Maddison

[Buzzell]

England don’t deserve him.

[hebangsthedrums]

7 hours ago, DanNDH88 said:

Trent, Walker, James, Foden, Rice not world class then? 

First two yes, rest no not for me.

I've never taken to Madderz as a personality, but him not being selected is outrageous. 

[Foxdiamond]

There has always been a tendency to overrate England only to come up short when it counts. Golden generation and all that blah. Madders certainly deserves another go but Southgate has got the blinkers on.

[Ric Flair]

7 hours ago, Sampson said:

Why is it robotic? Why is it sad? Why does any country need to “mean” anything to you? Why do you need to *feel* any connection to a set of imaginary lines on a map to play a football game in which you represent them?

 

What’s the difference between a player who didn’t grow up supporting Leicester or not from Leicester like say, Kasper Schmeichel, Wes Morgan or Jamie Vardy representing Leicester to a great level for many years than someone representing Ireland when they’ve never visited there and didn’t know their grandparent who came from there?

Maybe they are good friends with their teammates and enjoy the working environment. I remember Wes Morgan once said he loved the players and made lots of great friends playing for Jamaica. I can guarantee he rarely visited there and felt little connection to the country before playing for them. Doesn’t mean he still didn’t enjoy his job or make great friends or have a good time representing Jamaica.

 

The only difference is some weird traditions we give internationals in football. Especially in the UK where England has very little actual meaning as a legal entity and is essentially just a cultural “country” than a real one. Even though people in Liverpool are probably a lot closer culturally to people in Wrexham or Dublin than the people of rural Devon (I mean they even basically speak in Scouse accents in Wrexham).

 

It’s just a job at the end of the day. Find it really weird people demand that footballers should have some loosely defined “sense of attachment” to a place to play for them in international football, especially when they really don’t care about it in club football.

Not specifically their job is it, they are employed by their clubs who pay them. International football is seen as the highest recognition and is still the nostalgic greatest honour even if its not financially beneficial to the players any longer. I suppose in that regard the affiliation is what might be needed for these players to remain consistently motivated to hit those marginal gains. 

[foxile5]

I don't want to wade into the current debate too keenly. 

 

My only takeaway is that if I were James Maddison I'd be sorely unhappy and probably be looking at the international stage with disdain. What more could he do this year? What more could he show? 

 

Poor form from Southgate. 

[FoxyLeon]

I can understand why Southgate isn't yet sold on him.

His consistency of performance needs to improve, that's the reality, to get into a top side.....And despite what the Southgate haters say, under Southgate, England have become a top International side.

 

If it was all about numbers, why did Pep choose Grealish over Maddison?

 

Whenever I watched Villa play with Grealish, he was pretty much beating his man or winning a free kick every time he had the ball. Maddison has to keep getting to that level consistently, to break into the England side. Too often he still has games where he looks completely off it, but his consistency has improved this season.

 

I think his biggest problem, is his lack of flexibility in terms of the position he can play. Foden/Grealish and to a lesser extent Mount can play in a front 3, as 10s or as 8s....Maddison hasnt convinced me to be flexible enough to play in a wide range of positions at that level.

 

Plus you have the issue that Kane isn't the most mobile forward. Maddison is neither quick, nor can I recall him beating players with the ball at his feet.

I don't have a problem with Southgate picking players that play well for England but not their Clubs, it makes a bloody change for it to be that way.

[sacreblueits442]

On 24/05/2022 at 18:58, st albans fox said:

Grealish hasn’t payed enough because of where he’s gone

 

If players move to ‘big clubs’ and get dropped because of rotation, then players may think twice about signing for   big clubs - that won’t suit the FA commercial dept who need as many players as possible to be with big clubs …

...it's not rotation but indoctrination!!!

  Liverpool were doing this 20 years ago or more. They get the player in and coach him in the way they want him to play. After a year he has learned the ropes and fits perfectly into their system. 

