautiful all round team goal. We've been poor this season, but seeing our team score goals like that is still had to process. Didn't think we'd ever have a team as good as this in terms of a fluid attack.

All 3 of the second half goals took me back to our best form under Rodgers in the first halves of the 19/20 and 20/21 seasons.

 

I still think as a fan base; we are too quick to underestimate the injuries to key players like Barnes and Maddison, who, with Tielemans, turn us from an average PL side to a very good one when fit and on form.

 

We just don't have the backup players that can match their quality. 
 

[whoareyaaa]

28 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

Didn't realise we had signed prime Zinedine Zidane.

 

Outrageous flick!

 

13 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Surprised it's not being talked about more. How many players in the league would even attempt a pass like that? Not even KDB does things like that, even if he's by far the superior player.

 

It's reminiscent of Bergkamp or Zola. 

 

Also as @Dahnsouffpoints out, it's just a beautiful all round team goal. We've been poor this season, but seeing our team score goals like that is still had to process. Didn't think we'd ever have a team as good as this in terms of a fluid attack.

Mahrez?

 

I think between Youri and Madders we have replaced the Algerian prince

Edited 13 December 2021 by whoareyaaa

[Finnegan]

5 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Is it too cynical if I suggest he was trying to just dink one in to Daka and overhit it? 

 

 

Narh but in all seriousness, Madders has been loving the travella passes down that channel over the last few weeks. How many of those has he hit now? Four or five? 

[StriderHiryu]

 

1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

 

Narh but in all seriousness, Madders has been loving the travella passes down that channel over the last few weeks. How many of those has he hit now? Four or five? 

The elevation he gets on the flick is what makes the pass genius for me. He could have gone for a grounded flick or one touch pass, but that deft flick was a moment of pure class. Completely took out 4 players from the game.

 

Maddison's part in Youri's second goal also deserves a lot of praise. He controlled a fast pass in the air, took it down quickly and then unselfishly played in his teammate, even though at the time he had not scored yet. 

 

I've lost count of all of his good moments in recent weeks. He's right at the very top of his game and it's so pleasing to see. I feel like Luke Thomas and Dewsbury-Hall have helped him, they are good presses of the ball and both technically decent, feeding Maddison with much more of the ball.

 

Grealish is the better player than Maddison, but I feel like Maddison is unique among the English contingent and arguably unique in the entire league. He's the closest thing to a throwback number 10, and is one of the most imaginative players in the entire league. Players like Bernardo and KDB are better than him, but don't go for the same type of outrageous pass as he does. That type of pass is the sort that I've only seen from players like Zidane, Rivaldo, Bergkamp, Totti.

 

 

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, StriderHiryu said:

Grealish is the better player than Maddison

 

I honestly feel that when Maddison is in this form, he isn't. I almost feel like you're saying that out of obligation because you feel you're supposed to. I always find it a bit sad when FoxesTalkers get dragged in to the media narrative about our own players, I do think we tend to underrate some of our own stars because we believe what we're told about them by outsiders who see them only occasionally.

 

Grealish is one of the most over-rated players in the Premier League at present. Don't get me wrong, Maddison has been severely off form for a worryingly long time over the last year and he rightfully dropped well down the pecking order of English attacking midfielders. 

 

But Maddison in THIS form? Very few of them are near him for actual productivity and Grealish isn't close. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm not convinced Grealish has ever had a run of goal contributions comparable to what Madders has produced over this period? I just don't see the value in having the dribbling stats or the foul-winning stats that Grealish does if you don't do anything at the end of it. I had a running gag with a few of the people sat around me yesterday who were impressed by ASM. And I laughed and said, sure, it looks really impressive but watch his end product every time. It peaked when he skinned half of our team, got in to the box in the second half and then sliced a short hilariously in to the kop. 

 

It's Adama Traore syndrome all over again. Being a dangerous ball carrier means nothing if the product isn't there. Grealish doesn't have the vision or the passing range or even just the simple desire to play in his team mates and surrender the glory that Maddison does. If we had both at our club I'd pick Madders right now every time over Grealish.

 

The one thing Grealish DOES have over Maddison is the unwavering self belief that stops him having the same kinda slumps that Madders had before this run of form and probably makes him more consistent, I'll give you that. He's also, if we're honest, a better athlete who's less prone to recurring injuries. But as a playmaker? Narh.

[Fox92]

He's superb when on form. Just needs to be more consistent.

[Bryn]

No accident that pass, knows exactly what he's doing.

[StriderHiryu]

13 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I honestly feel that when Maddison is in this form, he isn't. I almost feel like you're saying that out of obligation because you feel you're supposed to. I always find it a bit sad when FoxesTalkers get dragged in to the media narrative about our own players, I do think we tend to underrate some of our own stars because we believe what we're told about them by outsiders who see them only occasionally.

 

Grealish is one of the most over-rated players in the Premier League at present. Don't get me wrong, Maddison has been severely off form for a worryingly long time over the last year and he rightfully dropped well down the pecking order of English attacking midfielders. 

 

But Maddison in THIS form? Very few of them are near him for actual productivity and Grealish isn't close. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm not convinced Grealish has ever had a run of goal contributions comparable to what Madders has produced over this period? I just don't see the value in having the dribbling stats or the foul-winning stats that Grealish does if you don't do anything at the end of it. I had a running gag with a few of the people sat around me yesterday who were impressed by ASM. And I laughed and said, sure, it looks really impressive but watch his end product every time. It peaked when he skinned half of our team, got in to the box in the second half and then sliced a short hilariously in to the kop. 

 

It's Adama Traore syndrome all over again. Being a dangerous ball carrier means nothing if the product isn't there. Grealish doesn't have the vision or the passing range or even just the simple desire to play in his team mates and surrender the glory that Maddison does. If we had both at our club I'd pick Madders right now every time over Grealish.

 

The one thing Grealish DOES have over Maddison is the unwavering self belief that stops him having the same kinda slumps that Madders had before this run of form and probably makes him more consistent, I'll give you that. He's also, if we're honest, a better athlete who's less prone to recurring injuries. But as a playmaker? Narh.

I don't see Grealish as a playmaker, but more of a wide forward / creative wide player. He's more like Mahrez / Barnes than Maddison in terms of playstyle. Grealish is the better 11, Maddison the better 10. You could have both players in the same team, well unless your name is Gareth Southgate.

 

For me Maddison is a genuine number 10 in the Serie A 90s / 2000's sense of the position. In modern football that sort of position doesn't really exist, hence him being shifted around, but his quality is undeniable.

 

Grealish for me is the overall better player because he's been more consistent for a longer period of time. In current form Maddison is clearly better, and if he could maintain this form for the rest of the season he could certainly be considered the better player, especially given Grealish's form given his big money move. Can he keep that consistency for the rest of the season? Let's hope so!

 

Maddison is current at 5 goals and 5 assists for the season, which is very impressive. And stats don't even tell the full story, that flick for Daka's goal doesn't count toward either stat, and yet was a moment of world class brilliance.