  Just take a look at Mahrez, little game time when he went to Manchester City,but he is now a fully integrated player.

[Chelmofox]

19 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...it's not rotation but indoctrination!!!

  Liverpool were doing this 20 years ago or more. They get the player in and coach him in the way they want him to play. After a year he has learned the ropes and fits perfectly into their system. 

  Just take a look at Mahrez, little game time when he went to Manchester City,but he is now a fully integrated player.

And it has a 100% success rate?

[FLINTHAMFC]

13 hours ago, MPH said:

 

so who exactly is picking and choosing who they pick for? 
 

might sign up to play for Brazil if that’s the case.

Are you saying it is not possible for players to play for countries they are not born to?

 

 

[Sampson]

It’s a shame they never give out PL Player of the Month awards in May for some reason (despite giving one out in August which is also only half a month), else he’d surely be a show in to win it.

[Ric Flair]

6 hours ago, FoxyLeon said:

I can understand why Southgate isn't yet sold on him.

His consistency of performance needs to improve, that's the reality, to get into a top side.....And despite what the Southgate haters say, under Southgate, England have become a top International side.

 

If it was all about numbers, why did Pep choose Grealish over Maddison?

 

Whenever I watched Villa play with Grealish, he was pretty much beating his man or winning a free kick every time he had the ball. Maddison has to keep getting to that level consistently, to break into the England side. Too often he still has games where he looks completely off it, but his consistency has improved this season.

 

I think his biggest problem, is his lack of flexibility in terms of the position he can play. Foden/Grealish and to a lesser extent Mount can play in a front 3, as 10s or as 8s....Maddison hasnt convinced me to be flexible enough to play in a wide range of positions at that level.

 

Plus you have the issue that Kane isn't the most mobile forward. Maddison is neither quick, nor can I recall him beating players with the ball at his feet.

I don't have a problem with Southgate picking players that play well for England but not their Clubs, it makes a bloody change for it to be that way.

And yet Southgate picks players that completely contradicts your post. Where's the consistency from Connor Gallagher of ESR when he got some games, or Saka?

 

There's a misconception that Maddison is inconsistent when actually the two times his goals and assists have dried up under Rodgers was after injury issues. The same can be said for many a successful player, the key is that they find their form again. Maddison has gone over three quarters of a season as the stand out attacking midfielder in the country, how much more do you need to see before he deserves a spot RIGHT NOW. Don't forget this isn't a pick a player to represent your country for a whole season, it's about recognising current achievements and form and giving them opportunities to help integrate them in to the team.

 

You mention Jack Grealish who is a fine example, he was electric last season but really it was only last season he was head and shoulders above the fairly inconsistent performance levels he'd shown previously. Did that mean he didn't deserve a call up? Ironically Southgate was reluctant to play him when in the form of his life and he's had more game time for England on the back of his move to Man City where he's been a cheerleader most of the season and pretty pony when he has played. He seems trapped in what to do at the minute in his game, he's stopped driving at opposition, and started dallying on the ball too long. Maddison wipes the floor with him on current form.

 

The system that Southgate plays is ideal for Maddison as well which is either a 3-4-3 or 3-4-2-1.

[breadandcheese]

From a Leicester perspective with a world cup smack bang in the middle of the season, it's quite good Southgate doesn't pick him. Gives him a rest mid-season to protect the hip and hopefully have a barnstorming end to the season.

 

And I do understand why Southgate hasn't picked him. I know Maddison's stats are great but I can't remember him dominating a game or dragging us to a win against one of the big teams. Against the smaller teams, he is brilliant, no doubt. But in the biggest games, he needs to rise to a level where he dictates the play. 

[Pliskin]

Jack Grealish gets caught crashing his car whilst pissed = gets picked.

 

James Maddison gets caught as a casino and at the darts = off the field antics aren’t in line with England’s image. 

[Ric Flair]

31 minutes ago, breadandcheese said:

From a Leicester perspective with a world cup smack bang in the middle of the season, it's quite good Southgate doesn't pick him. Gives him a rest mid-season to protect the hip and hopefully have a barnstorming end to the season.

 

And I do understand why Southgate hasn't picked him. I know Maddison's stats are great but I can't remember him dominating a game or dragging us to a win against one of the big teams. Against the smaller teams, he is brilliant, no doubt. But in the biggest games, he needs to rise to a level where he dictates the play. 

I mean he was very unlucky not to do so vs Spurs and Man Utd but for 2 goals in 9 seconds in the 95th minute and for VAR to inexplicably rule out his winner at Old Trafford. He was our best player at Stamford Bridge the other night, was magnificent away at PSV.

 

This season we've been a bit of a disgrace vs the big 6, but last year we beat every one of them at least once and Maddison was at the heart of several of those, scored a number of goals. If you look at his record his goals and assists vs the big 6 is pretty decent.

[The Horse's Mouth]

2 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Jack Grealish gets caught crashing his car whilst pissed = gets picked.

 

James Maddison gets caught as a casino and at the darts = off the field antics aren’t in line with England’s image. 

Has there been any real suggestion this is the case

[Fox92]

6 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Jack Grealish gets caught crashing his car whilst pissed = gets picked.

 

James Maddison gets caught as a casino and at the darts = off the field antics aren’t in line with England’s image. 

I don't think this is why one gets picked and one isn't tbf.

 

Grealish and Maddison are different positions. Any comparison of Maddison should be made against Mount.

[Pliskin]

8 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Has there been any real suggestion this is the case

No, I’m just trying to stir further hatred for Southgate. I have an unreasonable and unjustified level of hatred for the man.

Edited 26 May 2022 by Pliskin

[CrazyKopCorner]

7 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

No, I’m just trying to stir further hatred for Southgate. I have an unreasonable and unjustified level of hatred for the man.

Southgate seems to think he's on a morale crusade all of the time - Give me Terry Venables any day of the week over this twonk 

[MPH]

3 hours ago, FLINTHAMFC said:

Are you saying it is not possible for players to play for countries they are not born to?

 

 

No, not at all. That’s a total twisting of what was originally said. the phrase was for players to ‘ pick and choose’  who they play for. And that was what I think is a bit of a daft thing to say as that is clearly Not happening and neither will it.

[FLINTHAMFC]

Well it is under whatever guise they select. Through parentage or distant relations, naturalising etc

 

If the country wants a player and the player wants the country a way will and can be found. In essence it's league football. 

[CosbehFox]

2 hours ago, Fox92 said:

I don't think this is why one gets picked and one isn't tbf.

 

Grealish and Maddison are different positions. Any comparison of Maddison should be made against Mount.

As someone else has pointed out, Mount’s back up is Smith Rowe. He’s been dropped but Southgate is overcompensating with defenders in the squad 

[Jonezy]

I just hope this makes Maddison even more motivated and hungry to show what he can do instead of making him disillusioned.

 

Find it very strange, that when having 4 games Southgate do not want to try Maddison in the Mount role to see what he can do. 

[Collymore]

Just watching some of his skills, touches, goals and assists from this season. What a player. 

 

If he continues to develop I think he'll surpass Marhez in the "most talented player" argument. 

 

 

[Les-TA-Jon]

Blimey, he can’t even make it into the ‘missing out’ team 

[Sampson]

6 hours ago, Collymore said:

Just watching some of his skills, touches, goals and assists from this season. What a player. 

 

If he continues to develop I think he'll surpass Marhez in the "most talented player" argument. 

 

 

Mahrez is the only other player we've ever had who can match his ability to turn on and manipulate the ball in tight spaces.

 

Some of that dribbling and close control in that video is just mesmerising. I think I'd put him 2nd only to Mahrez when it comes to being our most technically gifted player and there's no reason Maddison can't surpass Mahrez if he continues to play like he has done this season.

Edited 28 May 2022 by Sampson